<p>Shrinkrap, I found your post very thoughtful and interesting. Our daughter won't qualify for financial aid, so we're looking at paying the $50k or sending her to one of the UC's (very good schools). I won't be surprised if she gets a good merit aid offer from UC, which will make the comparison even more skewed. But we're ready to pay for the liberal arts colleges (though it is scary for our finances) because we think she could have an experience there that would be great for her. We already know she thrives in small schools, and she has a year-round sport that she loves and can do more fully at any of the LACs on her list. So it's not the schools' reputations we're thinking about (which are good, though she's not applying to the fanciest schools) but the kind of experience she could have and how good a fit we think it is for her. It helps that she's naturally thrifty, unlike me, so I know she appreciates what we're willing to pay for her education and she expects to work and contribute too. If she doesn't get into the LAC's, I think she'll be happy at a UC even though the size is kind of intimidating right now.</p>
<p>Looking at all this... I don't know how to react to these postings. There are so many factors posters do not take into account. </p>
<p>I am NOT allowed to work during the (high) school year, and most likely during college as well. I worked two (minimum wage and stipend-ed) jobs the summer before senior year, and one stipend-ed job before junior year - all jobs were very hard to find.</p>
<p>My parents, while lower middle-class, have the means to at least contribute to my college education, as they promised all my life until recently. </p>
<p>I have gone to public school all my entire life, and have never been allowed to go to private school due to the underlying costs that are associated with private schools, even if I got a full-ride scholarship, which would have been very likely. </p>
<p>I am expected to go to at least UC Berkeley/UCLA, and will be shamed if I go to Davis (or a lesser renowned school). </p>
<p>I am willing to give up my first-choice (UC Berkeley) for a school that meets all my need.
...
Despite these factors, I am expected to take out all my loans.</p>
<p>Fine, life isn't fair. It's not, I agree. Yes, my parents are not required to pay for any of my college education, I agree. Even before my parents announced that they would not support me, I knew I had to do everything I could - find a job instead of an unpaid internship during the summers, loans, etc. </p>
<p>But when you're a high school junior, and all your life your parents have promised to pay for your college (and there had been no changing circumstances), then they tell you that you need to mortgage your entire education (including law school), it hits you like a train. You cry. You scream. You curse life out. </p>
<p>So posters can offer community college, can offer jobs, can offer marriage. But what if you can't do any of those things? You still live under your parents' roof. You still need to abide by their rules. They're still your parents. </p>
<p>So I am to lie, to work under-the-table jobs, to abandon my dream school, to give up a world-class education, or take out hundreds of thousands dollars of loans? </p>
<p>I am lucky that my EFC is somewhat low, and am in a good position to get scholarships, which might potentially take away from my financial aid. What about all the other students out there, especially those who are not as lucky as I am?</p>
<p>I understand the importance of getting a job and working for my tuition but I am applying to a school that costs $35,000 a year plus another $10,000 for room and board. My parents arent rich but make too much money to even be considered for financial aid but I am on my own. I wont get any financial support from them. I applied for FAFSA and got NOTHING!!! Basically I would be better off if my family was poor and gotten at least something from the government.</p>
<p>Calreader we are apparently in the same boat. My d's choice schools are not chosen because they are fancy but becuase they will help her get the most out of this experience (and my husband would say the same about his car) . My d has gone to the same school for 14 years and she is one of 89 in her graduating class. She has LOVED it there. She has been a great student ( but not college confidential great), and so we are also doing our best to hunt for merit aid at less challenging schools, and with a little success ( 18k/year at Mills for example ! ). Also we went to Scholar Days ant UC Davis and their honors program seems like a reasonable way to transition into a mega school. Threads like this will help us sort it out.</p>
<p>Kids, you guys write like this experience is brand new and none of the older generation have experienced anything close to the angst of this problem..... </p>
<p>c'mon. It's just your turn for life to toss you lemons that's all... waaay back when some of us made a sour face and others made lemonaide... </p>
<p>What's hard to resist jumping on is several of you have your sour faces on before you've even tried. Maybe your life (and many others before you) isn't going to be the easy road. Maybe you'll split time between a job and school. Maybe you'll take 6 for 4, but at the end of the day you'll have something. </p>
<p>Or why do you want to go to college anyway? </p>
<p>It's not a new thing, it's the same thing again and again, some folks got it easy, others have to go on an increditble journey to get there and some sit and blame circumstances for their sitaution because it's easier.</p>
<p>Parents have a responsibility to make certain that their kids can fend for themselves in the real world. That means training to be able to get a decent job, that means financial support, that means emotional support, and yes, in this era, it means higher education.</p>
<p>Higher education is a cost that should have been figured in when one makes the financial decision to have a child. I don't see any parents complaining about having to feed, clothe or house their kids. College is just another (albeit big) cost. It's a cost of having a child, just like housing, food or clothes.</p>
<p>I was going to pay full fare but only because DD does not the above attitude. If she does, I don't feel oblige too.
Parents don't have to pay for college even if they can. Parent's obligation is up till the age of 18.
Funny, my family did not pay for mine. I don't even think about hating them. I'm damn proud that I'm self-made.</p>
<p>I have to follow my parents' rules until I'm 21 (and I do not turn 18 until almost halfway through my freshmen year). Does that mean they're obligated to pay for me(even first semester of college)? No.</p>
<p>"I have to follow my parents' rules until I'm 21 "</p>
<p>Is that because your living at home?......covered under their health plan?......paying for you in some way?.....oh.....</p>
<p>I don't understand why parents who have to means to pay(or least contribute) for college choose not to. To teach them a valuable life lesson? Of what, eating cat food for the next 10 years of your life after getting of your night shift?</p>
<p>CalReader- not a lot of purely merit $ available at UCs, there is the Byrd from your HS, some UCs offer alumni scholar $, the Regents-which is hard to get, then there are some combo need/merit like the smart grant dependent on GPA plus math/science major PLUS need. I would not assume regents at UCs unless the SATs are near perfect.</p>
<p>It should not be automatically expected that a parent with means must fund their child's college education. BUT, they should not expect their child to recieve need based aid that they would not receive otherwise. The fact is, most parents do contribute and if the children of parents who cannot afford the full price of tuition are competing with a student who has artificially inflated need, this is absolutely unfair.</p>
<p>Granted, it seems from previous posts that the situation is most likely more personal between the parent and student and not a scam to get need based aid, but the fact still stands.</p>
<p>byan, I don't get your posts -- you wrote I have to follow my parents' rules until I'm 21 - but then you also wrote that your parents aren't going to pay for your college. You also wrote I am NOT allowed to work during the (high) school year, and most likely during college as well </p>
<p>When you are 18 you are legally an adult and you don't need to follow your parents rules. If they want you to follow rules in exchange for financial support, then you can agree to to follow those rules. But if they aren't paying then there is no reason whatsoever for you to "follow their rules." So of course you can get a job while in college. </p>
<p>You said your EFC is low. If your parents are cooperative in filling out the FAFSA then you will get a good financial aid package from UC. Although neither of my kids opted to attend UC, they both applied & were accepted to various campuses and all the financial aid awards we saw were quite generous. They had grant aid, work study, and loans.</p>
<p>My son is now attending a CSU and supporting himself. Obviously it requires work, but it certainly is not impossible. </p>
<p>You should apply to whatever colleges you want, seek both need based aid and merit scholarships, and then go to whichever college you can afford. If that means a college that your parents don't like, and if you are willing to attend a more expensive college that they prefer, then tell them they need to make up the difference.</p>
<p>Very interesting thread ...easy to who is the child and who is the adult...notice I didn't say parent. Some of you show your immaturity. Your parents didn't calculate college into their mind when giving birth. College is a PRIVILEDGE...not a right.</p>
<p>To NYU in particular....let's see where you stand in 20 years, will your tune change? I started investing for my kids the day they were born, guess what colleges have increased faster than any other time in history, it is hard to project how much you need to have. Also what happens when the baby is an "OOPS" baby, should they not have it because they can't afford to save.</p>
<p>To clock,
I went to college (undergrad and grad) on scholarships, grants and loans that I re-paid for 10 years. Guess what I never ate cat food, never worked grave yard shifts. However, I was able to buy my own car, 1st home , have 3 children (opened their college accts), and open an IRA acct.
OOPs forgot to say my h and I paid for our 200 person wedding reception.</p>
<p>Mom couldn't afford it, as it happened Dad walked out on us and she had to re-start her own life...so stop feeling so entitled life throws curve balls!</p>
<p>"I don't think it is any body's business what a parent does or doesn't do for their kids."</p>
<p>Wow. I was sitting back on this post, but I find this incredibly offensive. Where is your line, Opie? Okay, mommy wants a new car instead of helping S prioritize/focus and feel like he doesn't need to work full time along with attending full time school... Then mommy wants new breasts instead of helping S pay for his dentist so the son can, again, concentrate without the aching pain of a rotting tooth in need of a root canal. Then mommy wants a new shopping center instead of shelling out a fraction of the price to help her offspring out in whatever other area that would make her CHILD's life so much better. Don't have kids if you don't want the best for them. I believe that the people who just said that it wasn't their business what screwed up, abusive things were happening in my home were wrong. I'm not saying that not paying for college is abusive, but many people in this thread seem to be ignoring the core of this post. When you TRULY have the means to pay, but won't, it isn't always about a slacker kid. Sometimes (more often than many want to believe) parents are detached and selfish. A parent shouldn't be expected to give up his/her ENTIRE life, but when the kid is hard-working and could benefit from a challenging academic situation, and the issue is a face-lift or the child's future (and esteem!!), can anyone say that it is okay to pick the face lift? I really believe that some of the posters here are naive. Sometimes people who haven't had brutally harsh family lives (or have massive denial) forget that life isn't rainbows and cupcakes for all. Curmudgeon suggested that peeinthesink chat with his parents. Is that a joke? If his parents made those choices, do you really think that the situation is that simple? </p>
<p>Also, I'm semi-annoyed by the "hard time make better people" statements. Yeah, sometimes they do. Someone who gets raped may end up stronger after he/she deals with it (extreme example, I admit). Is it still okay? No. Teaching your kid responsibility, like, "okay, pay for what I can't pay" or "pay for your food, laundry, every day needs," is not comparable to putting your kid in a situation where he/she needs to work 40+ hours a week and still maintain a competitive courseload. Sure, the kid may end up more determined, but probably over-stressed and also bitter that the new car is more important than his happiness. But I always wanted my kids to believe that I wouldn't be there for them too. /sarcasm</p>
<p>Also, 2 years of community college is still only 2 years. Where in this scenario did the parents magically decide to help out for the final 2 years where the kid will still not receive adequate finaid? 2 years of debt is still overwhelming. And, without loans (which, as we've covered in this thread, are NOT likely to be adequate), not necessarily manageable. </p>
<p>Also, working through grad school is not the same. Grad schools may not even require more than a class a semester.</p>
<p>Also, at Bulletandpima, your personal example is irrelevant. Sorry. If you have already re-paid over 10 years, your situation probably doesn't apply to the financial options now. Also, you admitted that your Mom couldn't afford to pay your way. You probably didn't feel like your mom was choosing other things over you because she didn't have the OPTION to pay for your college education. Whether it was true or not, you likely convinced yourself that she would have paid if she could have. If your mom was rolling in the dough, you'd probably feel pretty hurt that you were so low on her priorities. In my opinion "life's curve balls" shouldn't be hurled at the child by the parent.</p>
<p>In responce the the UMass thing,</p>
<p>That's just what UMass told me. No one in my school got into the Honors College.</p>
<p>My 24,000 in loans consists in a 3,500 Stafford Loan and a 20,500 private loan in my name. I'll be taking those out pretty much every year.</p>
<p>Oh, and UMass would have only cost $4000 a year less because as was pointed out, I didn't qualifty for scholarships due to lack of MCAS. The way I see it...$16,000 may be worth the difference between UMass and Bard College.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sometimes (more often than many want to believe) parents are detached and selfish.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree. And assuming that their decisions are nobody else's business enables them to be so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In my opinion "life's curve balls" shouldn't be hurled at the child by the parent.
[/quote]
I like the way you sum it up. </p>
<p>Too much hand-holding & spoiling can easily create a kid who feels entitled to everything under the sun. And that pampered kid will likely be unable to hit life's curve balls. Likewise, a cold-hearted parent who can provide some well-deserved help, but doesn't, can easily ruin the relationship & model very selfish behavior to his kids. </p>
<p>I just hope we're finding the right balance in our household.</p>
<p>Treetopleaf,</p>
<pre><code>I am sorry that you believe that. Obviously, you have had times in your life to feel that way, but to categorize parents as a whole is unfair.
</code></pre>
<p>For all of my kids I have held their hair as they vomitted in a toilet. Stayed up late to help them finish a project, made cookies for school parties, chaffeured them countless times to the movies, sports, friends house, piano lessons etc.
I am the last person to get new outfits, I do not own 1 pair of shoes that cost over 50, yet my d has plenty.
My mom could not afford to buy me a car, but she gave me love. I bought my s one because he deserved it (good grades and works...also didn't care what kind as long as it had 4 tires)</p>
<p>As a parent we are in charge of raising self sufficient adults. I wasn't given a rule book, thus, I had to make some hard calls which might have been seen at that time as selfish, but until they pay the mortgage, car pmt, food, utilities, cable (for their rooms), cell phones, etc. they will have to deal with it.</p>
<p>Go ahead call me selfish, but I wouldn't change one thing I have done, including waking up every 3 hours for many years to feed and change them.</p>
<p>
It wasn't a suggestion and it dang sure wasn't a joke. It was a "prescription". It's what needs to happen. I wasn't suggesting it would change college financing. I was telling the poster that it might change his life in much more important ways in that. The attitude he expressed is poisonous. It will rot the flesh off his body. Is that clear enough for you now?</p>