<p>This is a repost from a while back, with some changes...
I am going to be a senior next year, and will be applying to Cornell ED.
Now, I want to work in business probably, however, I want to study a more liberal-arts type education in college, and then grad school maybe get an MBA or something like that, but definitely NO AEM for me.
My 3 ideas right now are:
PAM (economics concentration) at College HumEc
ORIE - College of Engineering
Economics / Math Double major at CAS
Now what I am considering for choosing a major of these are a few things: (I know they are different programs, but they all have things that I like)
Cost: I know as a NYS resident, PAM is the best option pricewise.
Difficulty to enter - as a male with a 1480/1600 (790 M), pretty good ECs, hopefully good essays, 2380 SAT IIs (800 Math II, 800 US, 780 Chem), a Perfect GPA (never less than an A) I am wondering if any of these would be easier or harder to get into (unhooked). I mean that which one, if applied to would I have the highest chance to be accepted to.
Workload/Difficulty - Strangely, I want a difficult major, just because I really do love challenges. The more difficult the better, and I do love math, have some Math ECs so yeah.
Job Placement - Which one has the best job placement in business/wall street? Are they all good for this type of work?
So basically I am a really math/history oriented student, I want to study economics and math definitely (preferably heavy on the math also), but I am not sure from which angle. I think PAM is probably off the list because it is too qualitative, but someone could convince me otherwise. ORIE looks exceedingly interesting other than the studying physics/biology because I plain up dislike science. I kinda want to study economics from a mathematical point of view, and ORIE with a minor in some sort of management I think would be great especially because engineering is really heavy on the applied math aspect.
I understand these are some key assumptions that I made: like I would actually get in :P, but thanks for reading!</p>
<p>Based on your post you’re probably better off just being an A&S student in at least the Economics department. Even in Human Ecology, you would still be constrained to a certain number of credits outside of that college. The same thing would also apply in AEM in CALS. If you’re really focused on taking a lot of “liberal arts” courses, you should apply to A&S as an Economics major or perhaps even undecided. If you only want to take some courses in “liberal arts”, I don’t see what’s stopping you from going into a more directly business related majors such as AEM/ILR.</p>
<p>Moreover, Cornell is very heavy on its applicants fitting into the school. For this reason, I do not advise applying to the engineering school since engineering doesn’t seem to be your primary interest. Those folks who do the business (AEM) minor in the engineering school are primarily focused on engineering.</p>
<p>Go for CAS. No single Cornell major gives you the decisive edge in the business world, especially since it looks like you’ve ruled out AEM/Hotel. ORIE is alright, but it’ll probably get you closer to the technical side of the financial services industry (and therefore many ORIE grads have strong placement in that area of Wall Street) as opposed to the ‘core’ of the business world. However, given that you also seem interested in a liberal arts education, and because you don’t seem dead set on what you want to do in the future, CAS seems like the best path for you. I’d say start in CAS (if you get in), take a couple of courses across the disciplines, but try to pursue the engineering math sequence and a Java/Matlab course freshman year, which would make switching into ORIE a breeze if you find your interests consolidating in that direction.</p>
<p>Yeah I like that I could switch but if I ever do want to swtich from CAS to CoE, I would have to take physics courses and I feel like I should take those as early as possible? CAS seems great but I also heard it’s harder to get into, and is it mathy enough?
I think I misspoke about the liberal-arts part, I mean not qualitative/vocational training (like I heard AEM was like) or classes like marketing, strategy, accounting.
Most of my extracurriculars and scores are definitely on the math side (800s on my math scores or close to it, mathletes, chess/debate (not math but similarly analytical)) and also I know I want to study math that’s all I’m 100% sure of, and I want to do some sort of quantitative job in business with preferably an MBA or something of the sort. I have an interest in ORIE just because I like computer science and math haha, and a primary focus in ORIE wouldn’t be bad which is why I like the AEM/management minor. The arts and sciences seems like a good idea too but it doesn’t seem like I would love the extreme abstraction of economic and mathematical theory</p>
<p>It’s not harder to get into CAS than Engineering. In any case, you seem to be in the ballpark for both. ‘Mathy enough’ is a question that can’t be answered with a generalization - the toughest freshman math sequence at Cornell is brutal and it’s said to require 20hrs/wk work (outside of class) for that sequence alone; the easiest sequence, meanwhile, is the standard calculus track and it’s generally unproblematic. If you’re coming in with a decent (AP Calc BC or slightly above) type background the linear algebra/multivariable sequence is good - challenging but not devilish. The upper-level math classes are similarly varied, with honors versions of analysis, linear algebra, combinatorics, algebra, etc if you need the challenge.</p>
<p>I don’t want to be pushy about AEM, but it has a finance specialization with very specific courses if that’s your thing (it’s just that every AEM major takes a required course in management, marketing, accounting, and finance). There are a lot of options for folks who want to go into business, though. Although AEM tends to be the most selective one, folks from ILR, PAM, Hotel, Econ, Engineering, Math, and maybe other majors can all wind up on Wall Street. There are plenty of options thankfully.</p>
<p>I see what you’re saying. Too many decisions… I want to start writing my essays soon though so I really have to think deeply about this. Right now if you couldn’t tell I think I’m leaning more towards the OR major in engineering, but I really need to be sure. Moreover I have to make sure I enjoy economics and calculus next year (AP Macro, Micro, and BC) so I can’t be sure yet. Right now I’m just going over some lectures on all of the different subjects.
AEM really isn’t my thing 1 because it’s the toughest to get into and 2 because I don’t want to really study finance or accounting, I always wanted to study something with innovation or applicability to mesh fields together.</p>
<p>I’m gonna bump this up, I took an AEM class over the summer and really didn’t enjoy it, so now I’m still picking between Math/Econ Double major and ORIE.</p>
<p>I’m heavily leaning towards ORIE and here’s my reasoning, you can correct me or convince me if this is incorrect (in fact that would be great).</p>
<p>ORIE teaches a skill more than math/economics does, those teach generally abstract concepts and problem solving skills, rather than something marketable such as something learned in ORIE, so if I took ORIE as a major, and minored in something like applied math, econ, or math, I could take interesting courses in those subject areas, but still learn the skills I need to succeed in the job world.</p>
<p>I did well on my Physics AP/grade for the class so I am reconsidering my slight disdain for the sciences, and I don’t necessarily want a liberal arts education if it could hinder job prospects or depth in a field for a breadth of knowledge.</p>
<p>I also talked to a Math/Econ double major going into his senior year, and I asked him the same question. He told me that even with the applied route in math and economics, there is still largely theory being discussed in class, and while it’s ok for law school, he advised against it for business because it wouldn’t be as successful in the quantitative/financial sector of the metaphorical wall street.</p>
<p>Any other opinions? Of course this is all under the huge assumption that I get into the school, which is a completely different topic!
Thanks!</p>
<p>I did the econ major and enjoyed it. If you are looking for difficulty, PAM is pretty easy so you should rule that out. Econ doesn’t require a lot of work, but that doesn’t mean the exams aren’t difficult. If you are into the liberal arts education, definitely do econ. I really enjoyed the whole curriculum. You can always take some “skills” courses as well. From the experiences of my friends who graduated in econ, econ is very valued and skills coming out of undergrad aren’t as important as you might think, since good firms will put you through training programs anyway. Econ signals you are a good critical thinker, which is generally more valued than skills coming out of undergrad, especially for the type of jobs you are looking into. If you want to continue onto your MBA, you’ll pick up “skills” courses anyway. </p>
<p>Do what you enjoy. Scoring well on AP Physics, and wanting to study physics are two entirely different things. Most students at Cornell, from English majors to engineers, did well in all their subjects, whether they liked them or not.</p>
<p>Yeah I know I do well all around, but I thought that I wasn’t good at physics, it was a whole confidence thing because I really enjoyed it.</p>
<p>I’m really not sure what I want to study. I’m really interested in the courses in ORIE and in Econ, and Financial engineering as a masters seems like something I’d enjoy/be really good at. I’m not sure about the MBA anymore, the original post is a bit outdated since my summer began after my internship/program at cornell, so my views are changing a bit.
Liberal arts isn’t something necessary for my education, but I guess it couldn’t hurt.</p>
<p>All I can then say is look at a sample of courses and course descriptions for both programs, and decide what you like. ORIE is probably the most flexible of the engineering school (I could be wrong, since obviously I wasn’t an engineer) so you can still squeeze in a fair amount of courses completely unrelated to your major.</p>
<p>I looked at all of the courses/descriptions haha and it’s still a grueling choice. I think what it comes down to is which school I’d have a better chance of getting into, the job placement, and the graduation requirements for each school, because I feel like a lot of courses overlap and the end goals for each major are similar.</p>
<p>I don’t see how there could be significant differences in job placement. Econ will generally give you a greater variety of career options, but based on what you said your interests are, they are about equal. CAS graduation requirements I know can seem intimidating, but usually it’s pretty painless. It’s only usually hard for people who really don’t want to take classes outside their major. </p>
<p>As for acceptance rates, it’ll be hard to compare. I know CAS generally seems harder to get into, but my impression (could be wrong) is that engineering is more self-selecting for very strong math/science-types.</p>
<p>The CAS graduation requirements aren’t looking great lol, but the major requirements look fine, but also the Engineering requirements I heard were really tough as well. Could you say what your freshman year looked like as an econ major?
If I were to do A&S I would like to study Math, Economics, and Government, those are my main interests outside of Engineering (probability, statistics, etc. are things that I liked about ORIE), but I’m not sure I could fit all of those in my schedule and still get a good grasp on the skills needed in finance, but I guess you said those don’t really matter.</p>
<p>The CAS requirements are a lot easier when you discover courses that double (and sometimes triple) fill requirements. I think I’ve taken 2-3 courses that filled filled both parts of the breadth requirement. With Econ, you fill your SBA category and MQR requirements. Then all you really need are 3 of the other humanities categories (which you can fill with govt classes, and if you do it right, some of those govt classes will fill your breadth requirement). After than, you got 2 science courses, 2 FWS, and 1-3 language classes (depending on your language background). </p>
<p>If econ is 8 courses, those other requirements will be at most 12 additional courses to econ, but probably less. Assuming 32 classes for graduation or 4 per semester, you are still doing well. I’m not counting the elective requirements since those are waived if you double major. </p>
<p>My guess is you would take the 3190-3200 sequence for econ (intro stats & intro econometrics), although don’t let the name fool you. Even though they are “intro”, they are quite difficult and among the most advanced (if not most) advanced undergrad stats courses at Cornell. PAM or AEM stats would be more appropriately labelled “intro.” You’d probably also take Econ 3330 (Financial Economics). In addition to that, based on your desire for “skills” courses, you should probably take an accounting class and maybe 2-3 ORIE classes that caught your interest. </p>
<p>I just looked it up, and there is an operations research concentration. So if you double in math, I’ve brought you up to at most 29/32 classes (probably less, depending on your language background, etc.).</p>
<p>Wait so if I double in math I could learn some stuff in Operations research? So if I apply to econ/math, and say I don’t love it, I could switch right because I would be doing the math track. This is really helpful thanks, and for language I’m taking AP Spanish next year, I got a 5 on AP stat so what does that do as well?</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the help, I am back in the middle now with no clear decision grr!
Did econ have a manageable workload?</p>
<p>I literally only know what I just Googled, but there is an Operations Research math concentration for the math major: [Cornell</a> Math - The Undergraduate Major in Mathematics](<a href=“http://www.math.cornell.edu/Undergraduate/Major/major.html]Cornell”>http://www.math.cornell.edu/Undergraduate/Major/major.html)</p>
<p>I actually started a new language at Cornell, but I believe if I had continued my French, I would have only needed 1 course to fill the requirement. If I remember correctly, as long as you can place into and complete a 200+ level class, you’re set. A 5 on AP stat will give you credit, but won’t do anything in terms of filling requirements. AP Stat is NOTHING like econ stats. From what (little) I know of other courses AP, AP Stat is more like AEM, PAM, or ILR stats. Econ 3190-3200 are much more advanced (though if you’re doing a math major, my guess is they won’t seem nearly as intense for you by the time you take the sequence). You can also take Econ 3210 instead of 3190-3200, but you seem like you’d want to take the more math-intensive sequence. Econ 3210 is “Applied Econometrics.”</p>
<p>The econ workload is not bad. Problem sets vary by course professor, but from my experience, they usually aren’t even weekly and most don’t take more than a few hours. I would guess only 2 or 3 of my courses gave 10, in a 14 week semester. That said, the exams are relatively challenging, especially compared to most of my other classes. So for your exams, you’ll probably want to study a fair amount for each of them, but that’s very concentrated work efforts. I would say most nights you aren’t doing anything for econ. Then once every 10-14 days you work for several hours on a problem set. Then 2-3 days prior to an exam, you’ll spend a lot of time studying, but that’s only twice a semester (not including finals).</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the information, this is great! I’m just not really sure how a double major and single major like you did are different. This is just because how did you fill all your extra classes, because the requirements for econ are only 8 classes, did you just take many more econ classes? What else did you take? If I don’t need to do a math major I guess I wouldn’t, but I feel like a bit more structure while keeping freedom for a few classes is ok also right?</p>
<p>The econ major seems manageable and flexible, and if it really does have similar placement to ORIE I would say that I am going to apply to this major! </p>
<p>Could any 5s instead of just giving credit waive introductory classes and give room for electives/more advanced classes?
What classes gave you the most work and/or the most challenging/stressful tests?</p>
<p>I did a double major in Economics and Government and double minors in International Relations and German Studies. I was quite busy ;)</p>
<p>Econ is a fairly common to double with precisely because it doesn’t have a lot of requirements. In my experiences it seems those that only single in econ and don’t do anything else either 1) Couldn’t decide on a major until very late, so needed a major they could quickly complete 2) Didn’t want to work too hard and only took the bare minimum to graduate. 3) Took a lot more than the 8 classes. I think when I graduated, even with my other stuff, I took 10 or 11 econ courses.</p>
<p>If you got a 5 on AP Lit (or maybe Language or maybe both) I think you can place out of 1 FWS. AP Econ for getting out of the intros can be useful too. Other than that, I didn’t really use any of my AP credit.</p>
<p>You also might want to explore Econ/Computer Science as a double major. That will give you the skills to put you above the competition for the types of careers you are looking into. My one econ friend who did this is starting a job with a base salary of $100k+benefits. If CS doesn’t interest you, Econ/Math will be a pretty powerful combination in my opinion since you’ll know economics, but also have math skills. </p>
<p>To set yourself up for finance/Wall St. in my opinion this is what you ideally want to take (this doesn’t mean it’s necessary, but it helps):
- A finance class (if you do econ, Financial Economics is the obvious choice)
- Above average math (Linear Algebra and Multivariable Calculus; you clearly have interests beyond this)
- Any accounting class
- Econometrics</p>
<p>Your ambitions already put you above what I would consider “ideal” for the type of career you want.</p>