Which 100%-of-need schools interpret "need" the most favorably?

Paying for College
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<p>My dd attends a school that meets 100% of need, and my ds (still in high school) is looking at several others that profess to do the same. However, the online financial aid calculator for one of these schools reveals that it would cost us double the amount we're paying at dd's school. The difference is in the five figures.</p>

<p>I know each school has its own definition of "need," and for me this was a dramatic illustration. </p>

<p>Which 100%-of-need schools tend to interpret "need" the most favorably, and which do not? My ds does not wish to waste time applying to schools that we could not afford.</p>

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<p>Great question! The aid is supposed to be need-based but there seems to be a lot of variation between schools on the amount of awards.</p>

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<p>Harvard 10char</p>

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<p>How private schools calculate need is not made public in most instances. It seems to be closely-held information. So a rigorous comparison is not really possible. There are enough anecdotes that a rough pattern sometimes forms for a particular U. </p>

<p>Also there is a lot of variation in how much schools "meet need’ with loans. Meeting need with a loan is really only postponing payment for you, not actually reducing your need except for immediate cash flow.</p>

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<p>CC posts have spoken highly of Harvard and Stanford – but what about the “lesser” Ivys? Or places like Northwestern, Rice, WUSTL? Or UVA for an out-of-state student?</p>

<p>All of these places say they meet full need. Does anyone have experience with how they interpret “need”?</p>

<p>Anecdotal information is what I’m looking for, since hard-and-fast data aren’t available.</p>

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<p>WUSTL is need-aware, even though they are 100% need. They are also implementing a no-loans program - however, their website is ambiguous. I can’t tell if this program has already been implemented or if it is on the way. That said, I have no idea how they compute “need”.</p>

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<p>Keep in mind even with schools meeting 100% need there are also schools that offer “preferential packaging” for that said need. It can include additional monies in the form of grants/subsidies/research/laptops/travel/seminars… </p>

<p>With 5 now college-aged children our family as seen a large variation in numerous packages (50+). Not only from the initial package sent with acceptance but with revisions that were made throughout the academic year and then in each subsequent year.</p>

<p>Work study amounts can vary especially depending on the hourly rate paid, the total amount awarded, the expected summer savings contribution which can be changed depending on income level, summer courses taken, research done, internships and summer programs. I have no qualms saying it can be very fluid from year to year, from student to student and school to school.</p>

<p>I would say the FAFSA, Profile and the school’s own financial aid forms provide a guideline to the basic package. Over the years we have seen that developed relationships with the FA offices and the kiddos’ respective major departments have allowed for much greater flexibility with regard to meeting “need”.</p>

<p>Our anecdotal info for initial packages we have is wide (50+) however, the ensuing years with continuing aid is only 6 schools- all resulting in being extremely flexible.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Columbia and Dartmouth have very good aid, not HYPS good, but close.</p>

<p>I disagree that most colleges keep their practices a secret, most even have calculators on their web site that, if used properly, give you a very good read. The difference between many 100% schools is how they treat home equity (Harvard doesn’t count primary home, Stanford does for example). All will tell you how they treat it. Also pay attention to how they use (or don’t) loans as part of the package, this makes a huge difference.</p>

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<p>Both before and after their new FA initiatives, we found HYP to be far above all others for our financial situation (moderate income, higher than average assets). I’m assuming S is similar to HYP due to their new FA policy, but I don’t have personal experience with them.</p>

<p>During freshman admissions (before the new initiatives) HYP all offered us about 15k/yr in grants, while others, including Amherst, Brown and WUSTL gave us 0. Rice gave merit scholarships but no FA, so it’s hard to determine what they would have offered w/o the scholarships. As a transfer (with the new initiative), Y gives us about half of COA (grants & WS), while Dartmouth, Amherst and Brown offered 0.</p>

<p>Again, this is just for our individual family situation; but it definitely was an eye opener for me.</p>

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<p>I would just like to point out that Harvard indeed gives by far the most aid. Even when compared with Princeton, it was obvious that Harvard was putting in more effort to meet full need (personal experience). What they don’t advertise is that Harvard actually has a whole series of aids that are given quietly to pay for shows, coats, etc for students that qualify.</p>

<p>However, Princeton, Caltech, Rice, and Dartmouth all give extremely generous aids, roughly in that order.</p>

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<p>Wingless-
We found the exact opposite to be true between posted schools. Again only personal knowledge. Same quiet disbursement.</p>

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<p>Hmom, the only school I know of with a publicly-transparent FA calculator is Princeton. Are there others?</p>

<p>I would say most schools like to keep their formulae private, so they can use preferential packaging to steer aid to students they really want but not have to justify less preferential packaging to others.</p>

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<p>I really think there are so many variables that it’s almost impossible to tell what will happen in your situation. I know one student who wanted to go to Yale but found Harvard to be much more generous and is now headed to MA. Yet, I know another who found Yale to be far more generous. </p>

<p>Personally, we found Yale most generous, followed closely by Princeton. Some of the other schools you mentioned (Cornell, WashU and Columbia) weren’t even close.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, we were warned by a Columbia senior that Columbia’s financial aid package drops each year, even if your financial circumstances don’t change. I can’t actually verify that, but I do know that their office was far and away the worst with regard to communication.</p>

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<p>I know that Northwestern was very good to meeting 100% need - and they say they meet 100% of need on their website. Other than the normal student loans - (Stafford - $3500, Perkins - $2000, and $2200 workstudy) Northwestern met exactly to our EFC as stated on the Fafsa. So basically my son will be taking out $5500 and also doing the work study. Our EFC was about $14,850. So we received a grant for about 31,650.</p>

<p>Northwestern 2009 - 2010: 54,200
Student Loans / Work Study: -7,700
Family Contribution- EFC: -14,850
Northwestern Grant: -31,650 so the grant met all of our need.</p>

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<p>katwkittens, I was wondering for some time as to whether the summer contributions would also be revised due to the economy. So many students are having trouble finding summer employment, at least in my area. I wonder how many seniors said no to a private school if they are asking for a high summer earnings contribution and the senior was not hired for this summer. I was also wondering how profile schools are currently verifying home value in this economy. I also wonder if they are being realistic about the possibility of a family even being able to tap equity if there is any (HELOCs are tougher to get today), but I suppose PLUS loans are there for those that cannot tap home equity which is factored into EFC at some profile schools. It seems as though the financial formula is outdated a bit for the current economy.</p>

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<p>The variations we saw on packages was tremendous with the same family with the same EFC. Penn required NO summer contribution and yet it clearly states on their website/literature that they do. Same with Colby and Northwestern. Compared to Pton, Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth, Swat and others.</p>

<p>However, the AMOUNT that was stated also varied tremendously. From a small amount to a very large amount. Same was true with workstudy. A few hundred all the way to $4000. Some schools have the no-loan policy and others build the package from loans maxed and up.</p>

<p>Others schools that purported to meet need did not, gapped- received the admit/deny.</p>

<p>Also keep in mind, the ELASTICITY of Cost of Attendance in shaping a package.</p>

<p>How much is awarded for travel?
For books and supplies?
For laptops?
For misc?
For personal expenses?
For room and board? Did they average the meal plans, did they assume the most expensive, did they award for a single or an over-booked triple?</p>

<p>These above items can when combined can SIGNIFICANTLY alter a package(s) bottom line.</p>

<p>Are you spending $1200 on travel per semester? Or $200?</p>

<p>If you overload on units each semester and tuition increases does financial aid cover that? What about semester abroad?</p>

<p>The variation we have seen from DIII LACs to OOS Publics to the Ivy’s to in-state publics has been tremendous. That is now expected.</p>

<p>The best advise I can give is 1) the more options you have the more light is shed on the process and outcomes 2) the more “desirable” the student for whatever reason the better the package and 3) the more the STUDENT is involved with the financial aid and with the actual expenses and payment the better the outcome financially and accountability for the student.</p>

<p>Really understanding the true expense: how much will they really need/want to eat determines meal plans, what type of living environment, what type of wardrobe, travel plans/ease and mode of transport/distance, books and supplies and personal expenses ($-$$$$) vs. adversity to loans and loan amounts, how much work study/part time work vs. hourly wage all can drastically alter the bottom line regardless of the actual award amount.</p>

<p>And awards can be revised. Over and over.</p>

<p>Some schools prefer you use their OWN financial aid forms rather than the profile. Penn, pton, colby, amherst, cornell…always, always ask.</p>

<p>And yes we have seen some schools waive/reduce/reallocate the summer contribution depending on the student’s circumstances. What we have also found to be true that the financial aid offices that were reachable, and flexible initially remained so throughout the 4 years and the converse was also true.</p>

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<p>Katwkittens, excellent post. We have seen much of what you said to be true with our older son.</p>

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<p>It is really impossible to say for any individual as some schools also give merit money whereas others do not. I know kids who got less from Columbia, Yale, UPenn that from Hopkins or Duke, a lot less, but the reason was the merit within aid that the latter schools included in their packages. </p>

<p>Though you can use the on line calculators to get some ideas, and you can also ask some financial aid departments to give you an estimate, when the actual time comes, it so depends on the condition of the uni’s funds at that moment , what the schools needs and wants are at that time, and what the student applicant pool is that year. I have seen widely divergent packages among schools that out and out state that they use the same methodology as they belong to some consortium of sorts. There is a great deal of leeway fin aid folks have in putting together a package.</p>

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<p>Typically, need is a fairly arbitrary number: COA - EFC = Need</p>

<p>COA being cost of attendance, and EFC is expected family contribution. But as katwkittens explained, COA can be fudged in different directions. Use the collegeboard numbers. They are as close to consistent as you’ll get.</p>

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<p>From what I’ve read and heard from some posters here and on other sites, women’s colleges, especially Bryn Mawr, gave much more “need-based” aid for middle to upper-middle class parents than other colleges. Some students got over 1/2 in grants and then work study while getting much less at other top colleges or lower tier. I know that will vary greatly but overall, except for Smith, many parents seemed very pleased with their aid.</p>