<p>Princeton rejected my DD, perfect (2400) scores, 5 -5- AP's and many EC's. Harvard waitlisted.
No finaid request, white middle class valedictorian.</p>
<p>Just say'n' it happens.</p>
<p>esobay - only on an anonymous forum would I dare to ask such a personal question: why do <em>you</em> think she was rejected by one and waitlisted by another? I ask it respectfully. Any insight? Thanks.</p>
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<p>I looked up the page A3 story from the Thursday 12 June 2008 Wall Street Journal today at the library, and it is indeed interesting that Princeton says that in round figures it rejects about half the 2400-scorers who apply. The ongoing investigation of the role of ethnicity in the Princeton admission process is also interesting.</p>
<p>Coming quite late to this thread, but how could I refrain from responding to a tokenadult post about perfect scorers? </p>
<p>collegealum314 has made a very interesting point related to financial aid, with his hypothesized formula. I suspect that predictability of yield is a significant contributor to the rejection of 2400 scorers whose other qualifications are (at least) excellent, and suggest that it's possible that a top scorer might be rejected if the admissions committee members believe that the student will definitely prefer to enroll elsewhere. On a different thread, tokenadult posted a list of colleges, freshman class sizes, and cumulative number of students with SAT scores at or above various levels. I've intended to combine these data with the available yield figures for HYPSM+C and the pigeonhole principle (or something similar), to see what might be deduced--haven't done it yet, but think it will turn out to be interesting, just from a rough view of the numbers.</p>
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On a different thread, tokenadult posted a list of colleges, freshman class sizes, and cumulative number of students with SAT scores at or above various levels.
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<p>Here's the link to that thread, for people who want to follow along at home. </p>
<p>The reason it is anomalous for perfect scorers to be rejected (even though that surely happens) is that such students are RARE.</p>
<p>to emag</p>
<p><em>I</em> think DD was rejected by Princeton from the magic of AC's knowing she wouldn't fit in there. It was on the bottom of her sorted list of preferred schools and that may have come through on the essays. I'm not sure about that since I never saw the essays and don't know which had 'special' essays and which took the common app. I certainly didn't like the <em>feel</em> of Princeton when we toured it.</p>
<p>Perhaps same is true for Harvard. Don't know much about that one since it was the last on our whirlwind tour and I basically chilled out in the hotel and coffee shop!</p>
<p>I have NO real insight into why she was accepted or rejected, but I think she'll be happy at her choice!
And basically I was mad that we spent the $$ on the applications for P & H anyway since I didn't think we'd let her go to them!</p>
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<blockquote> <p>since I didn't think we'd let her go to them!<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Because of their expense?</p>
<p>If H/P rejects half of all applicants with perfect scores, would it not be interesting to know the racial/ethnic breakdown of the rejected?</p>
<p>The "defence" may not be an answer at all.</p>
<p>esobay, without knowing your D, or very many details about her, this does happen so often, doesn't it -- the unwitting communication of fit/"misfit" (imperfect fit)?</p>
<p>I've seen it with students I know quite well, in addition to my own D: waitlisted or rejected only at the schools which were frankly less appropriate than those that accepted her (and them), despite all of those students being at the high end of the accepted stat range.</p>
<p>Canuckguy, I myself don't have such breakdowns that you alluded to in post 128, but I'll just say that on threads over 3 yrs on CC (as well as personal knowledge), I've seen the following:
lots of non-minority perfect (and very high) scorers rejected;
several URM mid-range scorers accepted;
several URM high-end (but not perfect) scorers rejected</p>
<p>It is less usual for URM students to achieve perfect scores, while it does happen.</p>
<p>With perfect scores we though our D might well get accepted at one of the most selective schools (HYPS); she got accepted at all of them. She was shocked, we were shocked, GC was shocked. She is white, upper middle class (but checked the FA box), average athlete not recruited, no legacy status, tone deaf (not a musician), not Siemest or Intel stuff - just really good grades in tough classes, some volunteering (not enough to be a finalist for the Robertson at Duke), some leadership within her school but not earth shaking. Just dunno. Believe me, I'd like to figure out what the silver bullet was because I have D2 coming up the pike.</p>
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I'd like to figure out what the silver bullet was because I have D2 coming up the pike.
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<p>Geography, perhaps??</p>
<p>"I'd like to figure out what the silver bullet was.."</p>
<p>Given the way in the past you've described her intellectual curiosity, persistence, etc.-- not to mention, LOL, the G-word -- count on intellectual authenticity having been featured in her teacher recs. It would not have gone unnoticed. Teachers who flesh that out with examples get those recs noticed major in the admissions committee. Distinguishing oneself intellectually, beyond "grade-grubbing." will result in (often) a detailed profile of the student as student. The scores would have gotten her past the gatekeepers, but the classroom work was the evidence.</p>
<p>Attended a graduation this month wherein some of the extremely wealthy students earned perfect & near-perfect scores, but underperformed in class work. They will not be attending HYPSMC.</p>
<p>Epiphany, I agree. That's what's so interesting about students asking, How can I get into School A or B or C? What if I do this EC? If I get a 5 on the AP, will I get in? I find it sort of sad that kids are trying to portray themselves as intellectually curious, when you can't really fake it. I think that, in the main, who the student really is eventually shows through, and the ACs see that.</p>
<p>^ Bay is right, geography can be a help or a hindrance. It was a help for my D, although not as big a help as Wyoming might have been. </p>
<p>And Epiphany expressed much better than I ever could the importance of genuine intellectual interest. Such an obvious factor and so overlooked by so many. I actually nagged my D to be more involved in school activities, not wreck herself over papers and work more efficiently for her A's so that she could develop a real "hook." Yup. I've been a total idiot mom frequently through this process. Fortunately, I'm not that dominating of a parent. D1 blew me off and did her own thing, which was to essentially be true to her inner nerd self. So maybe beyond being intellectually curious, the trick is to have the courage to just go with that aspect of yourself.</p>
<p>Mammall, by the same token, parents who nag their kids to be more academic and less into ECs are also doing their kids a disservice. Those kids really don't want to wind up at a school of tippy top students, and they shouldn't try.</p>
<p>Boy, am I feeling philosophical: We should just let our kids be whoever they are, and the right college will accept them.</p>
<p>[Note: I'm full of it!! You should have seen me with S2, trying to "shape" him into the ideal candidate!]</p>
<p>esobay - thanks for the reply. Best wishes to your daughter!</p>
<p>My son who got a 2400 was rejected at Yale, Stanford and waitlisted at Harvard. Maybe he was a little too "well-rounded". Three season athlete, valedictorian, so on. His major "deficiencies" were his relatively limited service ECs and the fact that he spent his summers with his family rather than the panoply of summer activities that are available to buff the resume. </p>
<p>I've been telling my sons for years that perfect SATs and number 1 in one's class are "a dime a dozen" for these schools. Schools like Harvard are looking for future leaders with a focus rather than the well rounded scholar.</p>
<p>VeryHappy, Loved your last post. And do agree that we have to refrain from trying to shape our kids into some sort of ideal candidate. I'm having to fight off the urge to try that every day as D2 heads to ninth grade. I especially enjoy posts like yours that manage a bit of humor and self-mocking insight into the challenge of parenting through this business. No one really has it figured out, that's for sure.</p>
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I've been telling my sons for years that perfect SATs and number 1 in one's class are "a dime a dozen" for these schools.
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<p>True as to number-one rank in class, because there are more than 20,000 high schools just in the United States alone, but false as to perfect SAT scores, because those are rare. Valedictorians are at least two orders of magnitude more common than perfect SAT (or ACT) scorers. The top colleges can afford to be choosy in general, I agree. Thus any one selection factor, or even a combination of quite impressive selection factors, may not grab the notice of the admission committee at every college. </p>
<p>I guess it was just my way of letting my sons (and their mother) have realistic expect ions and reinforce the highly competitive nature of the admissions process.</p>