<p>Iderochi, there is a big difference between division 1AA football and PAC 10, Big 10, ACC, etc football. The guys I know aren't interested in division 1AA football.</p>
<p>We looked and looked for a LAC sized school with Engineering. Tufts came closest, but my son's stats were very good but not good enough for Tufts. He wound up at a very nice State U. about 4 hours from home, with under 10,000 students, a grad program, a small, nice city and great breadth of programs. He got in EA and we continued to look for similar situation amongst the smaller LAC's but just couldn't find anything to beat the fit at the U.</p>
<p>If a kid wants engineering but not a tech school, there aren't a ton of mid range (i.e., non MIT level) fits out there. When we left him there last week, he looked around and said, "This is the place for me!"</p>
<p>Hope that attitude sticks.</p>
<p>Also, hope he is able to get, "lots of close, personal attention from sensitive and caring professors." I think the point about B schools and Engineering is more to the point on why the sex ratio is tipping at LACs.</p>
<p>"Which is the better predictor of success in the business world, achievement in sports or achievement in academics"</p>
<p>It matters what the business is. For some jobs, academics would be a better predictor of success. As an example, English teachers and copy editors to be successful on their jobs would need to have a strong knowledge of grammar and writing. Competitiveness probably isn't that related to success in their jobs.</p>
<p>There also are more ways of learning teamwork than through sports.</p>
<p>The following LAC's have dual degree enrollment opportunities in Engineering with Dartmouth College:</p>
<p>Bard College
Bates College
Bowdoin College
Colby College
Hamilton College
Hobart & William Smith College
Holy Cross College
Middlebury College
Morehouse College Mt. Holyoke College
Reed College
Simon's Rock College
Skidmore College
Smith College
Spelman College
Vassar College
Wheaton College</p>
<p>But dstark, there's an even bigger difference between Div. III football and Div. I-AA football. And I was responding to the comment that "no LAC is above D-3"</p>
<p>Idad, I looked at it briefly, but to do this one needs to jump through additional hoops. You need permission from the college. Most kids want to be admitted and know where they stand as freshman. You can go for example, to Rutgers, School of Engineering as a freshman, instate if you live in NJ, for less $ and walk out w a degree w some prestige too. You get the added bonus (I don't think it is a bonus to sit w 300 student lecture halls and get on a bus to get to class) of all the sports action.</p>
<p>Iderochi, OK.
Northstarmom, I'm sure the answer to my question is complex, but English teachers aren't business people.</p>
<p>"Which is the better predictor of success in the business world, achievement in sports or achievement in academics?"</p>
<p>Neither. Having the right parents....</p>
<p>dstark, You are right. I thought that you were referring to career success in general, not just in the business field.</p>
<p>There are many nonbusiness jobs that people aspire to, and for those people, LACs may help them be more successful (by their own definition) than might large sports-oriented universities.</p>
<p>Not everyone wants to be a big shot in business.</p>
<p>it's interesting this topic was made. it's funny because at my high school there is a severe lack of boys in the highest track. my class ratios are around 3:1, so i wonder if the gender gap starts before college. however, my high school brings in a lot of people in the highest track through a magnet system, and it seems as if my school may have more parallels to an lac (good art and music, smaller classes, less partyish) than the one high school where i think more of the boys choose to go.</p>
<p>Another factor, males are more inclined to make sports their only EC in high school. For many, it's the only thing that keeps them in school. Most will not be capable of participating at the collegiate level, and having nothing to fall back on, loose interest in education entirely.</p>
<p>This probably has little to do with the under-representation of males in liberal arts colleges, but the only reason I didn't go to an LAC is the price. I'm a male, fairly normal in most respects, and I like the idea of small classes and personalized attention, and I don't give a flying frisbee for college sports.</p>
<p>My S went to a new restuarant near CMU, Sunday before the first day of classes: There were 28 guys and no female patrons. Only girls were the waitresses. Your D's are going to the wrong schools! At least my S beginning to noticed the imbalance when 2 years ago he was blind to the opposite sex.</p>
<p>"Now, evidence is emerging that the gender gap is extending as well to flagship public universities, some of which have not had to deal with the issue. </p>
<p>At the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill last week, some trustees were stunned to learn that the freshman class was 58 percent female. Some trustees suggested that the university consider some form of affirmative action for men, though the university doesnt plan to do so....</p>
<p>But Chapel Hill isnt the only public facing the issue. While the university is still adjusting statistics, it appears that the next freshman class at the University of Virginia will be 56 percent female, up from 54 percent the previous year. The last time women made up no more than 51 percent of the student body there was 1991, and until 1980 women were in the minority. </p>
<p>At the University of California this year (system wide), 57 percent of California residents admitted as freshmen were women.</p>
<p>At North Carolina, it fell to Jerry Lucido, vice provost for admissions and enrollment management, to explain to trustees why affirmative action for men is not the answer.</p>
<p>Lucido said that he thinks many flagships have been immune to the gender gap because they have large engineering programs that have substantial majorities of male students. He said that institutions like Chapel Hill that do not have engineering programs and have more of a liberal arts orientation will see the same issues liberal arts colleges have had...."</p>
<p>From Inside Higher Education: <a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/06/03/gender%5B/url%5D">http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/06/03/gender</a></p>
<p>Most of you are ignoring the most important factor in a boy's life - a role model. With the dramatic rise in out of wedlock births, it means girls grow up with a role model but boys don't.</p>
<p>"Women in College: The Gender Gap Grows
by Mary Anne Feeney</p>
<p>...In October, the American Council on Education issued a report entitled "Gender Equity in Higher Education: Are Male Students at a Disadvantage?" The report, written by Jacqueline King, director of ACE's Center for Policy Analysis, examined the reasons why women currently outnumber men on college campuses. </p>
<p>King found that, despite the trend toward a greater proportion of female enrollees, there is no educational crisis among men. King acknowledged, however, that "there are pockets of real problems." </p>
<p>Her study showed that the number of male students in college has remained relatively stable since 1975, but the number of women rose from 5 million in 1975 to 8 million in 1997. King reported that, although more women are enrolled in both public and private colleges nationwide, "These statistics mask tremendous differences by academic level, age, race/ethnicity, and income." </p>
<p>The largest disparity is present among families earning less than $30,000, where 68 percent of college enrollees are women. "While both male and female low-income students tend to be less well-prepared for college male low-income students have some ability in this strong economy to make a decent living with just a high-school diploma," King said. As long as the economy is strong, fields like construction will continue to offer good jobs, according to King. </p>
<p>However, she said, "For women, the typical jobs for a high-school graduate are not nearly as good." Most jobs for women with high-school degrees are "pink collar," or service jobs such as retail sales that rarely pay above the minimum wage. "Low-income women are forced by the job market to overcome their academic disadvantages and pursue some type of postsecondary degree," King said. </p>
<p>Sue Bigg, Certified Educational Planner and Consultant, agrees. "Girls are going to college because their interests will lie in careers needing better-honed academic training. A boy can always work in a labor-intensive job in which he can make a decent living," she said. "</p>
<p>We tried but failed to get S interested in LACs. Tried to sell him on Pomona, Carleton and Macalester, to name three. He'd gone to a small high school where he was known by all the students and teachers. I thought he would want the smaller classes, the connectiveness, the opportunities to be a leader. Nope. He wouldn't look at them. Decided from the start he wanted a medium to big university. Ended up happily at Cal this year (35,000 students).</p>
<p>Just a thought... but I think some of this might have to do with how college admissions is changing - that kids are starting to look earlier and ED is such a huge part of the process.</p>
<p>Boys lag behind girls. I know a bunch of men who had rough freshman/sophomore years academically, but rebounded and did well junior & senior years. So if a guy has been doing well for a few semesters, you can probably talk college to him. But, when college stuff is getting pushed back into sophomore year (or before!), young men probably really feel out of the loop. The system, and the trend, favour those who develop earlier. It does not, however, favour those who ultimately end up to be the most mature. </p>
<p>If gap years became standard (in the same way that taking time off before law school is becoming more and more common), then my guess is that you would see more successful men in college and more men applying to college. My guess is that young men just aren't "there" yet when the college talk starts, so they tune it out. Unfortunately, they don't tune back in when they start "getting it" during junior or senior year.</p>
<p>Alrighty, Idad: so I started down your list, and went to Bard, Bates, Bowdoin and Colby's websites. Drilled down into Academics. Looked in Programs and Majors offered. Not one of those - NOT ONE - listed engineering.</p>
<p>Not in their interdisciplinary programs.</p>
<p>Not in their special programs.</p>
<p>How is a family supposed to know about these programs? Why would a kid visit a school that doesn't have their intended major on its list of majors?</p>
<p>Good grief. Ridiculous!</p>
<p>As a predictor of business success the correlation is with playing sports not watching sports. At a D3 school many hs athletes are able to continue participating while at D1, especially PAC 10 etc, if you don't have potential as a pro your can probably forget about playing on anything more than an intramural team. I would also suspect that the business success is more associated with hs participation than D1, big conference, participation where you are in essence a professional athlete who must struggle to fit academics around your primary responsibility, athletics.</p>