Which one is more like Lawrence?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I am a HS junior looking for safety schools. I am already basically guaranteed admission at SUNY Geneseo (IK many people are saying that Geneseo has reached the point where it is no longer a safety for anyone, but my guidance counselor says I am a shoe-in with my stats and the cross country/track coach likes me/wants me to come out for the team). However, I am looking for a private LAC that I can use as a safety as well. </p>

<p>I really like Lawrence University and maybe this could be my other safety. However, I don't thinks it gives comparable merit aid to its competitors: kalamazoo and beloit. I like both kalamazoo and beloit and that they have amazing merit aid/financial aid opportunities but there are nitpicky things about both. I don't like the fact that alot of kalamazoo students are local and I have heard that alot of the time the campus is empty due to everyone leaving for study abroad at the same time. Also, I've heard conservatives are ostracized (im not really conservative, more of a moderate, but a lot of people in my town have called me out for disagreeing with some of Obama's political actions because simply 'Obamas amazing'). I've heard the same thing about beloit, and that its town is an old, warn down, industrial city, and everyone is an activist of some kind (im not sure if this is a plus or a minus to be honest). </p>

<p>So there are a few options. Hopefully someone convinces me that Lawrence has equal merit aid to the other schools and I don't have to worry about choosing. Otherwise, I might still apply to Lawrence, but I think I might have to apply to one of the other two as well. I like Lawrence's individualized approach, research opportunities, diverse student body (when it comes to politics and personalities), and location. I'm indifferent to the music program. Which school do you think offers academic and social opportunities most similar to Lawrence? (I'm thinking kalamzoo vs. beloit, but who knows maybe you have another idea)</p>

<p>Right now here is my List (if this will help you at all)</p>

<p>Schools I am 99% sure I will apply to
West Point
Grinnell
Colorado College
Franklin and Marshall
University of Rochester
SUNY Geneseo</p>

<p>Schools I am Considering
Carleton (pretty sure i'll apply here), Pomona, Swarthmore, Amherst, Whitman, Occidental, Lawrence, Kalamazoo, Beloit, </p>

<p>Schools I considered for a while but ruled out
Goucher, Rhodes, Williams, Kenyon, Princeton, Cornell (in state tuition at college of agriculture and life sciences), Dickinson, JHU, UCSD, </p>

<p>My stats/major interests etc. are in most of my other threads if u want to see them<br>
(not on those threads: ACT score as a junior on september 12th: 32, will retake)</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

2

<p>I am curious- have you visited any of these schools? The town of Appleton is very different from Rochester and I am sure the others vary. What are you planning on studying? And what size school do you want? That being said I don’t think a conservative is going to be an outcast at any school in the midwest.</p>

3

<p>I know Lawrence vicariously through friends…and all rave about it. Its one of those off the radar screen amazing schools that change lives. Sometimes safety schools are the best places to attend college and Lawrence fits that bill nicely. You will get plenty of aid from them if its a safety for you…the reach schools are the ones who will give you no scholarships or crummy financial aid. If Lawrence excites you, then do it.</p>

4

<p>I haven’t visited Lawrence but I have visited U of Rochester, seeing as I live in a suburb of rochester. That is part of the reason why U of R is on the list; albeit the fact that it is in a sort of unattractive area of the city. I definitely don’t think U of R is in my ideal college location. </p>

<p>I prefer suburban/rural locations, but nothing too rural (like I want a legitimate town). IK that occidental also doesn’t fit this description and thats why I am hesitant about it. I prefer smaller LACs, considering my current list…
I might have gotten you confused by schools I was ‘once considering’, sorry, not exactly sure why I included that. </p>

<p>I currently have visited:
Franklin and Marshall
Swarthmore
Haverford (didn’t like at all)
University of Rochester
SUNY Geneseo</p>

<p>and am planning to visit in the very near future
West Point
Amherst
St. Lawrence</p>

<p>I don’t think my parents are going to be willing to travel any further to visit colleges until i actually get into one of them and am considering it. </p>

<p>Right now Im looking at neuroscience, but could accomplish alot of the same things through a psych major (if need be). Also of interest are econ, international relations, physics. SO basically, I have no idea. </p>

<p>And I’ll trust you when you say, “I don’t think a conservative is going to be an outcast at any school in the midwest,” but I just got this perception when one of the first lines of the Kaplan guide to colleges on Beloit reads, “The joke around campus is you can be anything here but a Republican.” But it could be just that, a joke.</p>

5

<p>STATS
93-94 average</p>

<p>Currently taking 4 AP’s (Language and Composition, Chem, US History, Psychology)
Took AP Euro sophomore year and got a 5</p>

<p>I am attending a competitive public high school in the Rochester area that does not rank</p>

<p>took the ACT in September for the first time and got a 32, I will probably retake it again
I got a 770 on SAT II for world history</p>

<p>Took the PSAT in October but don’t know the results yet</p>

<p>ECs
Will be a member of the JV/Varsity XC team all 4 years, but unfortunately was not named a captain (our junior class is absolutely stacked)</p>

<p>Member of the JV Nordic Ski Team in 8th grade and Varsity in 9th</p>

<p>JV/Varsity Indoor Track 10th-12th (hopefully be named captain)
JV/Varsity Outdoor Track 9-12th (hopefully be named captain)</p>

<p>Member of Model UN club freshman year
Sophomore Year- Co-VP of Model UN
Junior Year- Secretary of Model UN
Attending a Model UN conference (THIMUN) in the Hague this January for 2 weeks
Multiple Award Winner, have experience chairing committees
Could be named Secretariat senior year (basically selective group of 4 or so individuals in the area who organize the conferences)</p>

<p>member of LitMag staff sophomore year
Co-Editor of the LitMag Junior Year</p>

<p>Member of town youth court junior year (it was founded that year)
most likely will be named an adviser as a senior</p>

<p>Participated in an Internship at Rochester General Hospital in the Neurology Department over the summer</p>

6

<p>Good stats. Everyone has an opinion and you should listen…but in the end its YOUR opinion that matters the most. My view of undergraduate studies is a bit counter to the conventional wisdom of going to the elite schools and take neuroscience as an undergraduate. I think you should do whatever you want as an undergraduate but study a broad based courseload because it is the only (and perhaps last time) you will have that opportunity. You can do neuroscience in graduate school or medical school. I have nothing against the Ivy League or uber elites, its just they are often over hyped and the people there (students) are often full of themselves and hyper competitive. There are SOME uber elites I can recommend to you, such as Washington University in St. Louis. Stunning campus. They also have a program that studies the brain from three angles…scientifically, philosophically and artistically. </p>

<p>But again, Lawrence is an excellent school. Appleton is a lot of fun and Green Bay is very close. Kids venture down to Milwaukee or Chicago for big city fun. Its wicked cold in the Winter but you are from Rochester so you understand that. U Rochester is an outstanding school. Don’t discount it either. </p>

<p>If you need the money, then focus on match and safety schools. They will give you the most. Undergraduate school is about learning, maturing, and finding yourself. Graduate school is about granular focused learning…leave that for then. </p>

<p>When you find “your school” you will know it. Yes, visiting after you are accepted is a better focus point…but frankly your window is about ten days…and you cant visit 8 schools in 10 days…or do it well. So visit what you can now…and try to narrow down your list as best you can. MOST colleges offer spring break and summer break college visit days. (WashU does it in June…its a great program. An excellent dog and pony show…very well organized.) </p>

<p>If you are considering Lawrence then Northwestern may also fit your interests. </p>

<p>I like Lawrence and Lawrence people. Solid people, caring, with strong academics. From there you can go anywhere.</p>

7

<p>Your stats are pretty solid, and I suspect they would give you a reasonable shot at scholarships at all three of Lawrence, Beloit and Kalamazoo. I have visited all of these schools multiple times. My older son applied to all and is now very happily at Kalamazoo. My younger son will apply to Lawrence and may apply to Beloit. (Doesn’t want to go to the same school as older brother, so K is out.)</p>

<p>A couple things. First, while a majority of Kalamazoo’s students are from Michigan that still means there are a lot of kids from everywhere else. My son is not from Michigan and he has made friends with kids from all over the country, from Maine to Michigan to Oregon. Second, we also wondered about whether it was a “suitcase school” where the student body clears out on the weekends, but he hasn’t found that to be true at all. Last, it’s only the Junior class that is gone (predominantly during the fall term) on foreign study (in fact that’s where my son is now) and since that is the norm the campus doesn’t seem “empty” at all. On the contrary it’s a very lively school all three terms. Anyway, it’s a terrific school and I encourage you to consider it.</p>

<p>Lawrence and Beloit are also excellent schools. All three are pretty typically liberal as you would expect secular LACs to be, but as was noted above, this is the midwest and people tend to be quite respectful of each other’s views. Beloit is a little more “crunchy granola” than Kalamazoo and Lawrence, but that’s style over substance. Lawrence and Kalamazoo are in small cities, while Beloit is in a large town. Definitely more to do in Kalamazoo and Appleton than in Beloit, but none of these places are Chicago or Boston. And Beloit has the advantage of being about 45 minutes from Madison. All three colleges tend to have so much going on on campus that there is plenty for students to do at all of them.</p>

<p>Good luck in your search.</p>

8

<p>So right now I am pretty sure I can only apply to one of these three schools. And besides some small differences, I can’t rally differentiate between them. </p>

<p>Sure, beloit has a more activisty vibe and is in a town. Kalamazoo has their K-plan, with internships and study abroad. Lawrence has the conservatory, slightly less merit aid and alot of one on one classes. But to be honest, I’m not sure I can really pick one school over the other 2. IK i can’t have anyone make the decision for me and I have plenty of time to decide, but I am pretty darn sure we aren’t doing any midwest visit trips, so I won’t be able to visit any of these schools. I’d feel like if I had to chose one I’d be doing it blindly. So right now I guess I am sort of ‘stuck in a rut’ and not completely sure what to do about it- any suggestions are awesome.</p>

<p>PS. i dont mean to sound self pitying or anything, sorry if it comes off that way</p>

9

<p>I am from the Midwest, and all three are wonderful schools. One thing you might look at is the school calendars. I know Lawrence is on 10-week trimesters, but I don’t know about the other two. This might be something to help you weed out one or two of the three. </p>

<p>You might also see if any of them offers a free app. if it’s done on line. If so, it could be a freebie, so to speak, and not really have to count as an app., if money is an issue.</p>

10

<p>Have you looked at Knox College? They’re an ACM college like Beloit and Grinnell. It’s a rural setting (Galesburg, IL, town of 34,000). They have a Neuroscience major, and are also strong in Econ and International Relations (I don’t know about physics). Knox is also on a trimester schedule like Lawrence, so you take three classes each 10-week trimester. They offer a lot of merit aid, but from what I’ve heard the champion in that department would be Grinnell with its gigantic endowment.</p>

11

<p>I also thought about Knox. My daughter goes there and loves it. She is an international relations major. They have a strong biology department with ties to Rush Medical. Good financial aid. Knox is located in a small city but most of the activity takes place on campus. It is a small school- 1400. Slightly liberal but they did have John Ashcroft visit campus last year.</p>

<p>If you let these schools know you are interested in them, they will be glad to talk to you and answer questions. Some have live chat sessions that may help. Knox, Grinnell, Beloit and Lawrence are all good schools and you probably can’t go wrong with any of them. Check out the classic book Colleges that Change Lives by Loren Pope. That may also give you a little more feeling for these schools.</p>

12

<p>The conservative CollegeGuide.org site gives their “green light” approval to only 3 LACs in the USNWR top 30: the Claremont Colleges (collectively, including super-selective Pomona), Davidson, and Colorado College. Even though, especially compared to the others, Colorado College is actually considered rather liberal.</p>

<p>Of all the Associated Colleges of the Midwest (which include Lawrence and Beloit), with the possible exception of Macalester (if you like cities and don’t mind cold weather), I think Colorado College wins hands down for the best location. In a city, but right at the foot of the Rockies.</p>

<p>It’s a little less selective than Carleton or Grinnell, but for the OP I’d say it’s a match/likely, not a safety school. For that matter, I would not consider Lawrence or Beloit safeties if you need FA. Too expensive. Though most of the ACM colleges do grant merit as well as need-based aid (unlike the NESCAC schools).</p>

13

<p>Sorry, tk this is false: ^“I would not consider Lawrence or Beloit safeties if you need FA. Too expensive.”</p>

<p>Beloit is on the 100% FA need met list (as is Kalamazioo) In addition they have a fantastic merit opportunity. OP is very informed on this and would be in the running for significant merit. The total cost to attend such a school can end up less than an in state university - depending on circumstances.</p>

<p>I don’t know much about K but I believe that what I’ve heard is very similar to B - there is not one all encompassing culture - there is room for a whole range of opinions! </p>

<p>Colorado College, not a safety for anyone because of low admit rate, is already on OP’s list.</p>

<p>I second above poster who says contact the schools directly to get more information - explain that you can’t visit but are a junior as colleges are beginning crunch time for this year’s applications. I also would advise to find a way to apply to all three. Each school you are considering for a safety is great, but each has its own ‘vibe.’ Remember you have time - keep all three on your list for now, and see what happens as time goes on. But definitely take advantage of how personal small colleges are and get in contact with them! Many years ago H left the east coast to attend a small midwestern college (turned down Carnegie Mellon and others in the same league to go) because they were so personal!</p>

<p>I think you have a great list, very realistic if what you posted is accurate. It is very smart to add a safety outside of Geneseo</p>

14

<p>

</p>

<p>So let me rephrase that…
I would not consider Lawrence or Beloit safeties if your family cannot comfortably afford to send you to either school without significant merit aid, and if your Expected Family Contribution (EFC) is likely to meet or exceed the full cost of attendance. I take it from the OP’s emphasis on merit aid that need-based aid may be unlikely.</p>

<p>Tuition, room and board at Lawrence exceeds $41K. Compare to SUNY Geneseo at <$16K in-state. 90 of 382 students entering Lawrence in 2008-2009 received merit aid averaging $13,890. Even if the OP is one of the fortunate 90 or so merit grant recipients, Lawrence may be significantly more expensive than an in-state public like SUNY Geneseo. So unless the family is able, and willing, to make up any difference, it may not be appropriate to think of Lawrence as a “safety”. I would expect Beloit’s FA practices to be similar to Lawrence’s (though it does not seem to post its common data set online.) As for Kalamazoo, 174 of 364 students entering in 2008-2009 received merit aid averaging $10,455.</p>

<p>In other words, being “in the running for significant merit” at a school does not necessarily make that school a true admission and financial safety. Merit grants typically represent a discounting strategy to entice students away from more selective, prestigious schools (or to make it a little less burdensome to move up from public tuition). They generally aren’t designed to make expensive schools truly affordable for typical middle class families (who often have less idle cash available than the eye-popping EFC numbers suggest they do.)</p>

<p>I’m not saying don’t apply (or do apply) to Lawrence, Beloit, or Kalamazoo. Schools like these (in admission and aid practices) may occupy a good place in the strategy. Just not the “safety” place. Though to some people, you really only need one true admissions and financial safety anyway (SUNY Geneseo?)</p>

15

<p>Beloit is $7000 cheaper then my instate college and I did not qualify for need based aid. Over 42% of students recieve some form of merit aid. I have friends who got money over there EFC without major outside circumstances.</p>

16

<p>Yea, I might be wrong in assuming this but since I am already effectively guaranteed admission at Geneseo, it is my one true financial/academic safety. However, I would (probably) rather attend one of these three schools to Geneseo and they are the ‘safest’ schools I thought were possible assuming we don’t qualify for very much financial aid and I have a good chance of merit aid at all three.</p>

17

<p>You do realize that Carleton, Pomona, Swarthmore, and Amherst give essentially NO merit aid [that you qualify for] whatsoever? Carleton has a 2k National Merit Scholarship, Swarthmore has a few awards limited to the local geographic area.</p>

<p>Grinnell’s maximum merit aid is 15k. You could probably get an equivalent amount from Lawrence. Lawrence is indeed a great choice for a politically moderate student body; I’d rate Kalamazoo as slightly less liberal than Beloit. There’s a CC poster (Cardinal Fang?) from California whose S is a very happy Kzoo freshman. You do realize that Carleton and Swat, at the very least, are equally/more liberal than Beloit, right? All are open to different viewpoints, but Lawrence is moderate-to-liberal while the others are varying degrees of liberal-to-socialist.</p>

<p>Wrt merit, Grinnell is actually trying to focus more on generous need-based policies. Knox is quite generous with merit aid, and I recommend it. Slightly less moderate than Lawrence, but also less liberal than most of your other choices.</p>

<p>SmallCollegesFTW - Remember that Illinois in-state schools are significantly more expensive than New York in-state schools (or really most in-state schools, period–only a few flagships cost >20k/year including R&B).</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s interesting. By “my instate college”, you mean an in-state public university? Beloit is $7K cheaper after merit aid? If so, I would think yours is a very unusual case (some combination of very large merit grant and unusually high in-state tuition.)</p>

<p>For some students, under certain scenarios, I’m sure that Beloit/Lawrence/Kalamzaoo (or other, peer private colleges) do wind up being cheaper out of pocket than an in-state public university. But, in the OP’s case, the spread would be from less than $16K (SUNY Geneseo) to over $40K (Beloit). That’s a very big gap to cross with merit aid (especially when you consider that typical merit grants at Midwestern LACs run about $10K).</p>

<p>Based on post #16, it sounds like the OP has sized up the situation well.</p>

19

<p>Keilexandra: FYI since I know you are the guru of LAC merit awards: Grinnell will stack awards. My daughter was offered over $15,000.</p>

20

<p>I think OP is doing great adding a safety to Geneseo - I grew up in NY state and yes, the in state is so much more affordable than a state like Illinois - it often made me wish to be back home BUT I think having a back up safety, especially a LAC is great. </p>

<p>Depending on the situation you find yourself in a LAC CAN be much more affordable than an in-state. Very wise to add to the list - Kellexandra is trying to capture some of the nuances that make the three schools mentioned different - hope others will join in. My very moderate D is fitting in wonderfully at Beloit.</p>