I should have added above, he will most likely major in Economics with a view to getting an MBA at some point. Engineering and sciences are not his thing.
@AlmostThere2018 , sadly, he’s ruled out LACs, with the possible exception of Lafayette. He likes other schools on his list much better.
@MYOS1634 , thanks. I’m a little unclear still as to what he should do in regards to Penn State. Would he apply directly to Smeal as a pre-major, or is it better to just apply DUS, and then try for Smeal later? Maybe I should create a post in the Penn State forum. If he applied for the summer session, do you mean for next summer, 2019?
Binghamton has a good reputation for business. He didn’t hate it, but it’s very much a case of it didn’t interest him. However, it does have a real campus and good outdoor access.
I will have him look at Creighton. I don’t think he should apply to more than ten schools, but the second part of the list is fluid.
At this point, Penn State and Syracuse are his two top choices. He will be happy if he gets into either of those. However, I am a little concerned with the fact that he is really leaning towards econ/business now, so we need to do more research to see how these colleges are in those areas.
Have him look at Montana State University. It might be a safety or match for him with his stats, but at the very least he will get the in-state tuition rate with his numbers. He’ll be able to take the bus to the ski hill (most of the students there have seasons passes) and there is a little shop on campus that will sharpen and wax his skis or snowboard. The bus also goes around town too. It’s not a “party school”, but the kids have a lot of fun and keep very busy. The cafeterias are pretty much full-fledged food courts - no shortage of options. If he likes hiking, you’ll need to put bear spray on his packing list, though.
If he wants to get into intelligence work, George Washington U in Wash DC.
I would look carefully at schools in the Maryland/DC/Virginia area that have connections to the NSA and CIA.
A lot of those jobs at the NSA are math related though, but some are not.
(this may not give him enough outdoor recreation, how important is that to him?)
CU Boulder and western schools like Montana State may not really have a good connection to federal government intelligence jobs, but ask about placement , if thats what he wants. I don’t think CU Boulder is very good with learning differences so much.
CU Boulder requires that he choose between Arts and Sciences or the Leeds School of Business,
and Leeds is more expensive for tuition than the Arts and Science programs like history or economics. CU Leeds school of Business also requires a higher GPA and more math to complete a degree over there.
Also U of Denver, (DU) might be a better fit for a history and international studies major compared to CU Boulder.
DU has the Josef Korbel school of International studies. I think its better than CU Boulder for history
and economics as well. CU Boulder is strong in fine arts, teacher education, performance music, physics, math,
chemistry, biology and engineering. Business at CU Boulder is up and coming, rising in rank. DU is the social science go to school in Colorado with strong law and business programs too. DU being in a business city of Denver, has great job connections, but CU Boulder is also connected pretty well to Denver jobs.
DU is located in a nice part of Denver, on the light rail system about 7 miles south of lower downtown. Its a private school. Its closer to downhill skiing than Boulder,
(Boulder is 90 miles from Copper Mountain and Keystone. DU is about 75 miles to the better ski resorts. )
Both schools are very outdoorsy with rock climbers and biking. DU has the best swimming pool and hockey/skating rink in the state of Colorado, but Boulder has nice recreation centers too.
Thanks for the recent suggestions. Again, LACs are out. Yes, the idea of intelligence is still interesting to him. He’s very good in math, but stats is a different beast. I will discuss adding a school in the DC area with him. Maybe another Wild West school too.
Boulder’s history department is much better known and higher ranked than DU’s, and the university as a whole has more high-ranking departments than DU does. That said, both will serve undergrads well, and their main difference will be of vibe and setting.
Lindagaf, one of the things I don’t like about the Penn State application (at least the way it was a few years ago; I have no idea if they have changed this policy) is that they don’t allow you to choose an alternate school within the university if you are not admitted to your school of choice. You can choose an alternate campus in the event that you are not admitted to main campus, and you can choose to be considered for summer session (the summer prior to freshman year) if you are not admitted for fall, but you can’t choose the business school as your first choice and arts and sciences or DUS or whatever as an alternate - it’s a one shot deal. This leads to a real quandary for kids like your son - he wants business and he has a good chance of being admitted based on his stats, but you just don’t know and you don’t want to get shut out altogether. I did hear that Penn State is going to Common App this year so maybe there will be changes on the app.
However, I have heard of multiple kids who applied to Smeal, were denied, then called admissions and asked to be considered for DUS and were then admitted undecided. So many kids, in fact, that I don’t understand why they don’t just offer this as an option on the application. It would certainly save admissions a lot of time on the phone.
Also, keep in mind that if your son does get admitted undecided, he can easily switch to business at the end of sophomore year as long as he maintains the required gpa (3.3 or 3.5 or something like that) and completes the required courses. No one is officially a business major at PSU until the end of sophomore year anyway, and even the kids who are direct admits to Smeal must satisfy the above requirements or they will have to change programs. So it’s not really a disadvantage to apply to DUS. It’s not like Michigan, for example, where direct admit to the business school is essentially the only path to a business degree.
I don’t know much about Syracuse, but business at PSU is very well regarded.
I would drop Evergreen, it will not be his tribe at all, and add Colorado State which will be a bit more down to earth than CU Boulder. UPS and Gonzaga are excellent suggestions. Lewis & Clark may be worth exploring. WWU may be too liberal hipster but it may not. Very outdoorsy but will miss some of the sports rah rah he might crave.
UVM is a solid option and checks all the boxes, and should give merit. If urban is ok, look at Seattle U, will check many boxes as well.
Only about 10% business applicants are admitted to Smeal - all others are admitted to DUS. It’s only worth it if they have a shot at Sapphire (a business honors program for freshmen and sophomores)… Only Sapphire students are true Direct Admits in the common sense - every one else is premajor. So if Smeal is the goal, applying DUS makes the most sense. Checking summer session means a less competitive pool - not sure how it’d square with Smeal direct admit potential.
They use weighted GPA with emphasis on math, science, foreign language, and look at the total number of AP/DE/IB + Honors. The bubble chart (look it up) is pretty old and students should remember that 2/3 is GPA+ rigor, 1/3 sat score, and see the range in relation to major selectivity. Still good guidelines.
On the other hand he could be interested in the International Political Economy major, with a Global Security minor (and, if he has enough AP credit, another minor). If he’s good at math he could look into SODA which is basically stats and CS applied to political science and economics. The advantages of applying for these majors 1)he’d be in, 100% sure 2)he’d have a shot at Schreyer but even if he doesn’t get in, he’d be eligible for Paterno Fellows, which is basically integrated into Schreyer for freshman year.
Thans so much @MYOS1634 , very, very helpful. You are the best! it’s quite confusing understanding how larger universities, with all their schools and colleges, work.
Yes, his GPA is a big weakness. His guidance counselor will be addressing his learning disabilities in the Letter of Rec, but that’s not going to make up for the GPA. He does have good course rigor. By the time he finishes high school, he will have 4 IB courses, 3 AP courses, and most of the others are Honors, with only a few standard level courses in high school.
If your son was interested in the FBI or DEA or elite state police forces which all have counterintelligence and counter terrorism units (for state police) and cyber crime units ug school rankings is of no importance. A law degree or cpa is really useful. It’s more based on entrance exams, physical exams and background checks. Along with interviews.
Any of the cu schools would be fantastic options. Just don’t smoke weed.
My roommate at a state flagship and law degree from a commuter law school is a leader in counter intelligence at quantico. But he had a pristine personal background. And zero drug use. it is asked about.
And remember @Lindagaf, that a strong first semester with lots of A’s can help offset those lower grades from the beginning of high school. Schools really do scrutinize senior year grades and course selection. A C senior year can be deadly, while a C freshman year can be excused.
@Lindagaf while UVM has its share of crunchy granola, I suspect that a lot of the ski, snowboard, hockey, lax types of which there are many, do not consider themselves especially crunchy or granola. That said, I suspect UNH is less so.
UNH has a real mix like any flagship uni. But overall impression is a more pre professional, outdoors prep and less of. “Granola or crunchy” vibe. Though plenty of kids at both schools don’t fit those molds at all.