<p>“I’d say that Northwestern and Georgetown are equally prestigious. Less than Brown or Dartmouth. Significantly more than Michigan…”</p>
<p>I disagree.</p>
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In most of the US, I don’t think people would say that Berkeley is more prestigious than U.Va. and Michigan. Those three are generally thought of as the three best publics. And regionally, people would not be impressed that a person went to Berkeley over the local flagship, such as UNC, UT, or Wisconsin. I don’t think having an undergrad degree from Berkeley would help you get a job in Maryland over a person with a degree from UMCP, as another example. Again, it may be different on the West Coast, but on the East Coast, at least, Berkeley is a really good state school.</p>
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<p>“Exclusivity” affects reputation and perception.</p>
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<p>People in the know understand that the Morehead-Cain scholarship at UNC is as exclusive as an acceptance to HYP. The Echols Scholarship at UVa is also exclusive but less so. Getting it is akin to getting a non-HYP ivy acceptance.</p>
<p>I would rather go for Northwestern than Brown, because it is for me the more prestigious school between the two. But that’s just me and I don’t live in America, and I don’t really care what the general Americans think. In my world, Northwestern is more regarded than Brown is, so it is illogical for me to choose Brown over Northwestern. This just goes to show that prestige is a relative thing. What seems to be prestigious for me does not seem to appear the same for other people, and vice versa. </p>
<p>And, I would take a JHU offer over Brown or Dartmouth. And, hell, yeah, even Michigan Ross or Michigan Engineering over either Brown of Dartmouth. I know Pizzagirl and hawkette would shut me for saying that. But would their words really matter to me when in my world, which is obviously outside of theirs, Brown, and to a lesser extent, Dartmouth, aren’t seen with high regards?</p>
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<p>If you disagree (without giving any reason), then whatever you disagree with must be wrong.</p>
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Well, then, you should simply accept with equanimity that perceptions of prestige in the U.S.–including of Berkeley–are different from your perceptions overseas. Here, few people would think that Northwestern is more prestigious than Brown.
Dimsum, exclusivity affects prestige, but so do lots of other factors. For example, it’s harder in this country to become a veterinarian than it is to become a medical doctor. But which is more prestigious? Prestige is perception.</p>
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Agreed. But if you really think about it, those three (UVa to a lesser extent, however) have also quite excellent professional and postgraduate programs. Michigan Law, UVa law, Berkeley Law are all prestigious. Haas, Ross and Darden are also quite prestigious business schools. In fact, these are schools ranked just behind the top 3 of each program, and they share applicant pool with those of the top 3 schools for each of those programs, as they are often the fall-back school for each of the top 3 schools for each of those professional programs. UNC does not have any specific professional program that is something of BMV’s caliber. If it does have one, it sure would improve its general prestige. It’s the same logic that applies why UVa has a stronger brand name than has William & Mary when in fact they’re generally equally excellent for undergrad education.</p>
<p>Have you thought for a while what Berkeley would have become if it did not have solid professional and postgraduate programs?</p>
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<p>Among internationals in-the-know, Brown (as an ivy) is more prestigious than Northwestern.</p>
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<p>There are fewer veterinarian schools. But medical doctors generally have higher qualifications (gpa, MCAT) than veterinarians.</p>
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So what? This “general prestige” you keep talking about has no real meaning, at least in the United States. Honestly, few people would choose one of these schools because it has excellent professional schools, unless maybe they already know they’d be interested in attending that particular professional school.</p>
<p>dimsum, you sound familiar. Let me get back to you.</p>
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Do you think that’s why medical doctors have higher social prestige than veterinarians?</p>
<p>Partly. Most people assume medical doctors are generally more intelligent than veterinarians.</p>
<p>Hunt, okay. I agree with your explanation about prestige. </p>
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If an undergraduate degree from Berkeley wouldn’t help anyone get a job in other States, then I would surmise that it would also be true for a Brown and Dartmouth degree, unless we’re talking about US States where Brown and Dartmouth are located. I don’t really believe that a medium-sized engineering firm in Florida, for example, would treat with a higher regard for a Brown engineering than a Berkeley engineering. The Forbes’ Payscale data, whilst aren’t perfect but are telling, have shown us that Brown grads (which, btw, count so few compared to Berkeley’s) don’t really make as much as Berkeley grads do. And I don’t think that’s largely due to Berkeley’s location, which is California, because Pomona grads (also of fewer counts than Berkeley’s) have not also been registering figures favorably for them either despite their small size and same location (State).</p>
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<p>I’m an NU alum who decided between NU and Georgetown (and a few other schools, including an Ivy) umpteen years ago, and just toured Georgetown on Saturday, looking at it with my two juniors, one of whom is interested in their SFS. I think it is a completely ridiculous debate to argue which is more “prestigious” – they are both excellent schools with excellent reputations, and they’ll get anyone anywhere they want to go.</p>
<p>I know the original statement that Brown & Dartmouth are more prestigious than NU to be a slam at me since it’s known that I’m an NU alum. Shrug.<br>
Beats me. Not sure why I should really care. It’s certainly been prestigious enough for anything I’ve needed prestige for, so whether there is something else out there with more prestige is rather irrelevant.</p>
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I am one of those internationals in the know and I would choose Northwestern over Brown.</p>
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Brown and Dartmouth (and Northwestern) are private universities with a national reputation for prestige and quality. Brown and Dartmouth are Ivy League schools, and that helps people get jobs. It will be less relevant in fields like engineering, especially if engineers are doing the hiring.</p>
<p>Look, even just in the US, this is complicated. Perceptions differ based on region and discipline. You might be able to say what school is more “prestigious,” but that doesn’t necessarily translate into concrete benefits, like getting a job. If the hiring partner at the law firm in Richmond went to William and Mary, his perceptions of what your diploma from another school means is the only perception that really counts. “Prestige” may be shorthand for characteristics that might open doors for you, but it’s never that simple.</p>
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<p>What an odd reason for your choice. If you said you would go for NU over Brown because you preferred to live nearer a larger city and Chicago > Providence, or you liked a given program at NU that wasn’t offered at Brown, or you visited both and you liked the vibe of NU better, that would make sense. But just “it’s more prestigious” (in your mind)? See, the core difference is – as the mother of two juniors who are starting the process, I want them evaluating what they like and what is best for them based on their OWN opinions and evaluations, not just surveying what other people think of their choices. </p>
<p>RML, I don’t know if this saying translates to Italy, but we have a saying in the US that is said to children. When a child says that he wants to do something because his friends are doing it, we say “If your friends told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?” It’s to illustrate that it’s more important to find your own truth about a situation than just follow the herd’s opinions. You are a prime follower of the herd’s opinions, and it doesn’t reflect well on you. You don’t want to take the time to figure out what’s right for you – you just look to see what other people think of your choices. How do you make any major life decisions without national polls to help you?</p>
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<p>Why would you surmise that to be true? As an American (you know! One who might actually know America, go figure!), it’s quite evident to me that a Brown and Dartmouth education would have a national reputation, whereas Berkeley’s reputation wanes as you go outside California, simply because the school is so California-centric (by design). Which doesn’t reflect at all on the quality of Berkeley’s offerings. But it is laughable for you to come into a culture you know nothing about and surmise that your pet schools are national favorites at a higher plane than they really are.</p>
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<p>By definition, you’re not, because you’re clinging to a very California-centric view of the US. Lots of native Californians do it too, you know. Berkeley is just not all that huge of a deal outside of California. Which doesn’t mean that it’s poor quality – just lesser known in many parts of the country. That’s all. That only “matters” if making sure the barber and the drycleaner know your school is of major importance to you. </p>
<p>My D is currently in love with an east coast school that no one from her school has ever applied to and no one has heard of. It’s still quite prestigious; just because it’s unknown to the masses out here – shrug, who cares? Their problem for being so provincial.</p>