<p>Someone noted that many guys don't prefer LACS. Can it be that LACS may not offer majors that are popular with guys? For example, I rarely have seen a good LAC offer programs in accounting or even business or finance. I also don't see any LACs offering exercise science or Kinesthesiology etc. If your a math type of guy but don't want to major in math or science, most LACs don't have a lot of other options for you.</p>
<p>I would bet that if LACS put in business/accounting programs, they would significantly increase their male applicants.</p>
<p>I'd agree that the opportunities to participate in sports probably aren't any better at a big state school, and will in many cases be limited to intramurals. The sports/business connection is in reality more tenuous - Aggies tend to favor Aggies, etc.</p>
<p>I do think that big-time sports are a major factor in college choice for many young men. First, there's the exposure from an early age on TV - kids see Notre Dame, Tennessee, Michigan, Florida State, etc. on the screen every Saturday, not Reed and Swarthmore. For students who want the traditional college experience where game weekends are all-consuming events and multi-day parties, they are far more likely to associate that with a Division I school. Not to be overlooked is the post-college experience - attending a school without big-time sports means never being able to see "your" team on TV, never needling your co-workers about "your" team's victory over theirs, etc.</p>
<p>While these issues may matter very little to many students, I wouldn't underestimate the power of sports, even for those who are doomed to be spectators. A while ago I read about a study in which scientists measured testosterone levels of student spectators after a college football game. The fans of the winning team had significantly higher numbers, prompting one researcher to comment that he could easily tell who won the game without ever seeing the scoreboard. Clearly, even watching sports has deep roots for many people.</p>
<p>One illustrative example is the surge in Northwestern admissions a decade or so ago when their football team, a perennial loser in the Big 10, had a spectacular season and ended up in the Rose Bowl. Was it just the additional publicity? Did more students apply because they thought football games would be more fun if their team didn't get blown out every Saturday? Or was it just testosterone-driven? ;)</p>
<p>I had to laugh Itstoomuch! I was about to write in answer to the OP question: "They're all at CMU". Actually my son loved the LAC's he visited. I believe he would have originally preferred the smaller, well-rounded LAC environment. But the CS opportunities at CMU were just too attractive.</p>
<p>publicivy noted in response to adding business programs to LACS that, "they wouldn't be LACs."</p>
<p>Response: I don't agree. When I think of what makes a good LAC, to me, it is close student-faculty relationships, smaller classes, and strong liberal arts. Having a business major can still meet all these requirements. Who said that a major in business can not also require strong liberal arts requirements as well? If they can do with with Math, Physics, and computer science, they can do it with business and accounting. In fact, I would love to see a curriculum that does this.</p>
<p>Sports and books are tops at these two schools.Especially at HSC where football,baseball,lacrosse,and basketball are usually nationally ranked.Frats are big at both.Any guy who's serious about athletics and academics should visit these tremendous colleges.</p>
<p>Regarding post #24, I asked my older son about the 3-2 LAC engineering programs. He said, "why would I do that if I could stay at large engineering school X for 5 years and get a masters degree". I am not sure this is a general attitude but he noted the differences in the average starting salary of engineering school grads and those that have a masters degree.</p>
<p>I agree wholeheartedly with Roger (post #43). My S isn't as interested in the smaller LACs and I do think it is because of a lack of identity with big time sports. He once said to me, "I want a school where I can go back after I graduate and tailgate and brag about the football team."</p>
<p>Count me among those who say that a well rounded Liberal Arts education is the best foundation for life. My UG was Engineering -- four elective courses total. That said, there are many more good paying jobs in technical areas. (Or is that "well paying jobs?" If only I'd taken a second English course.)</p>
<p>taxguy - I was half facetious, half serious. I don't want to get hung up on classification, but I think of the distinction as simply a continuum between theoretical (or maybe better stated as "classical") learning at one end and practical career oriented at the other, with LACs orienting to the theoretical (classical). Thus, LAC (in general) would have physics, but not engineering, biology, but not a nursing program, math, but not accounting, economics, but not finance, etc. I think of the curriculum defining the LAC, not class size, student-fac ratio, etc. Maybe just the way I look at it.</p>
<p>I am fascinated to read these stories from parents of sons who feel "big time sports" is an important factor in their school selection process. It is as far from my experience as possible. Parents of daughters who are despairing of boys choosing their daughters' LACs as possible colleges, take heart. Neither of my sons cares in the slightest whether they go to a school with big time sports, and would in fact prefer to go to a school where there is no such thing. So they <em>are</em> out there!</p>
<p>With a son and daughter both in high school, I can see how high school classes favor women. First, more teachers are women. The girls for the most part sit quietly in their seats, raise their hands a lot, and are willing to stay up all night memorizing dates if that's what they are told. Girls are taught to be "good girls" and aim to please. These qualities help them get good grades in school, but don't necessarily transate to the business world where you need to think outside the box - not do formulaic essays. Most of the top students in our school are girls and have been for many years. However, at my job I often see very bright women sitting quietly in meetings waiting to raise their hands while the men are confidently expressing their new business ideas. I am not so sure that what it takes to get into college has a whole lot to do with what it takes to succeed after college.</p>
<p>My son is not looking for a school w big time sports either. I must say that when he discussed some of his college selections w his uncle, his uncle turned to us w a puzzled look. He let us know that games are a big part of college life. I almost felt ganged up on bcs his aunt's friend was overhearing the discussion and chimed in w full agreement. We find sports on the bottom of the list of importance. The 2 in the room that day besides us found this of primary importance. Go figure...</p>
<p>My son #2 is one of the ones that would like a sports program though he probably could not participate at the D-1 level. On him as an individual, he is more math and science oriented and of the LACs he has seen he likes Williams. I think it is because of the extensive math, science and sports programs. I guess that would put him into the generalized male group.</p>
<p>Catherine, oddly enough, this is part of the observation that led my daughter to choose one of the womens colleges, something she started out having no intention of doing. The young women there are not quiet, compliant, etc. and perforce become very accustomed to being the classroom and campus leaders. </p>
<p>The pressures towards compliance are not all internal, either. My D was asked in high school, "Can't you at least try to fit in?" "Fit in" meant not participate so much in class, challenge the guys' opinions, etc. She was having none of it.</p>
<p>Eagle79: I know little about engineering. I did ask at Reed while visiting and found that some students want both worlds, the liberal arts education and the engineering degree. Some of the dual enroll programs with schools other than Dartmouth do result in an MA degree as well, from what I understand. The only point I was trying to make is that it is possible to go to an LAC and be interested in engineering, Whether or not it is an attractive option is, of course, another matter.</p>
<p>You all, well some of you, have different sons than mine. He wanted a larger college because he spent k-12 in a relatively small private school that sometimes was suffocating. </p>
<p>Sports mean nothing to him. He made us leave at halftime of the USC-Stanford game during Parents Weekend his freshman year. Granted USC was up 41-14, and the Stanford band was behaving in a manner that bordered...never mind that's too complicated to explain here. Bottom line sports are irrelevant to him and hasn't been to a football game since his freshman year although he has an interesting Matt Leinhart story he likes to tell.</p>
<p>And btw, had he not gone to USC he would have gone to UNC with close to 60% female enrollment. I sure he would have enjoyed that.</p>
<p>I have never been so excited to apply to liberal arts colleges than I am after reading this post. </p>
<p>As a guy, I am interested in pretty much going only to a small lac, and a bunch of my guy friends share the same impulse (Haverford, Colorado College to name a couple). And, while I am an athlete (soccer), I feel that sports at a division 1 level will dominate my academic career, not academics. Plus, I live in NU Wildcats shadow, so the sports fan aspect isn't a factor. </p>
<p>I never understood the impulse to go to such a large school, anything above 5,000. It just isn't appealing to become that anonymous (from what I decipher about large university life). Plus I like knowing my teachers.</p>