<p>Am I understanding this correctly? At many of the top schools, it looks like preference is given to a "legacy", as well as to "first-generation college" applicants. Does this mean that a child of parents who graduated from state colleges has a disadvantage when applying to top schools?</p>
<p>It really depends on the school. At ND, for instance, where I'm a legacy, 25% of the incoming class is reserved for legacy children. At MIT, where I'm attending, all being a legacy gets you is a final read through by the director of admissions just to make sure they didn't screw up. They usually don't.</p>
<p>Not being a legacy at the colleges you're applying to will in no way hurt you (or your child, if that's who you're posting for). For comparison, it'd be the same as not being a scholarship athlete or something. Yes, those kids will probably get in ahead of you or your child or whoever it is I'm talking to. Can we really say, though, that the fact that your not being an amazing athlete is hurting you, though? Not really. You just don't happen to have that characteristic. Those kids will take someone's spot, yes. Just try to make sure it isn't yours.</p>
<p>People will probably disagree with me on a few points, but the general gist is
a) it varies by school and
b) at the vast majority of elite schools, a lot of applicants are NOT legacies, so don't worry about it so much. Focus on those aspects of your application that you can control.</p>
<p>The info about colleges also gives the adcoms a good idea as to the type of background the child has. When mom went to med school, a private lac, and dad has 2 masters and a phd, it can be surmised that the child's environment is stimulating academically. Not always, I know, but usually, and with other info it can paint a good picture of the student's life. On the other hand, someone whose parents are not college educated, that is extra info too.</p>
<p>Many people feel that this info is intrusive and not any of the college's business, as they are evaluating the child, not the parent. It can make a difference in borderline cases. A B student in challenging courses with non college graduate parents, is looked upon differently than a kid whose upbringing shows a plethora of opportunities including well educated parents and who is not taking advantage of them.</p>
<p>I can understand about the legacy part, but what about preferences given to "first generation college" applicants? Does this mean preference is given to an applicant if neither of their parents went to college? Wouldn't this result in a disadvantage then to an applicant whose parents did? Look at Yale's application criteria according to collegeboard, for instance. Preferences are given to both legacies and first years.</p>
<p>Yes. First generation is something given somewhat of an advantage. How much is going to be determined by other factors in the mix. This is generally a situation for colleges that are highly selective.</p>
<p>Any advantage that first generation college students get due to checking a box on college apps is totally wiped out by the advantage that students with college-educated parents had all of their lives</p>
<p>The advantage of having parents who are comfortable around college educated people (consequently are likely to show up at parent-teacher conferences, etc.), who know how to get to college; who speak standard English, who view college as something attainable, who can help their kids with homework and college applications; who encourage their kids to aspire to college, whose kids may get legacy advantages at the parents' alma maters-- all give students with college educated parents a big advantage in getting to college themselves. </p>
<p>I'd never wish to have traded my college educated parents for the slight tip factor that one gets (at the most selective colleges) if one has parents who haven't gone to college.</p>
<p>agreed, legacy is more of an advantage at some schools compared to others. first-gen college student on the other hand is an advantage anywhere you apply, especially if you're a non urm first gen college student...</p>
<p>"first-gen college student on the other hand is an advantage anywhere you apply,"</p>
<p>No, it's not an advantage anywhere you apply. Many colleges don't consider things like that.</p>
<p>Also, being first gen college student means that in general, you have to figure out the ropes mainly all by yourself of how to get to college. First gen college students don't know about the importance of, for instance, taking honors and AP classes in h.s., and may even think it's best to take the easiest possibly courseload in order to get very high grades.</p>
<p>They may not realize either things like the difference between community college and 4-year colleges, and if they are low income, they may think that college would be unaffordable for them.</p>
<p>People who grow up with college educated parents tend to have no clue about how much they know about college, and how much support they got to attend colleges when compared to students whose parents didn't attend college.</p>
<p>The only reason that I know how difficult it is for first gen students is that I've mentored many of them, and saw that info that I thought was common sense was new info for them even if they were extremely ambitious and hard working.</p>
<p>Okay, then if all other things on 2 applications were equal, preference (at least at a school like Yale) would be given to a first-generation over an applicant whose parents attended a state college? Just read today where Wake Forest is eliminating their SAT/ACT requirement. Makes me wonder, are there any good colleges left anymore that are simply looking for academically bright students who may not add to "diversity" rankings and may have parents who attended state schools? I'm sure I sound frustrated but college admissions seem to have become a game of chance no matter how bright or college-ready a student is!</p>
<p>There is nothing 'simple' about college admissions for a variety of reasons. However, of course there are many good colleges that are looking (if not 'simply') for academically bright students whose parents attended state schools. Most state universities (many of which have national and international reputations for excellence) fit that bill. And many private universities do as well. Yale -- or HP, Stanford, MIT and the like -- are an altogether different matter. There are no formulas that guarantee admission into these schools, and that includes being a legacy or 'first generation.'</p>
<p>@Northstarmom
that's an extreme generalization based upon a few of your observations. however, i see your point. most first gen college students probably come from low income families (considering their parents didn't go to college) and are probably naive when it comes to college admissions. therefore, i agree that most first gen college students are less likely to take advantage of their high school education and set themselves up to gain admittance to a prestigious college. However, I know personally an affluent white student whose academics alone were not enough to gain them admittance, however they were a first generation college student and were admitted to an ivy league school. I'm not saying first generation college student was the deciding factor, I'm just saying that in this case it certainly tipped them over the top and allowed them to gain acceptance at a college they would not normally have been able to.</p>
<p>"However, I know personally an affluent white student whose academics alone were not enough to gain them admittance, however they were a first generation college student and were admitted to an ivy league school. I'm not saying first generation college student was the deciding factor, I'm just saying that in this case it certainly tipped them over the top and allowed them to gain acceptance at a college they would not normally have been able to."</p>
<p>Since you can't read the admissions officers' minds, you don't know if his being first gen tipped him in. However, you are right that it may have tipped the student in, and if that happened, that's fine with me even though my kids and I lacked such tip factors.</p>
<p>Even an affluent first gen college student still lacks advantages that many relatively low income students with college educated parents have. College educated parents usually are far better able to make sure that their students get good secondary and elementary school educations (which may mean the parents' personally supplementing educations provided by weak schools). College educated parents also are likely to value college educations, and to encourage their students from a young age to aspire to that.</p>
<p>College educated parents also are more likely to speak proper English, to be able to help with homework, to value hobbies like reading, and to support and do many other things that would help their students become college bound.</p>
<p>Parents who lack college educations may not value college educations, and may even discourage their kids from such aspirations. The parents, for instance, may fear that if their kids become college educated, the kids will become ashamed of their families and avoid being with them. I've mentored students whose noncollege educated parents did many things to try to get their kids not to attend college or to drop out of college.</p>
<p>"Okay, then if all other things on 2 applications were equal, preference (at least at a school like Yale) would be given to a first-generation over an applicant whose parents attended a state college?"</p>
<p>Yes, all things being equal, in virtually all cases, a first gen student would be preferred over a student whose parents didn't attend college. The exception might be, however, that all things being equal, a student whose parent attended Yale may possibly have an advantage over even students who are first gen.</p>
<p>However, for all I know, the first gen student may still have an advantage. There probably are far more Yale legacy students who apply to Yale than there are first gen college students who do. Yale legacies have the great advantage of parents who can put them on track for Yale from a very early age. Consequently, there probably are far more qualified legacy applicants than there are qualified first gen college students applying to Yale.</p>
<p>Yield probably also is higher for legacy students. For a first gen student to go to college-- even a local state college -- is very intimidating since the student is forging a new path for their family. To be traveling a distance to go to one of the world's top colleges may be so intimidating that the student would prefer to stay home and go to a second or third tier school. </p>
<p>Yes, I have seen Ivy-accepted first gen colllege students posting on CC who were considering doing exactly that. I've never seen an Ivy legacy posting about considering turning down an Ivy to go to a local second or third tier college.</p>
<p>I am with Northstarmom.</p>
<p>Anyone know anything generally about the advantage of being a legacy at the University of Maryland, College Park is? Do they give any preference? </p>
<p>Just wondering.</p>
<p>It is unusual for public universities to give preferences to legacies. I know for a fact, that the University of Colorado and California don't. Unless, of course, there are buildings with your name on the campus in question. In which case, all bets are off ;)</p>
<p>Nope no buildings with my name on them. </p>
<p>I was just wondering since all 4 of my grandparents, both my parents, 1 aunt, and 2 uncles went there.</p>
<p>When I was following the U of Washington forum posts, there was one guy who heard that he was admitted WAY before the rest of the out-of-state kids who applied when he did got answers. The unusual thing about him was that he had a family history like the one described above, plus cousins currently going there. I think he would have been admitted later anyway but that they were being nice to him because of his "legacy" status.</p>
<p>The weight legacy has at any college depends on its policies. Do ask. Schools often are open about their legacy policies, particularly if you talk to alumni relations. I know my friend was told that her girls had such preference at Ohio State which is an enormous state school. But then her one daughters app was flagged. Though she did get in, it seem as though the admissions office did not know or care that she was a legacy.</p>
<p>I wonder if it hurts to be a legacy if the alum's never donate anything...and I don't mean mega gifts to provide a building....I just mean run of the mill annual fund giving......what do you think? My D is a legacy 3x over at a well regarded private university and she may apply as they offer the program she wants.....but I am wondering if it will hurt rather than possibly help (they say they do consider the legacy aspect) her chances........</p>
<p>khs--I cannot believe that it would hurt if you are a legacy w/o alum giving. First and foremost, I think that test scores and gpa are the first tool for evaluating admissions. (I know I may make some uncomfortable with that statement, but I happen to think that this is where admissions start and they have to start somewhere!) Then layers of the app are peeled away--ECs, HS attended, rigor of courseload, legacy, athlete, etc. And, I am sure that we all know of legacies (whether they had donor parents/grandparents or not) who were not admitted. My gut feeling is that most of those just did not have the grades/scores to be admitted. Being a legacy at a school to which a student is applying can only help, in my opinion, not hurt. Now, if you list that you are a legacy at a particular school different from the one you are applying, you have to wonder if the admissions people wonder if you are also applying at that school and if you are just wasting their time. Unfortunately, parents' education is on almost every college app (and I am one of those that feels it is no one's business as the student is applying not the parent) so avoiding the legacy issue is almost impossible. Just my 2 cents!</p>