<p>"It sounds like my DD could do Bio Eng in schools like MIT or Columbia first and then medical school at Harvard, if she could get in, of course."</p>
<p>If medical school is the final aim, majoring in engineering may not be the wisest choice. Medical schools appear to focus entirely on GPAs and it is much more difficult to keep an very high GPA in engineering programs.</p>
<p>Whoa! Warning!Warning! A $25k EFC estimate from the Princeton calculator would not be considered low income for any of the low income full ride initiatives I know about, and trust me - I'd know. ;)</p>
<p>We need data or we're just whistling in the wind. </p>
<p>
<p> [quote] We are of a low income family. I bring home a salary, DD does tutoring and babysitting, and DS cut lawn in summer for neighbors. We probably could not pay much even if we only ate two meals a day. We feel really bad because my DD is really a decent student. .....We heard that it is very difficult to get into Pre-med with a "full ride"...... We did that Princeton financial estimator thing once. It said that we need to pay about $25000 a year.
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<p>There are no free-rides to MIT, Harvard, Yale , Princeton with a $25K EFC. Zero. None. We need to know that your expectations are reasonable and if you can't or won't pay your EFC, then other than your child borrowing huge sums of money (never a smart choice) , need only schools are out. And that is all Ivies. We need to know where you are coming from with your finances. </p>
<p>If you are looking for a school that will pay all or substantailly all your EFC, then you can revise that list to include only Merit aid schools. And when you do that, there are just a very, very few merit full-rides.Your D will be competitive, but there are 100's just as competitive looking for every full-ride spot at a top 100 school (Uni or LAC). </p>
<p>It can happen and it did for my D but you'll have to readjust your aim - as a family, and get ready to work your rear off -as a family.</p>
<p>Edit: D was not seeking a full-ride. We were in hopes of enough merit to get down to our in-state costs at a Texas state school.</p>
<p>I suggest that you check out further Ohio state because its honors college does provide a small college experience for top students. This is an example of why it's important to look through the web site thoroughly of colleges, and when it comes to public universities, also look for info on honors colleges and learning communities, which provide a liberal arts college atmosphere for a small group of highly motivated, high stat students.</p>
<p>Such programs usually are designed to keep the state's top students in-state, and provide excellent academic opportunities, small classes, and excellent scholarship support.</p>
<p>Here's a description of the honors college:
"Outstanding students know there?s more to getting an education than course work, exams, and grades. As an Honors student at Ohio State, you can benefit from special living and study environments designed to complement your course work and take advantage of a wide array of opportunities outside the classroom planned to further enhance your learning.
Explore Scholars.</p>
<p>Each of the thirteen programs is centered around a particular theme or area of study. Students in the Scholars Program live together their freshman year, attend select classes together, and have the opportunity to be a part of a close-knit community. The Ohio State Scholars Program is designed to complement your academic life by offering you a wide variety of learning experiences outside of the classroom.</p>
<p>The Honors Collegium provides resources and support for talented, purposeful undergraduates who are driven to make a difference in the world. The Honors Collegium serves 20-30 students from each graduating class, providing a close-knit environment that supports each individual?s growth, development, and goals while challenging him or her to excel. In addition, the Honors Collegium?s Scholarships and Fellowships program provides support and resources available to any Ohio State University undergraduate interested in applying for prestigious national scholarships and fellowships. "</p>
<p>Incidentally, if your expected financial contribution is $25,000, you would be considered middle income, not low income. Many families like yours with high achieving kids will send the kids to places where they can go to college supported by merit aid so that the family can save money to use for professional or graduate education. MIT, Harvard, places like that give no merit aid, so if your EFC is correct, your D's undergraduate education at such a place would cost you at least $100,000. Meanwhile, she may be able to go for free or much lower cost to places like Ohio State or solid liberal arts colleges like Earlham (Indiana) or Rhodes (Memphis).</p>
<p>Wow. great information. Bowing very sincerely to thank each of you. </p>
<p>Looks like our aim was too high both financially and school selection. I will definitely look into the honor college at OSU. Will have to pick some other major if a MD/Ph.D program takes 12 years to complete. </p>
<p>Within my peers and neighbors, I am of low income. In a good year, my base + bonus will be probably only at $120K and my wife does not have a job outside the house (does more work than me at office). </p>
<p>The HS has started seminar series for families of juniors. I am just afraid to ask too much question there.</p>
<p>BTW, we have been using the USnews's national ranking to pick our targets and we have not done any research on these LAC. Our understanding is that - only those who can't get into a national university go to a LAC.</p>
<p>You don't need an MD to do medical research, though it can be helpful if you are more interested in the clinical end. If your daughter is interested in bioengineering Rice university might be worth looking at. It has a nice residential college setup as well.</p>
<p>I'll echo others, getting mailings from schools doesn't mean they are really soliciting you, unless they are ones that specifically say you're being offered scholarships based on National Merit semi-finalist status.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Our understanding is that - only those who can't get into a national university go to a LAC.
[/quote]
LOL. Around here , that comment might start a war between the LAC'ers and the Uni-men. We don't want that.;)) Nope. That is not the case. LAC's appeal to many students for many reasons. Visit a couple in your neighborhood. How about Kenyon, Denison, Ohio Wesleyan? Who knows? She might like them.</p>
<p>Feel free to p.m. me. My D is following much the same career path, looked at many of the same schools, and is vacillating between clinical and research.</p>
<p>does graduate school look a student from an university differently than one from a LAC?</p>
<p>"Within my peers and neighbors, I am of low income. In a good year, my base + bonus will be probably only at $120K and my wife does not have a job outside the house (does more work than me at office). "</p>
<p>As of 2004 in Ohio, the median family income for a family of 4 was $66,734. For a 5- person family in Ohio, the medium income was a$67,300. For a 6 person family in Ohio, the median income was $62,129. </p>
<p>In West Virginia (where you used to live), the median income for a 4 person family was $52,292.</p>
<p>Figures came from here: <a href="http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/statemedfaminc.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/statemedfaminc.html</a></p>
<p>You are considered a relatively affluent family. Adding to that affluence is the fact that your wife doesn't work. In most families in this country, both parents have to work because they need the income, so the figures I listed above, mainly show the figures for 2-income families.</p>
<p>While where you live, you may be on the low end of the scale, you must be living in a very privileged community, with excellent schools, resources, etc. Colleges also will take this into account when evaluating your D, who'll be expected to have accomplished more than she would have if she had grown up in a truly low income ($40,000 or less for a family of 4) family in a community with weak schools, poor guidance counselors, few decent EC opportunities, etc.</p>
<p>My family has a lower one-income family and probably higher cost of living, but we still are considered privileged since our income still is above that of most Americans, and our kids had the benefit of excellent public schools. Paying our EFC would take a big bite of our budget, one that we don't feel we can afford, so we steered our kids to public universities and privates where they had a good chance of getting merit aid. That left many excellent options.</p>
<p>Older S went out of state to a public that gave him excellent merit aid (Out of state publics usually don't give good merit aid, but S was a URM with sky high scores, very desireable academic-related ECs, and an interest in going out of state to a place that attracted relatively few URMs).</p>
<p>Younger S seems to be choosing to stay in state and go to a public uni, and will get at a minimum full tuition merit aid, which our state guarantees to high stat students who go to our state's public universities. He could get some sweet merit aid going out of state and was recruited by some colleges ranked in the top 25 (including one college that flew him in and treated him wonderfully), but he doesn't seem inclined to take that route.</p>
<p>Like your D, S doesn't want to go to a huge university, but has found that the learning communities and honors colleges and other programs at our state's large publics can offer the kind of small classes and academically-enthusiastic students that he wishes to be with.</p>
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[quote]
The HS has started seminar series for families of juniors. I am just afraid to ask too much question there.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>BTW, ask all the questions you need to at these meetings. That's what they are there to accomplish. I bet you'll find five people come up and thank you for asking your questions after the program because they didn't know the answer either.</p>
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<p>LAC's of good quality have no trouble placing their grads in the finest grad/professional programs in the nation.</p>
<p>LACs are more likely to send students to graduate school than are places like Ivies and large public universities. That's because LACs are wonderful matches for students who love academics and things like research.</p>
<p>While students at places like HPYS are certainly smart enough to eventually get doctorates, they tend to value their ECs (on campus things like theater, music, writing for publications, intramural sports, etc.) as much as or more than the research aspects of their college experiences. Places like HPYS select from the overwhelmingly highly qualified applicant pool students who'll best create well rounded classes that include numerous, thriving campus extracurriculars.</p>
<p>I know that law and medicine were the most popular careers for people from my Harvard class, and I think that's normal for places like Ivies (though people do certainly go into other careers ranging from being college professors to social workers to journalists and musicians). At LACs, I think that a much higher proportion of students choose to become college professors.</p>
<p>I doubt that graduate or professional schools inherently value LACs over other kind of universities. What's most important is what the student accomplished during their education.</p>
<p>Look into Amherst - their FA is terrific and your D sounds like someone that they would love to have.</p>
<p>My son, who is a comparable student to your daughter, is applying ONLY to small LACs because he thinks they will provide the best leaning community for him. Others prefer a huge U or something in between.</p>
<p>I suggest you start visiting some schools of different types in your area. The tours and info sessions will help your D begin to figure out what she wants and will help you begin to figure out what questions you need to ask.</p>
<p>$120K is considered a rather high income in VT. I'm not surprised your EFC is $25K. This changes the equation considerably, but your D will be able to find a great college you can afford if you (and she) put in the time to build a good balanced list. Of the LACs I mentioned before, only Grinnell gives significant merit money.</p>
<p>Wow, again, this disussion is like someone just opened a new door in front of me. And I thought I have done an extensive research.. LOL.</p>
<p>Thank you all very much. One other factors in selecting only top name universities is the peer pressure. Most of the Chinese we know send their kids to these universities. If my DD does not get in one of them, I would "lose face".</p>
<p>Visit Denison and Miami of Ohio. They are not too far away, (I assume you are in the Cincinnati area, if you're talking about Indian Hill School.) </p>
<p>Denison offers merit money, and would give you (and your kids) a good idea of what an LAC is like. Miami of Ohio is a state school, much smaller than OSU, with an excellent honors program. Talk with someone in the career development office there...but I think the Miami honors program has a very good record for getting kids into med school. Even if these schools are not exactly what your kids are looking for, they will give a good feel for similar schools.</p>
<p>$120,000 annual income will not get you much of any need-based financial aid from any of the ivy or elite schools, unless you have other financial issues (like lots of other kids in schools that require tuition, medical $ issues etc.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
One other factors in selecting only top name universities is the peer pressure. Most of the Chinese we know send their kids to these universities. If my DD does not get in one of them, I would "lose face".
[/quote]
Time to decide which master to serve.;)</p>
<p>Doing research in the medical field usually means PhD. The top ten undergraduate schools which statistically maximize the likelihood of later earning a PhD in the biological sciences are:</p>
<p>Reed
CalTech
Swarthmore
U Chicago
Kalamazoo
MIT
Earlham
Harvey Mudd
U Sciences Philadelphia
Grinnell</p>
<p>Source: Weighted Baccalaureate Origins Study, Higher Education Data Sharing Consortium</p>
<p>Laserborther, I presume it is your D who is going to a college so what does it have to do whether you "lose face" or not.</p>
<p>Assuming your D's accomplishments continue as they have been , and she ends up a 1500+ SAT kid, 34+ ACT kid with great EC's, then you'll get the questions. Heck, we get the questions and we are English/German.</p>
<p>D still has kids at her school (Rhodes) that ask her where else she was accepted. When they find out what she turned down to attend some can't believe it. She calmly explains that she decided her career goals demanded a different choice. (Doesn't want to owe $300K getting out of med school. She feels it would limit her choices to only the big money-making jobs. That meant more to her then the opportunities lost. How much more? I don't know. )</p>
<p>vossron</p>
<p>I don't know for sure about the others, but Reed gives zippo merit aid, not even a token tidbit for National Merit Scholars. Great school though.</p>