The issue in that story wasn’t just that the child opted to join the military per se…it was that he joined as an enlisted Marine which the admins and some parents of boarding school classmates felt was “a waste” considering his HS academic record/SAT scores.
Also, according to older neighbors and older HS alums who attended during the '70s and early-mid '80s, the service academies weren’t very highly regarded by the most academically elite students on average back in that period due to negative perceptions about the military/military career due to the fallout from the Vietnam War.
This was one reason why when an older neighbor who graduated from my HS in the mid '80s turned down admission to MIT with a full FA package to attend Annapolis so he could increase his chances of being assigned to submarines upon graduation, his father was furious and most HS classmates from his year and the '70s/early-mid '80s regarded him as being very unusual and in some cases, “absolutely nuts”.
According to the early-mid '80s HS alums, most of the classmates who ended up attending the service academies tended to fall solidly in the middle of their graduating classes, not the top…especially those who were contenders for admission to schools like MIT.
Very different to the early-mid '90s to the present or according to much older neighbors, perceptions before the '70s when the Service Academies were regarded on par with and sometimes more elite than the Ivies/peer elite colleges. And those who were admitted to the Service Academies in my graduating class and after tended to have records/scores which overlapped with those admitted to Ivies/peer elite colleges.
To be fair, my mom probably would have reacted the same way as the OP. She came from military. She hated what it did to her family members. Neither her dad nor her brothers came out of the military mentally healthy and her oldest brother is about to die from alcohol the same way her middle brother did. The military and the mental illness that runs in my family do not mix well.
Anyway, is this the same daughter who is a new junior and has no interest in colleges? And has an older sister that you consider a disappointment?
Maybe she just don’t want college right now for whatever reason and sees the military as an alternative to being a “screw up” like older sis.
But honest guess? This will go away in a few weeks. Let her be excited and have her explore the different branches, academies, ROTC, etc. If by Thanksgiving she is still babbling about it- then it would be time to take it seriously IMO.
I would cry and beg her not to do it. I am thankful to those who join and serve our country, but I would not want any child of mine being part of the military. I also am well aware of the challenges females face in terms of discrimination and sexual assault as I once worked with this population.
Have your D get in touch with an organization called Service Women’s Action Network (SWAN) before making any decisions. Have her ask for the statistics regarding women being mistreated and sexually harrassed and or assaulted.
Another possible path if one meets the higher physical and other requirements and is interested in flying choppers for the US Army is to enlist as a Warrant officer candidate in Aviation or as the Army puts it “high school to flight school”.
If one passes WOCS and Army flight school, one could spend one’s entire Army career focused on flying choppers and being part of the Warrant Officer Corps ranging from WO1 to CWO5. Minimum pay for a WO-1 is $2966.40 which is base pay and doesn’t include extras like aviation duty pay.
One of my friend’s English TAs has a father who joined an early version of this during the Vietnam War and had risen to CWO5 before retiring. Last chopper he flew was the AH-64 Apache gunship sometime in the '90s.
Incidentally, this was something I considered as a child until an older neighbor who was a chopper pilot during the Vietnam War showed me the minimum vision requirements which meant no dice.
That’s not necessarily true as the normal duties of the Coast Guard include the risks of combat not only in their normal duties(i.e. Fighting drug smugglers), but also active combat as shown in several wars including WWII when the Coast Guard served in some of the most intensive fighting zones…especially in the Pacific.
Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if they have also been involved in piracy operations as they’re the only arm of the US armed forces with unrestricted law enforcement powers. In fact, Navy vessels have Coast Guard personnel stationed specifically so they can make arrests of those on vessels suspected of maritime violations.
I wanted my daughter to go to the Coast Guard academy. She had a preliminary interview, went for a visit, but thought it was too small.
A friend just retired after 24 years in the Coast Guard, and she has a VERY nice life. She joined at 18, and went to Alaska so that became her permanent address (no state taxes). While she was in, she had two children, got a bachelors and masters paid for by the military, earned GI benefits so each of her kids got 2 years of tuition and 18 months of room and board allowance. She told me she never shot a gun after basic training. Her specialty was HR, so she was a whiz kid at all the benefits and how to use them. Now retired at age 43 or so, she and her husband (also retire CG) bought an enormous RV and travel all over, plus take little trips to Vegas, Oregon, DC whenever they want. They visit their kids in NC and WV where they go to school, and this year are going to Austria where their daughter is on study abroad. I think she will go back to work in a few years, and then she’ll get her retirement pay and her new job pay, plus health benefits for life, military discounts all over the place.
Anyway, it was a good life for her and she was never in danger. Most coast guard members do do a lot of criminal work because of guns and drug smuggling, but you don’t have to be on a boat if you don’t want to be.
We lived in a military area (thus my being friends with this woman) and about 20% of kid at graduation stood when they asked who was going into the military, either through ROTC, a service academy (we had one), or enlisting. Most were enlisting and this was at a suburban, college prep type high school. The ROTC and other military scholarships were pretty high in dollar value. There were also a bunch of local scholarships for the children of military members.
I’m very disappointed in the responses that resemble NIMBY. I have friends that are very pro-military, staunch conservatives, that also refuse to discuss the military with their own kids because well, they are their kids. Apparently the military is okay for other people’s kids?
My advice would be to discuss all the options with her. Research the branches, the academies, the salaries. Dig deep for the pros and cons, and there are many of both, just like all careers. If she is still interested, she needs to invest her time in getting the best ASVAB score she can…the higher the score the more choices and opportunities she will have.
My S got the highest score in our area the year he tested. Very smart kid. Not desire for book learning. Had many good choices. Strayed as far away from what I thought was the best for him – Coast Guard was my first choice (gotta love teenagers lol). Entered the USAF weeks after hs graduation, trained EOD. EOD !! Arguably the most dangerous job in all the branches. Washed out after a year and many attempts to pass. Once you wash out, the military gets to decide your next job based on your abilities and their needs. He was trained in Cybersecurity IT.
Fast forward 8 years…S decides to separate. Gets offers at six figures plus for engineering jobs. After six months with one company he was still being recruited by others and took another similar job (system engineer) with a 20% increase in pay and fantastic benefits, including tuition reimbursement to complete his degree. Hmmm, engineering degree while getting paid, no student loans, hands-on learning.
Other pros…S stationed at Eglin for a year (the taj mahal of air force bases) and had a blast at Panama City area. Spent two years in Japan skiing and exploring. Had other good bases as well. Grew to be a man with character, morals and dignity.
Cons…tour of duty in Afghanistan, lasted 8 months.
A big shout out to all the moms and dads who support their kids in their military choice!! And thank you all for your service to our country. Stand proud.
Lots of people here offering advice on a topic they don’t know much about. The stereotypical sergeant constantly barking orders at you is not part of a typical day in the military. It happens in some training programs, and in a few job specialties more than others, but for the vast majority of folks in the military, daily life & interaction with superiors & subordinates are surprisingly similar to comparable civilian careers. Interaction with other people in a typical day is a lot more like the cooperative & professional atmosphere in the movie “Hunt for Red October” than the first half of “Full Metal Jacket.”
I have a daughter who is considering the military, and I would be proud to see her follow that path.
Nor would I judge the whole based on a few obnoxious people you know. That’s usually them, not the military. They could be just as unpleasant if doctors, school teachers or in corporate.
D2 freaked me when she started talking military, because I knew she knew little about it, just the idea of a pretty fixed role in a highly structured environment. She wasn’t thinking about wars, crises and more. Even the CG can be sent beyond US borders.
Kids tend to only know a few careers they see or hear about. Sure, mil recruiters make it sound intriguing. The more mine heard about various other opportunities, the more she learned about herself. That took her in other directions.
I’d never beg and risk some auto insistence. I learned my kids respond better when more info is evenhandedly offered and they feel they are processing on their own.
And if she had joined, I personally would have encouraged her to an in house role.
When my oldest son began talking about joining the military, I went online and looked up the requirements for joining for each branch. I then set about to try to figure out how to make and my other 4 children unsuitable for military service. With my oldest, it was fairly easy. Although we were going to take him off his ADHD meds, we left him on for an extra year, as that was a disqualifying factor. In addition,he is color blind and has a plate and screws in one arm. Once I figured that out, I worked on how little he would enjoy basic training. My strategy worked. None of the other kids has expressed any interest, but I have ways to keep them out as well, primarily health related.
If your D can’t be disqualified or dissuaded, maybe have her try a boot camp type experience for a few weeks and see how she likes it. If she really can’t be dissuaded, try ROTC. My sons have a friend who’s in ROTC and when he graduates, he’ll be an officer in what one of my sons calls “The CHAIR force.” He will sit in a seat somewhere in middle America and track drones. He will be safe, hopefully.
I have to ask everyone…why can’t this joining the military option be one that is seriously considered…once the student understands all the ramifications of doing so?
We need good, qualified folks in our military…and frankly, we need women too.
Help your daughter get ALL of the information she needs to make an informed decision.
If she decides YES to a military career, please support her.
About the Coast Guard…I used to think this was a pretty low risk service too until someone I knew who served in the Coast Guard let me know about all the conflicts with drug runners.
Is the military actually good about handling sexual assault now? Because from my outside, totally non-military affiliated perspective, they seem to be terrible about it. And fiercely resistant to implementing external handling (i.e. outside chain of command) that I believe Europeans have.
I’d be fine with anyone joining the military. I think it’s patriotic and a good thing to do. And our military and our country needs their service. Except for a woman I’d be very concerned about the sexual assault/abuse aspect.
Ok, just did a google search wondering if I’d see an article headlined “military sexual assaults down” or “strong progress on military sexual assault.” Instead I saw “Sexual Assault Reports in U.S. Military Reach Record High: Pentagon,” which a spokesperson says is a sign that their systems are working. In the article below “58 percent of victims experienced reprisals or retaliation for reporting sexual assault.”
This thread made me physically sick. Those of you who have freedom every day but won’t support their child serving their country are the definition of NIMBY! What an elitist attitude! And the sexism in this thread is eye opening to be sure.
My DS decided on 9/11 at the age of 11 he wanted to serve his country. Planned his entire high school career to get an ROTC scholarship and got it. He has been proudly serving as a Navy officer for 5 years. I could not be more proud of him. He has made MANY sacrifices to keep you all safe. You have no idea.
But I guess the NIMBYs are fine with that as long as their precious jewel does not have to serve. And I know many enlisted personnel and officers - they are some of the finest people I know. If someone has military in their family and they are not good people then I suggest the family look inward at causes.
@techmom99 Hopefully you and your family will never need the services of the National Guard or any other military-based assistance. Ensuring that your children are not medically qualified to serve our country is appalling to me. I cannot imagine sabotaging any dream, military or otherwise, that my child might want.
And to further disrespect those who are serving or have served by calling the United States Air Force such a ridiculous name you should be ashamed and apologize. While my S might sit in a chair securing you and your family’s future, he didn’t always do that, he went to war for you and us, our country, he served in Afghanistan. My nephew did four, yes FOUR tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan before he was 25 years old. My father, grandfather and great grandfather all served. If my D wanted to serve I would be proud. To imply that they are somehow subpar compared to your children disgusts me.
It as been mandatory for several years for sexual assault cases to be handled by a higher level of command. Do not listen to distortions on the news. Are there issues? Sure but there are on college campuses too. Every single suicide attempt, suicide, reported sexual assault etc. is included in published stats. I believe the number of unreported cases of sexual assault is far lower in military than colleges.
This thread has been disheartening from ways to make kids ineligible for military service to absolute avoidance of any risk of danger. This plays right out the danger of an all volunteer military and that is that it is a paid protection by the elite, not that different from those in the civil war who paid others to take their spot in the draft.
To OP - again, I do advise looking at officer paths. There is a big difference. Or, as someone noted, technical fields like IT or avionics can lead to big salaries after only an enlistment or two and the education benefits through tuition assistance and GI Bill or outstanding.
Ask questions and see to know more. Have your child talk to several service members of different branches including hopefully someone who does the desired job. And definitely slow roll the process to arrive at a good decision but slow roll is definitely different than avoid or completely discourage service from a position of ignorance.
Putting all of our collective opinions about military service aside for a few moments, what would I do if this was MY daughter?
I would give her the same advice that I would about any college she was looking at:
do your research
find out what the admissions requirements are
consider your post-college/post-military job prospects. Would those be better if you left the military WITH a college degree? If yes, then…
consider an ROTC scholarship. Lots of colleges offer them.
consider a military service academy, but those are really hard to get into, so ROTC might be a better & more accessible option.
consider having an “informational interview” with someone who is IN the military right now (someone who is not an extended family member) or someone who is a veteran. For example, you might know someone who’s in the Reserves. Have your daughter talk to someone who is NOT a recruiter and get his or her take on what it is REALLY like. I would give my kid this SAME advice for ANY career that she is considering. She wants to be a doctor? Talk to a doctor and find out the good, the bad, and the ugly. She wants to be a computer scientist? Talk to someone who does software development for a living.
Consider also the hiring boost given to military veterans. In the entire defense contracting industry, for example, veterans are given preferential hiring status over civilian applicants.
Lastly, I will offer this as “food for thought.” A member of our extended family went the traditional college route and got a degree in engineering. After a couple of years, he decided that he hated it and wanted to go to med school. He took the extra prerequisite classes and applied. But also decided to apply to join the military as well. His entire family thought he was nuts. They were totally disappointed. Thought he was going to get shipped off to far off dangerous places and die.
The military basically paid for him to go to med school. He is now one of THE top physicians in all 4 branches of military in his specialty. He’s an excellent doctor. He’s really good at what he does. Makes a nice robust annual income. And he provides excellent medical care to active duty and veteran service men and women all the time.