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<p>lol I just couldn’t be asked to go and check out rankings/statistics/research assessment etc. I’ve been living in the UK since my father moved here, and have noticed the sparse amount of top schools, but there is more then people think.</p>
<p>It all depends on your major.</p>
<p>Someone who wants to do finance/business would choose Wharton over Harvard
Brown 8 year med over Harvard
Cornell engineering > Harvard</p>
<p>etc etc</p>
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<p>Makes sense, because the data might not support a “view” that St Andrews is equal to Brown or Dartmouth. Since it is hard to compare US with British applicants, we might have to look at the 25 to 30 percent of the St Andrews students who come from … the United States. While we can play with statistics, it is EXTREMELY doubtful that the pool of admitted students from the US to Brown or Dartmouth share many attributes with the admitted students at St. Andrews. Actually, the Scottish school is merely a magnet for students who do not stand much of chance at the two named Ivy League schools. At best, you might compare it to a strong to average public school a la UCSD or Michigan or Wisconsin.</p>
<p>The situation and reputation factors might be different on a local basis, but through a US lens of selectivity, the schools are simply not comparable.</p>
<p>In other words, Spawn, your “knowledge” comes from American pop culture phenomena where, indeed, the HYP names are bandied about like brand names of world-dominant consumer goods (on shows like “Suits,” “Gilmore Girls”). Kind of the educational equivalents of McDonalds and Starbucks: as “names” that uniquely convey status and quality to the minimally informed. Everyone has heard of them so, “logically” they must be the indisputable “best.” That ain’t how it works in the real worlds of American academia, business, or the professions.</p>
<p>It is also my experience that persons who have actually attended these schools do not waste their time tier-ing them. They just don’t. It is an “indulgence” of little, petty, unimaginative minds. NO one in the REAL world who has attended an Ivy spends time RANKING the Ivies, unless one did so poorly at one’s school that ranking is the necessary substitute for non-achievement post-college and thus a kind of desperate psychological salve, or bulwark for a battered and defensive ego.</p>
<p>As for the British schools. As I posted earlier, some of the British schools also being dismissed here have extremely high world ratings, for what it is worth. Like HYP historically had to the American ruling classes (political, social, economic), Oxbridge has centuries-long links to the British ruling class, and the “upstart” schools (British and the other Ivies) suffer in social prestige for this reason, as they all lack the enormous weight of this centuries-old tradition. These are historical phenomena not current realities, at least as regards the U.S. schools.</p>
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I think you’ve misunderstood me. My point was that people on this forum typically assume that the Ivies have a far greater reputation than top UK schools abroad, and I was just stating that many people in the UK would be ignorant of the Ivies if not for ‘popular culture’ I’m not disputing their quality, just saying that without the influx of American media, people may be a bit more ignorant of the Ivies just like they are of some top UK schools.</p>
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<p>Do you really think I would partake in such discussion in the real world where none of this **** matters?. This is on a student forum asking ‘which British unis are comparable to the Ivy League’ so it’ a hotbed for trivial discussion. My point was just to emphasis that some Ivies are more 'prestigious than others,you simply cannot compare Harvard’s prestige to Cornell or Brown at home and abroad. I agree that tiering the ivies is somewhat crude, but surely there is a difference in prestige between some.</p>
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<p>I agree here, probably most prevalent in the case of Cornell in the US and Warwick in the UK. I’m sure in the UK however, Oxbridge has more to its bow than this.</p>
<p>swingtime: There is a difference between Harvard and Cornell, and I don’t know how you’re able to graduate from Harvard without really knowing how stronger it is compared to Cornell.</p>
<p>SpawnofDescartes: I think some of the people who criticize your views have not really lived outside of the US, thus their glaring ignorance very much reflect on their posts… </p>
<p>Of course, outside of the US, schools like Brown and Dartmouth, for example, aren’t viewed the same as HYP. You’re only fooling yourself if you insist that it is.</p>
<p>UK unis like Warwick, UCL, Durham, Bristol and the like enjoy 10% or lower admit rates. That’s similar to the lower Ivies’. And, students can only apply to 5 unis maximum. Furthermore, over 85% of the admitted students have A-Levels of AAB and higher. The lower Ivies have SAT scores of around 1250/1600.</p>
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<p>I have a good friend who went to Cornell for undergrad, and to Harvard for postbac. He said that what surprised him was the lack of a difference in faculty quality, and in research resources. This, however, is not to say that Cornell holds the same position in the general public’s perception – just that Cornell’s actual proficiencies may be at a higher level than some people might guess.</p>
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<p>Haha, speak for yourself!</p>
<p>Well, I wonder if our friend here, xiggi, has ever lived outside of the US to really know what he’s talking about and arguing or fighting for.</p>
<p>RML, I’d be happy to compare our mutual “international” knowledge and background. Of course, I would not dream of trying to match your knowledge of your alma mater in the Philippines. As far as schools attended, that is quite easy to … verify in the real world that is not a Harry Potter fantasy! </p>
<p>Still selling those jackets?</p>
<p>Ha! You are wrong about me attending school in the Philippines, lol… </p>
<p>If I indeed attend formal education in the Philippines, I don’t see any reason not to be proud about it. After all, the top schools in the Philippines have produced some really fantastic people. It’s just that, xiggi, stop making lies. </p>
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Really? You can’t even distinguish many of the top universities in the UK and now you’re saying that! lol</p>
<p>“Of course, outside of the US, schools like Brown and Dartmouth, for example, aren’t viewed the same as HYP. You’re only fooling yourself if you insist that it is.”</p>
<p>Outside of the US and UK, Yale, Princeton, and Oxbridge aren’t viewed the same as Harvard. Everyone I’ve talked with were impressed the most with Harvard.</p>
<p>^ That’s true, IvyPBear (though the gap between Harvard and Oxford/Cambridge isn’t really that big amongst the literate groups.) And, that reinforces my claim that the Ivies do not fall in the same league, but in different leagues. There is a gap that separates Harvard from Columbia, Columbia from Brown and so on.</p>
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<p>How would YOU know? Because I do not come here to regurgitate facts gleaned on the internet --like you do with US universities? How hard would it be to “pretend” to have a deep knowledge about the higher education in the UK by rehashing the silly rankings produced in China and England? How hard would it be to repeat the information produced by US State Department or the numerous specialists who evaluate the European schools for … US potential candidates. Or one could follow sources in India as destinations in the UK or Germany are popular. And, last but not least, I could simply ask members of my European extended family. </p>
<p>Fwiw, your comments about the Ivy League and their supposedly tiers only shows how little you know about the US system of education, and what you show is nothing but an ignorant bias. In so many words, you believe that schools such as Brown or Dartmouth are mere glorified high schools or … unworthy LACs. </p>
<p>Even if you knew much about the UK higher education --which I continue to believe it is a pure fabrication of yours-- you would not be able to offer COMPARISONS that are valid. </p>
<p>If there is a person who has to stop the lies, it is you.</p>
<p>@xiggi Brown and Dartmouth are top notch schools, but (at least according to international opinion anyways) they are not seen to be at the same caliber as HYP. They’re all great schools, but there is some separation.</p>
<p>by the way, as someone who has lived in the UK and plans to apply there for university, I’m going to have to back up RML’s claims about UK higher education. They’re not fabrications.</p>
<p>^^ Missed a few points!</p>
<p>The fabrication is the claim of having attended a UK school such as Girton. Story might have come from finding a picture of Girton Hall at his obsessively beloved Cal. </p>
<p>The other point is not about “ranking” the Ivy League school; it is about pretending that Brown and Dartmouth are comparable to a school such as St. Andrews. From a US perspective, a reasonable SAT or ACT (that might not get one accepted at flagship state universities in the US,) reasonable grades, and a pulse and fat wallet will get you into St. Andrews. Try that at Dartmouth and Brown!</p>
<p>Oh, no wonder why I have such a hard time believing you’ve studied at Stanford. hahaha… So, the feeling is mutual. </p>
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Another lie… </p>
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Provide the figures then. Show me that those Americans attending St Andrews have subpar stats. </p>
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Let’s take Brown for example. The 25th / 75th Percentile SAT Math at Brown is 650 / 760. That means, about 25% of Brown students have SAT Math score of below 650. While that isn’t a subpar score, that isn’t an impressive score either. But more importantly, it tells us a picture that Brown students aren’t exactly homogenous liek what you’re saying – some are really gifted, and some are just bright. And, maybe some got in through connections and whatnot. And, while Brown is viewed very prestigious in America, it does not enjoy the same prestige internationally. In many countries, especially, the Commonwealth member countries, St Andrews is viewed just as prestigious as Brown, if not even more so, due to Prince William, and lately, of Royal Wedding. Look, I am not devaluing the true caliber of Brown. I’m only saying, it has competitions in the UK.</p>
<p>the St Andrews undergraduate admission for American students is on the website. Here are the minimum requirements:</p>
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<p>^ Thanks for that. It doesn’t really look that high. But when the number of places (admit rate) gets into the picture, I doubt by if submitting the minimum grades will get you an offer. St Andrews enjoys a 10% admit rate these past few years. It could even be lower than that now.</p>
<p>Haha, RML, you just showed how little you knew about St. Andrews and how little you understand what SAT scores mean. If Brown’s SAT are not impressive at 650/760, I wonder what would be. And it is blatantly obvious you have no clue about who from the US gets accepted at St. Andrews. </p>
<p>As far as our alma mater, that’d be pretty easy to verify using a common third party. Care to send a copy to Alexandre, Sensei?</p>