I am a female A15 epee fencer with div1 points. I was ranked top ten in cadets for two years and now am amongst the top 15 in juniors (going into my first year) I didn’t make the world team though…
My top choice is by far princeton but I was also looking into harvard, UPenn, duke, and Vassar.
Am I good enough for the princeton team? Would it be wiser to apply to UPenn early as a safety school?
I have a 3.9 unweighted GPA and EXCELLENT extra curriculars. However, I only got a 28 on my ACT
FIRST contact fencing coaches at these schools - email them with a resume and grades/scores (I would recommend 20+ schools if you seriously want to get recruited). I would do this right away. My guess is that your ACT is probably too low for some of the schools you mentioned.
Check out
http://www.goprincetontigers.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=4273
For info on coaches and recruiting. You should find similar pages for all the other schools.
Do the recruiting questionnaires.
Notre Dame’s women’s team is #1.
If you are recruited, the 28 ACT wont matter. The coach will use a slot on you. You will only need the ACT for NCAA eligibility.
I disagree with the above poster that “the 28 ACT won’t matter”. At some of the schools you mentioned, Princeton and Harvard specifically, it certainly will. I know of many recruited athletes who were told that they needed to achieve a certain score in order to be recruited, and the 28 is a bit low. This of course will vary among colleges.
@jackrabbit14 You are not familiar with the slot system. The athletes you know perhaps were not at the level where a coach would use a slot.
@BatesParents2019 very few athletes attend HYP with such a low score. I doubt the fencing team is allocated many “slots” available to a 28 ACT.
Ivies recruit using a student’s Academic Index. With a 28 ACT and a 3.9 GPA, OP’s AI will be somewhere around 3 or 4/9 (or 190s) unless they get amazing SAT II’s, which seems unlikely. This is low.
We are talking about Ivies - not Notre Dame, Duke, UVA etc with more lenient admissions for athletes.
@BatesParent2019 The Ivies have to meet a minimum Academic Index of something like 177 for each individual athlete. The AI is calculated using gpa, SAT II’s, and the ACT or SAT I. So, the ACT does matter. In addition, the overall average of the athletes must be above a certain threshold so typically schools recruit higher AI kids in sports like golf and fencing in order to offset sports such as football and basketball.
FWIW, I knew a girl who was recruited for a sport (not fencing) at an Ivy (none of the ones mentioned by OP) and she was told she needed at least and ACT of 29. She tried three times but couldn’t do it but the school really wanted her so they finally relented. She ended up transferring after a year. The bottom line for me is that if you are at or below the low end of scores for Ivy, you should really question whether you belong at the school. It is likely, that you will be in the bottom quartile of performance at the school and as Malcom Gladwell has stated, being in the bottom quartile in anything is really psychologically damaging.
Edit: sorry was typing when the post about the AI hit.
Here is an article that, although two years old, explains the AI quite well:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/5/30/harvard-academic-index-explanation/
A couple of important points - one is that the Ivy League itself sets the AI minimum at 176, so that really is the hard minimum threshold. However, HYP schools are much higher than that overall and would only use a minimum AI on a recruit that is truly outstanding. Think top nationally ranked etc.
A second important point to consider - each department must fall within one standard deviation of the population as a whole. In a small department like fencing, a coach must have several athletes above the average to compensate for one who falls below. This is a consideration at Ivy schools.
You did not mention SAT II scores. These are also required for Ivy schools so you’ll need to take those tests to apply.
If you have not done so already, it would be a good idea to calculate your AI so you know what more you need to be considered. http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index_calculator/ And by all means fill in the recruitment forms of any schools you are interested in. Coaches will be able to respond to you initiating contact prior to July 1…they just cannot contact you first until after that date.
I wish you all the best!!
I wouldn’t consider Penn as the “safety” of the four schools you mention.
@sdfskjh First of all, congratulations on managing to achieve BOTH a high GPA and excellent JMF results in your junior year! I know it takes a lot of sacrifice, focus and excellent time management.
That being said, I echo what jackrabbit said: if you really want to go to Harvard, Penn, Duke and Vassar (plus Columbia and Yale), I think you really need to get your ACT up to at least 30, or your SAT to 2100. And also have 2 SAT subject tests around 700.
Moreover, I would add Notre Dame and Stanford to your list, as because of your stellar fencing results they also might be more flexible with the ACT/SAT score than the others. Depending on what college you apply, Cornell also might be able to take you in with a lower SAT/ACT.
As a “safety”, I would point you to Penn State. They can definitely use one more high-level women’s epee fencer. They only had 1 WE qualifier to the NCAA championships last year out of the usual 2, so I’m sure they would definitely love to have you.
Whatever you decide, definitely email the coaches right now, so you can talk to them at the convention lobby during the Nationals in a couple of weeks. There’s still time to arrange meetings if you do it this weekend.
also Haverford?
There is already a wealth of fencing recruiting information at:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/930200-college-fencing-recruiting-p18.html
You may want to read the whole thread, however if you begin at post #267, that is where the most current information begins. @Sherpa is the most knowledgeable parent on CC about college fencing recruiting.
Your fencing accomplishments are impressive. I assume you are a rising senior. If so, you should be contacting coaches of all the schools you are interested in to schedule meetings after your events are completed at Summer Nationals in two weeks.
The Ivy recruitability question can only be answered by calculating your Academic Index or AI (google NYT Academic index for a calculator). You will need an acceptable AI to be recruitable at any Ivy.
Generally speaking, your AI cannot be below 176, and should be above 205 to be competitive for the Ivy League in any sport.
If your AI is not in that range yet, it is important that the Ivy coaches know you are trying to improve it in the short time that you have left. It has been our experience that many of the Ivy recruiting decisions for rising seniors are made soon after SN.
If you are a rising senior and you haven’t yet initiated contact with any college coaches, you may want to have your club coach make direct contact with the programs you are interested in to gauge interest.
FYI, for most people, ED and safety school are generally not used in the same sentence.
You should be aware that Penn (that is U of Penn) is an ED school, so if you apply early and are admitted, you are committed to their program. I am not sure what the early restrictions are at Penn State.
To the moderators, I would suggest moving this thread and the one the OP created at:
to
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/930200-college-fencing-recruiting.html
Getting recruited by Princeton for fencing with a 28 ACT, I think it’s very unlikely. The Princeton fencing coach has told me that a recruit should have 700s or close in all SAT sections as well as in two Subject Tests. A 28 doesn’t equate to a 2100. The lowest ACT for a recruited fencer that I’m aware of at Duke was a 30, and that was for a fencer who made the world team.
Respectfully, I disagree. A relative newcomer, @superdomestique, possesses equivalent but more current knowledge of the fencing recruiting landscape.
ACT 28 is too low for any ivy league schools regardless of fencing ranking … You really have to target for 30 or higher to get past the admissions …
@sherpa, you are kind with your comment. I am happy to be Robin to your Batman.
@sdfskjh, I hope you have not been scared away by all the discussion of your ACT score.If you are a rising senior and if you are going to SN later this month, I have the following advice: To be viable at the Ivys or any of the D1 or D3 academically elite schools, you will need to get your board scores up.
If you feel you can do this and are scheduled to take the tests again, you MUST contact to the coaches before or at SN and tell them of your interest and urge them to wait for you.
As the next sitting for the ACT/SAT will be the fall of 2015, unless a coach knows of your interest and believes in your potential for improving academic viability, MANY recruiting decisions for the Class of 2020 will be made in the days/weeks following SN (before you can take another test).
All this being said, if you are at SN, it would be well worth your time to introduce yourself to coaches from a wide range of programs. SN is wonderful because it is the rare occasion where all of the college coaches are in one place and openly looking for the newest talent. Do not squander this opportunity, by the September NAC it may be too late.
Until you are officially accepted somewhere, a high school fencer can never have too many college coach friends.