Where to go? Fordham, Northeastern, Penn, UMD, american, USC, Richmond, elon, JMU

College Search & Selection
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<p>All I really know about this kid is that he wants to go into business. I know that Richmond’s business school is ranked 15th in the nation, which is why I thought it might be a good school for him. In addition, there are several features about the school (as I listed) that made me like it. I thought I would share those so that the OP would have more information about a school that I found to be very good. </p>

<p>I really don’t know much about Fordham (which, in my opinion, is the only school on this list even comparable to Richmond) nor would I like to, so I’m not going to compare it to UR head-to-head. I do, however, know that the idea of choosing Richmond out of the schools the OP considering is not laughable.</p>

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<p>A lot of the posts have mentioned Fordham for business. Any thoughts on how their biology program is or for that matter, their women’s swim team?</p>

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<p>^^^…they have a decent swimming team. Go to their athletics website for more information. They also have a competitive womens rowing team. </p>

<p>They are significantly ramping up biology and environmental science at Fordham. New classes and programs and more money. New faculty. They have a close relationship with Albert Einstein Medical College of Yeshiva University, with joint programs, as well as other internships at other hospitals. Fordham has a strong record of placing kids into highly prestigious medical schools as well, including Cornell, Columbia.</p>

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<p>Um, pointing out a statistical manipulation does not equate to being a bigot. On your part, you’re not exactly unbiased either given your history of being extremely pro-Fordham, apparently so much you’re willing to be blind to obviously tweaked data sitting in front of you just because it appears the least bit unflattering. Basically, a summary of that post is you threw up your hands and said “Whatever! You suck!” which looks pretty bad lol. =shirtzo</p>

<p>I really don’t want to get into it with you or anyone about Fordham or any school. But your characterization of my comments is really over the top. I didnt manipulate any statistics. I stated a fact. Rising chemist doesnt know what Fordhams stats are and to suggest that enrolled students have significantly lower SATs than the overall admitted pool of applicants is likely very incorrect, but moreover, a likely result at many schools. I don’t have ENROLLED stats. I have their class profiles for the past several years, which are published by Fordham. I take them at their word. I don’t work for Fordham. All I know is that kids at Fordham are very smart and there are plenty of kids there who are friends with my D1 who have extraordinary stats and are on significant scholarships. I dont like being called a liar, manipulator or disingenuous. </p>

<p>I am very pro Fordham and would never deny that. I dont go on other school’s threads and ■■■■■ there and make ugly comments and epithets and attack anyone. Nor do I make negative comments about other schools…that isnt my style and would be contrary to my core belief that all colleges serve a valiant cause of educating our youth, whether they are 900 SAT’s 1300 SATs or 1600 SATs. </p>

<p>Its very poor form to make comments as you did. </p>

<p>School bashing is truly unprofessional. Particularly if you don’t go there and don’t have a specific complaint about how you were personally treated.</p>

<p>I understand people wont like some schools. It happened to us. There are several in fact that really get on my nerves. But I refrain from commenting about them because its my personal view and that school may be somebody’s dream school or where somebody is attending and working very hard. </p>

<p>I’m done with this soliloquy with you both.</p>

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<p>No one accused you of manipulating stats, but risingchemist did accuse you of misinterpreting stats. If someone quoted the numbers on Fordham’s link and said they were for enrolled students, then it would not be a fact, because those are the stats for accepted students. </p>

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<p>You’re getting personally offended when you shouldn’t be.</p>

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<p>Well at least you are now admitting that you don’t have enrolled stats. They are readily available so it really would have made more sense to look them up instead of saying I was wrong and saying you know the scores “for a fact.” If you need help finding them you could have asked.</p>

<p>Here are the stats for enrolled students per the University: </p>

<p>Admission Rate: 50%
Average High School GPA: 3.54
Average SAT Math: 620 (middle 50% range: 570-670)
Average SAT CR: 619 (middle 50% range: 570-670)
Average Composite Act score: 27
Percentage of Students in top 10% of high school class: 42%
Percentage of Students in top 25% of high school class: 78%
Percentage of Students in top 10% of high school class: 98%</p>

<p>These are good stats. All I said was don’t get carried away. I think your claims of an average SAT score of 1280 and on the verge of 1300 was getting carried away and it was. The average SAT score is 1239 (still pretty good). The middle 50% for math and critical reading is 1140-1340.</p>

<p>Here is a link to the stats: [Fordham</a> University Admissions Information - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1148]Fordham”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1148)</p>

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<p>update: Accepted to Elon and James Madison as well.</p>

<p>So far …accepted : Fordham, Elon, JMU
Deferred: Tulane
Waiting on: American, Richmond, PSU, Northeastern, USC, and Maryland</p>

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<p>^ at this point, Fordham, but wait and see on Tulane and Northeastern.</p>

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<p>Rising Chemist: nice try pal. Your source is not a Fordham source but some outside service that is postulating on what the admitted/enrolled students avg SAT score is. My source is what Fordham publishes and their profile for the middle 50th percentile is precisely as I stated. [Class</a> Profile](<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/admissions/undergraduate_admiss/applying/class_profile_28473.asp]Class”>http://www.fordham.edu/admissions/undergraduate_admiss/applying/class_profile_28473.asp)</p>

<p>Their avg SAT last year was indeed 1280. You dont know what you are talking about.</p>

<p>Have a nice day.</p>

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<p>I have heard great things about Richmond as well. According to BusinessWeek it’s undergrad seems top-notch as well. Any thoughts on U of R?</p>

51

<p>Richmond is a strong school that is in the shadow of William and Mary and UVa. It doesnt get the respect it deserves. Its a stellar academic school. Its all undergrads. They do have a law school however.</p>

<p>Great in sports as well.</p>

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This person has no idea what they are talking about and I have debunked his statements elsewhere. Suffice it to say Tulane is doing great, much better than pre-Katrina in fact.</p>

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<p>ghostbuster - you can thump your chest all you want, but you are in fact being a bit irrational and overreacting. The Fordham site you link to clearly says admitted students, not enrolled students. At best it is very ambiguous and I cannot see how you can claim to be absolutely right. However, the evidence is strong that they are in fact reporting accepted students rather than enrolled. Every source has the middle 50% for Fordham’s actual class as 1690-1990, yet they report 1810-2020 on the link you have. This has to be the admitted students, not the enrolled ones. It also makes the 1240 average far more probable. In addition, I am not seeing where you come up with 1280 as a stat. I don’t see that anywhere on that page. Can you clarify this? Finally, the stats that College Data, Princeton Review and others use are not “postulated”. They send questionnaires to all the schools and post what they get back, if they cannot get it from publicly available Common Data Sets or other, similar sources.</p>

<p>You now have 3 or 4 people telling you to calm down. Maybe you don’t care, that is your prerogative. But you are coming across as a bit irrational.</p>

54

<p>Actually, pre-Katrina, Tulane was ranked much higher than it is now. It has fallen in recent years. I believe almost 20 points since the early 2000s. I wouldn’t call that doing well.</p>

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<p>informative - That just shows how little you know. And I am quite sure you saw my response to this in another thread. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1056010-colleges-rise-4.html#post1066141951[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1056010-colleges-rise-4.html#post1066141951&lt;/a&gt; post #51. To summarize, Tulane lost a few years of meaningful graduation rate data because of Katrina. Next year, which is the 6th after Katrina, they won’t report a 6 year graduation rate at all. This has hammered them in the ranking because USNWR refuses to make a common sense adjustment. No matter. It has nothing to do with the quality of the school. Add to that there are people as woefully misinformed about the current state of Tulane as you are, and it probably is taking a bit of a hit in the peer assessment section as well.</p>

<p>None of this reflects the actual state of Tulane where there are more applicants than any other private school in the country, fantastic recognition by Carnegie Foundation, Time Magazine and others, the last 3 classes being the highest quality academically in the schools history, the retention rate being the highest in the school’s history, fantastic new programs involving cutting edge academic areas, and of course the most far-reaching and comprehensive service programs in the country, which involve not just doing community service (laudable as that is) but actually applying your studies in chemistry, business, architecture, whatever to the rebuilding of New Orleans and the betterment of the people that live there. I would indeed call that doing very very well.</p>

<p>You base everything on a ranking by a magazine out to sell issues with a system that has flaws big enough to drive a truck through. That is a huge mistake. Try doing some real research instead. Or better yet, go live it for a while and see what you think.</p>

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<p>fallen: I am continuing the discussion because I dont like being called overly zealous, disingenuous or a liar. I value my integrity, sir. (or madam). I don’t knowingly post untruths or exaggerations about Fordham or any school. </p>

<p>Fordham’s average SAT last year (class of 2014) is in fact 1280. That is from the Office of Admissions. </p>

<p>My position here on CC has always been to rebuke the Fordham bashers (and they are out there), and otherwise to assist people past the elitism which abounds here dripping from people’s mouths. </p>

<p>As for Tulane, its a fabulous school and I fully concur its completely back to form and New Orleans is doing much much better…though much work in the 9th ward needs to be done. The problem is abandoned properties and people aren’t coming home to claim their houses destroyed in the hurricane/flood and it takes years for the courts to clear up that legal mess on foreclosed properties/bad loans/abandoned properties.</p>

<p>And no, I don’t care if a band of hyenas is after me, so long as I have truth on my side, and I do, then all I can do is counter their ridiculous comments…none of whom attend Fordham, have any relationship with Fordham or have any of the stats from Fordham admissions. </p>

<p>And posting some bogus third party source claiming to have Fordham’s enrolled stats is really humorous and sad at the same time. So its not my alleged hysteria, its really a matter of clearing the record. </p>

<p>I challenge you or anyone here on CC to prove me wrong with absolute facts from Fordham on the avg SAT’s for the Class of 2014. (Not that SAT’s make a hoot…as I am no fan of standardized testing, in fact.) I was responding to someone who knows nothing about Fordham taking a swipe at them, and then I was attacked for presenting the evidence of Fordham’s vastly improved profile and USNWR rankings. If you call that hysteria, then you are mistaken, sir.</p>

<p>Have a nice day.</p>

<p>and informative: I dont think you are correct about that statement at all. I dont believe Tulane has fallen 20 spots. But you do the homework on that and prove your assertion with actual USNWR stats. Tulane is a fine school with a beautiful campus (that was largely saved from the ravages of Katrina as the flood waters didnt inundate the campus…there were issues but not as you suggest).</p>

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Fair enough. But they did not post that number on the page you cite. Can you tell me where to find that number in a published location?</p>

<p>Here is something new I found, referring directly to the class of 2014 and on the Fordham site. I am afraid you are wrong, sir.</p>

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<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/campus_resources/enewsroom/archives/archive_1954.asp[/url]”>http://www.fordham.edu/campus_resources/enewsroom/archives/archive_1954.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Actually, that is still a very healthy increase!</p>

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<p>Yes, that was LAST year’s increase. Not this years. This is the entering class of 2010/11 graduating in 2014. </p>

<p>Its whatever…and absurd, from my perspective, as SAT scores are just one indicator but not the exclusive indicator (except for the elitists here) of the quality of a student body at any institution. Years ago at Fordham an 1150 was middle of the pack and got you in. Today, its almost a certain rejection/deferral/waitlist. Today, being 1250 and up is what they are telling people, if they want to gain admission. Meanwhile Fordham went from mid 80’s in the USNWR listing of national universities 5 years ago to number 56 last year and intends on continuing that trend. </p>

<p>For the record, I am as supportive of other schools for students. I am not a Fordham fanatic, just a Fordham defender and supporter because my kid goes there (class of 2011). I am all about helping people find the right school for them, based upon their interests,abilities, skillset, financial situation, other factors. All I ever ask is that kids consider Fordham in the scheme of things if they are considering going to school in the Northeast and in particular in NYC. If its not for them, so be it, and best of luck.</p>

<p>Hopefully we can put this soliloquy to rest now and let kids decide where they might be a good fit.</p>

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<p>I’m going to list these in the order that I would suggest them in. It all depends on what you want from a school, though.</p>

<p>-Tulane - This is where I’m going in the fall probably…the school atmosphere is very laid back. People usually hate on it, but it’s a work hard, play hard school for SURE. Smart kids who don’t show off how smart they are, and enough competition to keep you motivated but not drive you senile. New Orleans has some great opportunities for community service & such if you’re interested in that, and Tulane has some GREAT programs and the honors program is absolutely amazing, if you’re interested in that. Also, it’s in the richest area of New Orleans, so if you’re concerned about safety, that’s not really of concern. It’s in a “bubble,” so to speak. </p>

<p>-Penn state (University Park)- My dad went here, pretty much everyone who goes here absolutely loves it. Huge party school, great academics, strong in the sciences, but it is in the middle of nowhere, so you have that to consider. Very athletically strong (stronger than the other schools your listed…so if you’re into school unity & stuff like that, I’d choose Penn State). You can’t really go wrong with Penn State. Schreyers Honors College is also on of the best Honors Colleges in the country.</p>

<p>-University of Maryland (College Park)- Great location for internships. Right between Baltimore and DC, most people I know who go here say it has good academics and athletics, better academics though. Pretty much on par with Tulane & penn State with academics but I think if you want a city type location that isn’t actually in a city UMD is the way to go.</p>

<p>-Fordham - In the heart of NYC. Way more of a city school than Tulane, but it does have sort of a campus. It’s not really very strong academically, but it is rising. I’ve heard that there’s nothing really special about Fordham - mediocre academics, not really an athletic scene, but people who go here absolutely love it, but again depends on what you want.</p>

<p>-Northeastern - Pretty much 75% of my graduating class ends up here. It is in Boston, but I don’t think its academically that great compared to the other schools on your list, and it has a huge party reputation.</p>

<p>-American University- Academically mediocre. In the heart of DC, usually in Georgetown & George Washington’s shadow. Compared to the other schools on your list, I don’t think it has much going for it.</p>

<p>-James Madison University - A LOT of girls, haha, my best friend goes here and she loves it. It is also kind of the middle of nowhere, HUGE party school, average athletics. Academically mediocre. Nothing too special.</p>

<p>-Elon - Academically medicore, but again, one of those schools that people love. It is in the middle of nowhere in North Carolina.</p>

<p>-University of Richmond- In the middle of nowhere, not too great.</p>

<p>-University of South Carolina - Not at all academically good in comparison to your other schools, very Southern, I wouldn’t really consider this one.</p>

<p>Out of these schools, if you’re looking for a city school I’d go for Fordham or Tulane, and Tulane has the stronger academics of the two. If you’re looking for somewhere near a city, go for UMD. Not really near a city, I’d go for Penn State. I really think your top three should be Penn State, Tulane, and UMD, but that’s just me.</p>

<p>Good luck! Let me know if you want any more advice. :D</p>

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<p>fallen:</p>

<p>I did some more research and apparently the error I made was on the use of the term, “average” which is entirely different from “mean” score. I am not a statistician or math whiz. My number of 1280, as reported to me by those with direct contact with admissions, turns out to be a rounded mean score, using their 50th percentile range of 1810-2020 last year (who entered in September 2010). I did the math over again, and I came up with a mean score of 1277. So I was off by 3 points and I apologize for that. </p>

<p>I dont think Fordham publishes anywhere (and they dont publish their stats publicly which they report to Dept of Educ, as some schools do), what the precise enrolled stats are. </p>

<p>But average is indeed just that, the average of ALL scores from lowest to highest, of those admitted, not just the select mean score from the 50th percentile range. I don’t precisely know how many are in the upper 25th percentile nor in the lower 25th percentile to give a precise mean score, because there may well be more kids at the upper end (a presumption, but more likely than not) than there are admitted in the lower 25th percentile, because the lower 25th has a greater likelihood of failure and withdrawal and it would be a fools errand to admit kids you think might fail. Not that kids with an 1150 or 1175 will necessarily fail, or be unable to attain high honors. In fact, I know someone at a prestigious southern school that is frequently touted her on CC who entered their college with an SAT below 1200 (1175 I think) and is set to graduate high honors…its amazing. So it can be done. </p>

<p>In any event, my claim of 1280 was honest based on what I was told, but it turns out to be a median score from the 50th percentile range of admitted students at Fordham (1277) and the actual precise median of ALL scores may be higher…perhaps that exact 1280 I presented.</p>

<p>I hope this resolves this misunderstanding. In any event, kids applying to Fordham now and in the future know that anything below a 1250/1600 SAT is problematic for them…its much better to be closer to 1300 than 1200. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>