<p>Technically, I’m in EECS. I’m on the CS side of EECS, so I usually just say I’m in CS.</p>
<p>So the question for you is how many people started in Freshman CS and how many are still there assuming you are not a freshman any longer.</p>
<p>Diversity is important but I think Cal is far less diverse in terms of people you will meet than you probably think it is. Close relationships come from every facet and time periods of your life, the possibility of you meeting someone you can connect with is a crapshoot and the large numbers at Cal does not necessarily increase that possibility. I would say more importantly, would be the possibility of connecting with people who are great and will make something out of their life and with the more selective admission process at Caltech, you would have a better chance there than at Cal. Sure you might want to spend more time with people who have different interest that don’t stay in their room and code all day but you can go study abroad in exotic places, that might be a better option in terms of enhancing your experience of “diversity”. Don’t get me wrong, the bigger picture here is selecting a place where you will thrive intellectually first and foremost, if the other “soft” factors are so important, then it doesn’t matter where the OP goes, he can go to a party school and still get good grades, have a good job etc but I am pretty sure his intellectual development will not be as progressive if he did. Again, “diversity” is another overrated factor. Sorry if I sound elitist to those who come from party schools, it’s just a different way of looking at and spending time with your life.</p>
<p>Actually, I believe that the OP is in EECS, not CS. There is a difference here. CS you have to wait to declare until after completing the lower division courses, so nobody technically comes in as CS. EECS, on the other hand, is a major which a lot of freshmen declare right off the bat. I only know one person who switched out of EECS, but most of my EECS friends are people whom I met in upper-division courses, so if people did drop out, I probably wouldn’t have known about it, since I didn’t know a lot of EECS guys as a freshman. I think that in freshman year, a lot of people switch all over the place because they don’t know what they want to do. Some switch out of engineering, others switch into it. But I can’t give you a definitive number, so I am hesitant to offer any specific input on your question.</p>
<p>o0racle, I so strongly disagree with virtually everything that you have said, and I neither care enough nor have enough time to discuss all of it, but I’ll pick a couple of things:</p>
<p>“Again, “diversity” is another overrated factor.”</p>
<p>=> I would have said exactly that same thing a year ago, but after going through a period where all of my friends were engineers, my perspective has changed drastically. If you are a Berkeley student, then I encourage you to hang out at the CSUA (computer science undergraduate association) in Soda Hall for a little while one of these days. It won’t take you long to see why a healthy person needs some time away from engineers and computer programmers. I am very sorry that you don’t recognize the value of having a varied group of friends. That is your loss.</p>
<p>“I would say more importantly, would be the possibility of connecting with people who are great and will make something out of their life and with the more selective admission process at Caltech, you would have a better chance there than at Cal.”</p>
<p>=> While I’ve been at Cal, I have connected with big-shots of the technology industry, assisted a world-renowned computer scientist/engineer with his massively profitable research project, talked to a congressman, personally met two actors and a Giants player (Brian Wilson), networked with CEOs (most notably Jeremy Stoppelman), CTOs, and CFOs, and I know someone who will probably be a first-round pick in the NFL draft in two years. I have two friends who dropped out because their company started making incredible profit in their sophomore year, I helped another friend start a company. I have a research internship with IBM through which I have already connected with senior engineers and project managers. The people in Berkeley engineering are every bit as driven as those in the private schools.</p>
<p>I’d love to argue with you about some other ridiculous things that you said, but I have a lot of work to do.</p>
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<p>Given that readmission of former students who left in good academic standing is considerably easier than first time admission, this is not a particularly high risk move, since returning to school is a likely option if the company folds. Doing such a thing can be thought of like a longer term internship or co-op job than the usual summer or summer plus one semester.</p>
<p>Actual GPA in Berkeley engineering (and overall) is above 3.0 according to various sources (e.g. UC Statfinder); the policy with the 2.7 and 2.9 dates from the 1970s and 1980s, when grade inflation was less.</p>
<p>Do you plan to play any sports offered at Caltech ? You can play year around there ( there are many students play 2-3 varsity sports there ). While at UCB, even some club sports have only limited openings per year.</p>
<p>Here is an article about Caltech sports:</p>
<p>[Caltech</a> Athletics: The Official Home of the Beavers](<a href=“http://www.gocaltech.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/20110223mscsko]Caltech”>http://www.gocaltech.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/releases/20110223mscsko)</p>
<p>When people mention CS, they refer to MIT/Berkeley/Stanford.</p>
<p>Not many people know of Caltech. Although technical people do know them. Even in LA or Pasadena, if I say or mention CalTech to general population, they think of ITT tech. Or they think of something else. </p>
<p>So choice is yours. If you want more personal attention, then go to Caltech under the assumption that Caltech is at same rate as Berkeley(or if you don’t really mind paying 30k more). If not, go to Berkeley. You can’t go wrong either way. Personally I’ve seen many people who came to Cal over Caltech.</p>
<p>If you live in California or work in Bay Area, people will give you more respect going to Berkeley than Caltech, if not equally. Generally speaking, alot of people(general population) do not know of Caltech.</p>
<p>Indeed Caltech’s small class size may lead you to think it may give you more opportunity now, but when you go out in real world, CS is driven by Berkeley/Stanford graduates. You do realize that networking is important(school connection), right?</p>
<p>Less alumni means less opportunity.</p>
<p>You seem to know about the main differences. For engineering, the two are equal. Course variety is stronger at Berkeley, while class size is better at Caltech. Two caveats: one, class size really doesn’t matter all that much beyond a certain point. A lecture is a lecture, and even a class of 30 isn’t really that different from a class of 300, although the former “feels” more comfortable. In both cases, you won’t be getting much face time with the prof, nor will you be learning principally in lecture - most of your learning will be on your own, in assignments, reading, etc. The other caveat is that differences in course variety matter little if the areas offered aren’t within your interests. So you should try to figure out what areas you want to study and see which one has stronger offerings. Caltech may even be better for what you want to study.</p>
<p>Re: research, I think the difference here in % who do research is more a function of the type of student body. Caltech simply has a greater proportion of students who want to do research, which is mostly a function of its size. This is why Caltech produces such a high % who go on to get a PhD, and why larger universities - MIT, Harvard, etc. - produce a smaller %. It just means that only part of the student body is interested in research. If you want to do research, it’d be easy to surround yourself with such types at both schools. EECS at Berkeley is also very well-funded, esp. in research, so I don’t think that should be a concern.</p>
<p>Re: calendar systems, I don’t think it’s the case that you would take 5 classes per quarter at Caltech. For most schools on the quarter system, that’d be extremely hard and few students ever do it, so I’m skeptical that it would be standard at Caltech.</p>
<p>Housing works out fine, but consider which types of housing you would get. I’m personally not fond of either - Berkeley has a lot of high-rise housing, and Caltech has a small house system that you’re locked into for your four years (a system that many at LACs eventually find stifling, since it’s a tiny community of the same people). Caltech’s selection for the houses (rotation and all that) is weird, and seems kind of like rushing a fraternity the first week that you get to Caltech. </p>
<p>The reputation at Berkeley for competitiveness/cutthroat is supposedly overblown. You can search the forums for discussions of this.</p>
<p>Rankings here don’t matter; for all intents and purposes, the two are equal.</p>
<p>IMO in this case, Caltech isn’t worth $100k over Berkeley, esp. since you’d have Regents’. If the cost is easy for your family to pay, then you should look more into which environment you prefer, but even then $100k over 4 years is still a lot of cash that could be better spent.</p>
<p>(FWIW, I have no dog in this fight, as I went to Stanford over Berkeley and have not attended either school.)</p>