<p>“I’m sick and tired of the Ivy elitism.”</p>
<p>Well, this is a thread about elite schools. That might explain the elitism.</p>
<p>@RML: First of all, lets correct your factual errors. Emory’s PA score is 4.0 (not 3. something). You are again assuming that you get to decide what the “correct” methodology is for establishing which school is elite and which is not. Your criteria is based upon PA assessment, and a horrible Forbes list, and your perception of which is more prestigious. Yes, Berkeley is generally more well known than Emory, since the latter is a relative newcomer to the so-called “elite” status. Let me point out that Emory, however, has actually gone UP in the rankings since the 1980s while Berkeley has fallen considerably. This leads me to believe that you are living in the past (the Berkeley glory days). Do trends matter to you. Does it matter at all that Emory, along with Rice, are the only top 20 schools that are listed as “schools on the rise” by USnews. Unfortunately, if there was a “schools on the fall”, Berkeley may land a place on such a list. </p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong. I think Berkeley is awesome and would love to attend for almost anything grad-related. But for the reasons I have stated previously and the reasons other posters (lesdiablesbleus, pizzagirl etc.) have given, Emory undergrad is more elite than Berkeley undergrad for a lot of people. You may disagree, which you have every right to do… but one day you’ll wake up and realize that you are wrong about your assertion that the undergrad prestige difference between your Berkeley and schools like Emory is “not even close”. Once again, it is no coincidence that you disregard certain factors that shine a bad light on Berkeley… while you overvalue other, sometimes horrible, data (Forbes list) to bring up Berkeley, often at the expense of another school. Its 2010, Berkeley is not ranked top 5 or top 10 anymore. In fact, last time I checked it was out of the top 20. Oh wait, but since that is an inconvenient fact for your argument, it does not matter correct?</p>
<p>
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<p>They are about equally selective according to the US News formula (which considers admit rate, scores, and GPA/rank). Berkeley is #26, Emory #29 for selectivity. In other words, 20-some schools are more selective than either one, according to the USNWR formula.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with what alam1, Pizzagirl and some other are saying. Undergraduate education is very different from grad education and the two should not be confused.</p>
<p>“Only elitists care about attending [what they consider] an elite institution, so maybe you should just defer to the elitists in this case.”</p>
<p>[fixed your post]</p>
<p>and so true. This thread reeks with blue blood Ivy elitism.</p>
<p>
And therein lies the rub, because while I may agree with the desired outcomes of liberal education that does not necessarily validate the methodologies used to reach said outcomes. That doesn’t make either of us wrong, it just means that we can probably never universally agree on the measurable criteria that quantify a good education.</p>
<p>Top 25 Universities + Top 10 LACs</p>
<p>Are we done with this yet?</p>
<p>so after all is said and done, after all the debate, after all the hyping, after all the atttacks, we come down to the conclusion that the elite schools, which are far apart from the rest of the pack are:</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
MIT
CalTech</p>
<p>good stuff.</p>
<p>Who came to that conclusion? You did. By “we” I think you mean only you, RML and a few others. The majority of the posters have been more inclusive in their suggestions.</p>
<p>so alam1, which colleges do you think should be labeled as “elite”?</p>
<p>I have already stated that I think that at least top 20 (top 0.5 % of the schools) are elite.</p>
<p>Caltech is not better than Duke or Penn. It’s good at math/sciences but the rest of the top 25 universities crush it with regards to the humanities.</p>
<p>^Duke an Penn are okay in humanities and okay in the sciences (at least among "elite universities). Caltech is below average in humanities and peerless in sciences. I feel that Caltech’s clear superiority in a few areas is more appealing and more likely to connote “elite” status than Duke or Penn’s all-around excellence.</p>
<p>You can ignore Johnadams. He is obviously a “YPSM” ■■■■■…</p>
<p>Cocktail Party Talk</p>
<p>Party number one
Harold: Hi, I’am Harold where did you get your degree from?</p>
<p>Yale Alumnus: Yale</p>
<p>Harold: Wow, I am impressed - that is such a great academic school, you must be brilliant. So many Yale alumni have been among the most successful people in the U.S.</p>
<p>Party number two
Harold: Hi, I am Harold where did you get your degree from?</p>
<p>Shanka: Notre Dame.</p>
<p>Harold: Wow, I am impressed. Incredible football school. What position did you play on the football team?..Is Charlie Weiss that tough during practices as they say he is?</p>
<p>shanks, telling more about how you stated that Notre Dame is superior to HYP:</p>
<p>from shanka:</p>
<p>***“The Ivies are overrated. For undergrad education and experience, atmosphere, ND does not take a back seat to anyone”</p>
<p>" I would put ND up against ANY Ivy in terms of undergraduate education."</p>
<p>“in terms of UNDERGRADUATE education, ND is right up there with any Ivy. The Ivies don’t stress undergrad, its all about graduate research. At ND, its about the undergrad. You are taught by profs at ND, not TAs trying to write their thesis. ND has all the advantages and resources of a major university but teaches in the manner of a small liberal arts college” ***</p>
<p>I wouldn’t really put HYPSM in the “elite” cathegory. I think they’re only good as fallback schools.</p>
<p>lol…</p>
<p>shanka, tell us more about that high “quality” Notre Dame faculty, particularly the science and math faculty.</p>
<p>Yep - very comparable to those “overrated ivy schools” eh?</p>
<p>back seat to anyone?</p>
<p>second to none?</p>
<p># national academy of science members, school:
151 , harvard
130 , berkeley
124 , stanford
113 , mit
73 , princeton
58 , yale
44 , columbia
39 , cornell
28 , u penn
23 , u michigan
10 , brown
2 , dartmouth</p>
<p>**0 , notre dame **</p>
<p>I would put the best Grinnell, Carleton, Macalester and Kenyon students with just about any Ivy league undergrad.</p>