<p>Wow, I just realized what a long post I wrote after I clicked post…</p>
<ol>
<li>i thought u asked if it was easier to take an AP … not how impressive / beneficial self-studying is.</li>
<li><p>w/e… it’s difficult to judge the competence of AP teachers. however, imo, in general, seeing that it’s a MIRACLE for many schools for a student to get a 4 indicates that the average AP teacher isn’t very good. also, there are many advantages to self-studying the student can FOCUS on his weak parts, can skip over parts hes good at, he doesnt have to waste time taking quizzes /doing assignments that dont apply to him, doesnt get hassled by stupid classmates, he can schedule the assignments in a favorable way. </p></li>
<li><p>i never said AP course = college course</p></li>
<li><p>my brother self-studied AP Psych in a week (got a 5)… it really isn’t that hard considering he only had to read about 140 concise and simple pages of a review book and then practice some questions
it wouldve been much more difficult / time consuming if he took it in school (though he could’ve gotten more out of it)</p></li>
<li><p>ur school SHOULD let you take an AP exam w/o taking the course. according to the collegeboard info packet, it’s never mandatory to take the course to take an exam.</p></li>
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<p>EDIT: 6. a student should spend considerable time deciding whether to self-study or take an AP course. it’s a difficult decision seeing as there are many factors involved.</p>
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<p>No, I have not, but I am planning to this coming year because of schedule boundaries (not because I think it is “more impressive”). I taught myself Calculus during Algebra 2, so I think I have an idea of what it takes to “self-study” (I was actually almost going to take the Calc AP test, but I figured it would be more beneficial to take the class since the teacher is amazing).</p>
<p>Self-studying does not give you the ability to discuss ideas with someone versed in that field. Yes, of course you can always talk to the teacher or to someone you may know, but they are not always accessible. Self-studying involves a lot of discipline (yes, I have taught myself piano, and that=discipline), but that does not automatically make it more impressive. Usually you won’t go into as much detail as a regular course will. The AP test measures more of general knowledge (with of course some insanely descriptive questions), which a regular college course (or comparable AP course) will give you the extra information/instruction necessary for the next level. A course allows you to cover material beyond that of the AP test. For example, imagine you are taking an AP physics class. Now you are learning how to solve problems on projectile motion. When self-studying, it is very hard to learn and at the same time understand such a topic without the guidance of someone who knows what they are talking about. The teacher may present a different way of doing the problem that is easier for you. When self-studying, you are typically not exposed to these different methods of dealing with a problem. A class gives you the overall knowledge necessary to continue on, where the AP tests, while close, may not fully measure the ability of the student in that certain area.</p>
<p>Believe me, I have nothing against self-studying, but I just honestly don’t believe it is all that much more impressive. Most colleges (especially top ones) probably won’t even care if you self-studied or not. Most others would probably feel that a course would give you a more fully developed understanding of the subject at hand (but of course they are not going to know how the teacher is or whatever else). It is just the general college understanding that a course will provide a more solid foundation.</p>
<p>My opinion, that’s it. I have studied many things on my own and know what it takes, so my argument really loses no validity if I have not self-studied specifically for an AP test.</p>
<p>Of course, I’d take the course if I knew the teacher was phenomenal. I’m just assuming that you don’t know which teacher you’re going to get and go figure the probability of getting a phenomenal teacher. I don’t think anyone should self-study just because it’s more impressive. </p>
<p>Someone brought up how impressive / beneficial self-studying it is, so I decided to comment on that.</p>
<p>“it’s a MIRACLE for many schools for a student to get a 4”
Really? According to statistics, approximately two in five exams score a 4 or 5. Assuming that the average school has more than 3 exams written, it doesn’t sound that unlikely.</p>
<p>“4. my brother self-studied AP Psych in a week (got a 5)… it really isn’t that hard considering he only had to read about 140 concise and simple pages of a review book and then practice some questions… it would’ve been much more difficult / time consuming if he took it in school (though he could’ve gotten more out of it)”</p>
<p>Please read my comment earlier about this:
“Yes, there are numerous threads out there that said “I self-studied and crammed in the AP material the night (or two) before and I still pulled a 5.” Quite honestly, I don’t think the majority can do that and being able to cram in AP material in a night or two sounds quite impressive already. That shows you’re ready for college and you could cram a lot of material for an exam.”</p>
<p>Besides, I don’t see how taking it in school would be more difficult. Time consuming? Maybe, but that’s probably because the class goes too slow.</p>
<p>Salve, I don’t understand your second paragraph. So you’re saying that “When self-studying, it is very hard to learn and at the same time understand such a topic without the guidance of someone who knows what they are talking about. The teacher may present a different way of doing the problem that is easier for you.”</p>
<p>So basically, if you were able to self-study that material, then it means you’re capable of teaching yourself the material. Doesn’t that mean it’s harder to self-study? Actually, your whole second paragraph is basically arguing why self-studying is harder… </p>
<p>True, the course might go more in-depth into certain topics, but so what? Going more in-depth doesn’t make you any more prepared for college. You’re “forced” to learn the material if you want to pass the class and you’ll probably forget everything by the time you enrol in college. Meanwhile, self-studying means piling up work for yourself on top of your regular course load. </p>
<p>Besides, it’s give or take. Many courses don’t even finish the AP curriculum, while many self-studiers do. For example, if I self-studied Grade 9 Math and went straight into Grade 10 Math, true, I may be less prepared than others in certain topics, but I’ll probably be more prepared than others in other topics. </p>
<p>The point is, many people don’t have the discipline/ ability to self-study for an AP exam, and that’s what make self-studying impressive.</p>
<p>Self-studying seems easier, IMO b/c it takes the added pressure of having to do homeworks/tests/quizzes/projects/etc. for that class away without having to worry about your grade or how it would impact your GPA (esp. if you have unrealistic teachers). You also get to work and pace yourself on your own terms. Believe me, a lot of stuff we learn in school is really just spoonfeeding and cramming, given the massive curriculum and the expectations that are set.</p>
<p>IMO, it’s the pressure that makes it easy. Once you take away the pressure, a lot of people don’t have the discipline to self-study. </p>
<p>I don’t know if there are statistics out there, but I’m pretty sure there aren’t many self-studiers out there. It’s not only because many people don’t have the discipline to self-study, but also because many people don’t have the ability to. Many people can’t simply pick up a study guide and understand/memorize the material. Yes, that may be hard to believe for the people who self-studied 20 AP’s, but it’s true.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with self-studying for the sake of knowledge. I plan on self-studying for AP Environmental Science soon because I genuinely find the subject to be interesting. Also, my school doesn’t offer the course, so I don’t really have another way to learn the material. If my school did have the course, I would most definitely try to take it so I could have a reward for my hard work.</p>
<p>What does irk me are the kids who do the self-studying routine for a ton of exams just so they can say they got more fives than anybody else in their school. The fact that kids will cram for AP Psychology in a week is impressive but sad. If they actually cared about learning psychology, they would spend more than a week on the material. With that being said, it is undeniable that self-studying requires discipline and that most students are not capable of it.</p>
<p>Simply put, there’s no reason to waste a few weeks of your life memorizing a review book just for the sake of another number on a piece of paper.</p>
<p>I totally agree, Keasbey Nights</p>
<p>If you want to self-study, another option is to work with a teacher teaching the course. AB Math did not fit into my junior year schedule, so I asked a teacher teaching the course if I could take tests that were offered from time to time, just to make sure I wasn’t slacking off in my independent study. </p>
<p>It was great to have the resource of a teacher even though I never took the class. If I ever was really confused, I could ask for some help. I ended up getting 5. </p>
<p>Just something to think about.</p>
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<p>Or maybe the person simply wanted to get out of taking freshman psychology so he could take more courses he wanted to take in college / save money?.. Plus he did get quite a bit out of the course. one week is plenty of time. Perhaps he simply skipped out of the useless parts of the AP psych curriculum and focused on the parts of the curriculum that were useful?</p>
<p>@OP: Why did you even bother making the thread in the first place if you already had such firm opinions and knowledge about self-studying?</p>
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<p>it always depends on the person. self-studying may be easier for one person. taking the course may be easier for another person. there are many factors to consider when deciding to self-study or not that there’s no way to make up some universal answer to the question.</p>
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<p>This is a valid reason that crossed my mind when writing my post, but I dismissed it. Students who self-study tend to achieve highly and will apply to top colleges. These colleges often do not give credit for psychology, instead either disregarding the exam or using it for placement. I will admit that my post was more directed toward kids who self-study in order to reach National or State AP Scholar.</p>
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<p>Don’t be ridiculous. One cannot learn psychology in one week, even at the AP / freshman level. This is especially true when you consider that the student has other exams to study for.</p>
<p>I understand the reasoning behind self-studying; I merely disagree with some of it.</p>
<p>self study is easier if you are motivated and you can keep yourself on track</p>
<p>Traditional course if you aren’t motivated and need someone else to keep you on track.</p>
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<p>yes you can study for it one week. Your average psychology book is what? 700 pages more or less, that means 100 pages per day. Subtract 8 hours for sleep = 16, subtract 8 hours for misc recreation and you have 8 hours of studying each day. 100/8 = 12.5 pages per hour or one page every 4.8 minutes.</p>
<p>Not easy but definitely possible.</p>
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<p>Yes, but that last part of my quote holds true. And sure, you can study psychology, but you can’t learn it in a week. It’ll all be in your short-term memory.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure that the average self-studier who crams AP Psych in 1 week wouldn’t be studying off a 700 page textbook; he/she probably studies off a 200 page study guide.</p>
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<p>No, I am arguing the point as to whether it is more impressive to self-study and whether it is a good idea or not. I am saying that to self-study an exam when a class is offered is not a good idea since you may not get all of the methods involved in solving a problem that a teacher would present. You seemed to have missed the point of that argument.</p>
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<p>Ok, first, going more in-depth doesn’t make you any more prepared in college? Really? I find that very hard to believe. When you self-study you focus only on what is presented on the AP exam, which most certainly does not cover everything you should know to master the topic. So you are telling me that a person who takes a class and gets the full understanding of how Chemistry works (with labs and all) is no more prepared for college than the person who spends their time self-studying only what is necessary for the exam? I find that absurd. Also, the idea that a person will forget everything by college is a very pessimistic statement. How do you know if the person will? Learning is a process where we keep adding information to our pre-existing knowledge. Going over a certain topic may spark these “forgotten” concepts that could otherwise not be gained through independent studying. The idea of piling up work on top of your courseload really presents an argument against self-studying. Is it really a good idea to overextend yourself? No, and therefore this extra work that is really not necessary does not make sense.</p>
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<p>Yes, sometimes, and why is this? This is because the students have a more in-depth and clearer understanding of the other information. A “self-studier” simply has the general idea of the concepts that may not be as concrete as the others. This is where the whole idea of quantity vs. quality comes in. What is better, to have all the concepts learned but with a basic understanding, or to have not all (but almost all of them) mastered with a solid understanding? While the first may be better for the AP test, the latter is much better for the future. People forget the things that are not deeply rooted in their brains.</p>
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<p>Does it though? Does having this discipline automatically make it more impressive? I don’t find it more impressive when it comes with a lower understanding. This doesn’t mean that any self-studier is going to not have as solid of understanding, but the guidance of an instructor will make it more worth your time.</p>
<p>For example, this is not a subject, but it is the same concept. Suppose you are trying to learn the Cello on your own (in other words you are self-studying). You don’t really know where to start, so you get a book to guide you. You are very motivated, but that motivation lasts for the amount of time it takes you to realize the work involved. You tell yourself you will practice for 1 hour each day to hone your skills. So you continue with this under the guidance of your “Basic Method in Cello” guide. Soon, you will lose concentration easier and become distracted very easily. I don’t care who it is, that is what will happen eventually. You have no teacher to tell you to focus and keep you in line for where you should be in your lessons. It is much the same with a person self-studying a class. That is why so many self-studiers find themselves rushing to get in the last chapters near the end. Not because they have been going so much more in-depth, but because they have been distracted and neglecting their studies. It is not their fault, that is just what humans do. We have self-discipline to a certain level. Also, what if the cello player after 3 years of self-teaching decides to see a cello teacher just to make sure they are progressing correctly? Then when they get there they find that their fingering is all wrong and they must relearn because of all of the bad habits developed. The same can happen with a self-studier. I am arguing that there is no reason self-studying should be considered more impressive or should even be recommended.</p>
<p>Sure, a person can still get a 5 on the AP test, but that’s in the short run. The long run may not be as bright.</p>
<p>The problem I have with self-studying: to borrow a trendy phrase in education, you end up “teaching to the test”.</p>
<p>A lot of people here talk about how AP Psych is so easy to self-study. Oh, I barely had to work at all, I spent only 30 minutes a day reading, most of the work was reading the prep book, blah blah blah. Of course, if they were actually LEARNING psychology, it would not be so easy. But what you learn in a self-study is not the actual subject; unless you are very careful to avoid this, what you learn in a self-study is only the narrow subset of the subject that is likely to be on the AP test.</p>
<p>And for a example of why this sucks, consider the AP compsci test. It is quite possible to self-study for a 5 without being able to write an actual program, because the test does not cover input or output at all. Someone who assumes they know basic programming just because they got a 5 is sorely mistaken.</p>
<p>“I am saying that to self-study an exam when a class is offered is not a good idea since you may not get all of the methods involved in solving a problem that a teacher would present.”</p>
<p>I agree… one should take the AP class if it’s offered. However, I don’t think people should take AP classes just because they’re AP, unless they’re genuinely interested in the subject. So if one was going into the humanities and the only AP offered in the school was AP Chemistry, then I’d say the person should self-study a humanity instead.</p>
<p>“Ok, first, going more in-depth doesn’t make you any more prepared in college? Really? I find that very hard to believe. When you self-study you focus only on what is presented on the AP exam, which most certainly does not cover everything you should know to master the topic. So you are telling me that a person who takes a class and gets the full understanding of how Chemistry works (with labs and all) is no more prepared for college than the person who spends their time self-studying only what is necessary for the exam? I find that absurd. Also, the idea that a person will forget everything by college is a very pessimistic statement. How do you know if the person will? Learning is a process where we keep adding information to our pre-existing knowledge. Going over a certain topic may spark these “forgotten” concepts that could otherwise not be gained through independent studying. The idea of piling up work on top of your courseload really presents an argument against self-studying. Is it really a good idea to overextend yourself? No, and therefore this extra work that is really not necessary does not make sense.”</p>
<p>Let’s put it this way. If you asked me to recall the stuff I self-studied 2 years ago versus the stuff I learned as a course 2 years ago, I’d recall the stuff I self-studied better. Why? Because there’s a difference between when I’ve stared at a textbook, tried to understand the concept, and taught the concept to myself and when I’ve been spoon-fed the same information. So in actuality, I think I’ve learned the material better by self-studying this. Yes, this may not represent the majority, but it is for me.</p>
<p>The other thing is that self-studying could really improve one’s studying skill. I know people (first-hand) who easily ace classes without studying/ taking notes/ doing the homework. Self-studying an AP would probably be the first thing those people have ever attempted to study for and the people finally learn how to study. Again, this may not represent the majority, but I imagine that many self-studiers are like this. </p>
<p>“Yes, sometimes, and why is this? This is because the students have a more in-depth and clearer understanding of the other information. A “self-studier” simply has the general idea of the concepts that may not be as concrete as the others. This is where the whole idea of quantity vs. quality comes in. What is better, to have all the concepts learned but with a basic understanding, or to have not all (but almost all of them) mastered with a solid understanding? While the first may be better for the AP test, the latter is much better for the future. People forget the things that are not deeply rooted in their brains.”</p>
<p>Is this just an assumption, misconception, or what? I’m offended that you’re suggesting that I don’t understand the material by self-studying as well, if not better, than people who took it as a course. Quite often, I find that I understand the material more in-depth than my classmates who took it as a course. I often get asked for help from people who are taking the course- even though I’ve self-studied the whole thing. Plus, I learn the material of what’s not covered in the course (since, as mentioned earlier, most courses don’t have enough time to cover everything). </p>
<p>“You have no teacher to tell you to focus and keep you in line for where you should be in your lessons.”</p>
<p>That’s the whole point why self-studying is so impressive. Self-studying requires discipline, which many people don’t have. </p>
<p>“That is why so many self-studiers find themselves rushing to get in the last chapters near the end.”</p>
<p>Again, is this an assumption? This isn’t true for many self-studiers either. </p>
<p>As for your analogy… as a matter of fact, I’ve taught myself several instruments and I find that I’m more determined & focused than many other students who actually have a teacher. So I don’t understand what you’re talking about. </p>
<p>“Also, what if the cello player after 3 years of self-teaching decides to see a cello teacher just to make sure they are progressing correctly?”</p>
<p>You’re right about the part that it’s possible to learn something incorrectly. It may take a long time for a musician to correct bad habits (since learning a musical instrument is pretty much procedural learning/ non-declarative memory), but Sciences (and the other subjects even more so) involve mostly declarative memory so it shouldn’t take too long to correct.</p>
<p>amarkov, I find that also happens a lot with class, not just self-studiers. In grade 11 Chemistry, you don’t actually learn the actual subject Chemistry… you’re just learning whatever the narrow parts of chemistry whatever the curriculum tells you to learn. And plus, I find that more people who take the course learn the material just for the sake of marks than self-studiers who learn it just for the sake of passing the AP exam.</p>
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<p>I would have to also agree with you on this. If the AP is not offered at the school, then self-studying is obviously the only method. I also agree that people should not take AP classes just because they are AP, but people should also not self-study AP just because it is AP (and they want the National AP Scholar thing).</p>
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<p>You are speaking from only your own experience and therefore making a general assumption. In my own experience, most of my AP classes certainly do not “spoon-feed” information. Teachers provide students with tons of extra material from their own experience for the student to look over. This material certainly provides for a deeper understanding and a more fulfilling experience. Like you have said, when self-studying a person must sit down and try to consume simply the material in their textbooks. They do not have the extra materials that the teacher provides from their “professional” knowledge. Trying to memorize information from a textbook will not help a person remember nearly as much as if they had a textbook+supplementary information+a teachers assistance.</p>
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<p>But do people really self-study to improve their study skills? A good student will attempt to hone their study skills while taking a class. This is also beside the point for making self-studying impressive.</p>
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<p>This view I took is not something that even warrants offense. You are comparing people with two different attitudes toward studying. Think of someone who is equal in their study skills and motivation. Who is going to do better and have a better understanding? The one who self-studied or the one who took a year long class. I think the one who took the class will. I don’t know if you personally have a better understanding or not, but think of someone who is just as motivated towards studying and such as yourself who is taking the class. They will get a lot more out of the subject then you would self-studying.</p>
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<p>Now look at the college’s perspective. Who do you think the colleges will pick as having a better understanding of the subject? The self-studier or class taker. Colleges don’t know you personally or the course offered at the school, so they have to assume that the course is comprehensive and comparable to a college course. Therefore, in the colleges view, a person who took the class will be more prepared and have technically taken the college class. That is the point to AP. It is not exactly meant to be self-studied, it is supposed to assume that you have taken a class comparable to if you took a college class. Therefore, the AP acts as the college final at the end of the course. Do colleges view self-studying as more impressive? I doubt it. Now if your school offers no AP courses, but you self-study and take the AP tests, this will be impressive. Not because of the fact that you self-studied, but because you showed the determination to do courses that are not offered. If you self-studied an AP that is offered at your school, I don’t find that impressive. Colleges just see that you took a course and took the test. They usually don’t even care if you self-studied or not. In a colleges perspective, it is not any more impressive.</p>
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<p>This is not an assumption, this is a conclusion based off of not only many people on this forum site, but also from my own experience with students at other schools. Who are these “many self-studiers” you speak of? The ones you know at your school? That is not a very good sample group because it is from a single school or area.</p>
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<p>As a matter of fact, I’ve also taught myself several insturments. So I am not speaking with nothing to back it up. Again, it depends on the sample group you are talking about. Some people are forced, whether by parents or others, to pursue an instrument. You must take people of the same level. Do you think that your self-teaching of an instrument is better than someone who is just as motivated and determined as you who has a teacher? Not to assume, but I would say no. You have to compare people of equal aspects, not of two ones.</p>
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<p>But, why waste your time trying to correct your understanding with the guidance of a professional when you can simply of had a teacher teach it to you correctly in the first place? With a teacher’s guidance, a person can generally more accurately obtain information. I am basing this off of the general AP courses. Of course sometimes there will be a bad teacher, but when making a general statement this does not really have any effect.</p>
<p>I am not saying that a person shouldn’t self-study, as I think it is a great alternative if there is no course available or if it is impossible to fit it into your schedule. I just don’t find it to be more impressive (especially in the colleges eyes) to have self-studied. So if self-studying is indeed more impressive, then shouldn’t I have just self-studied all of my AP classes and then colleges would have found me to be a very impressive student? I highly doubt it. I am self-studying Physics C because it is not offered at my school. That makes sense, but I don’t think I am more impressive because of it.</p>
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<p>You know you’re a CCer when you write 9-paragraph posts during Summer vacation so you can argue with a random internet guy about self-studying APs.</p>