<p>Thank you all for your replies. My D wants a BA in music and not vocal performance (not a BFA or BM unless she does the 5 year double major/enrollment at Oberlin) and a BA/liberal arts approach to her science because she wants to attend a liberal arts school as her primary. I did not list Oberlin, Northwestern, Harvard, Yale, or Columbia which are also on her list since she has knowledge about these schools and is exploring the combined BA/MM 5 year programs at HYC with the neighboring conservatories. I knew about Rice and also some about Lawrence. Any help with the rest of the schools on the list would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Oops! Thanks, Carolyn. We also know some about St. Olaf's (D has met with a woman singing in our major city's opera company who is a graduate of both her HS and St. Olaf's).</p>
<p>I think you'll find that most of the schools might work (I'd have questions about JHU, Tufts, and CMU - but I don't know alot about them.) The science departments at all of them are good, and I think you will find more variability in the music departments than in the science departments. Some signal and simple questions to ask at each of them is the number of students in the orchestra and in the main choir - it will tell you nothing about quality, or academic program, but it will reveal the relative size of the peer group. Also ask among the recent department majors, how many were vocalists? This will reveal the tighter potential peer group. Numbers count - they really do - too many and you are very small fish in a big pond, too small and you have to question whether the campus culture really supports the pursuits?</p>
<p>Once you get past that, your d. might decide much more on the basis of campus culture than anything else. Even among the LACs, the feel will be significantly different.</p>
<p>You should also check out University of Rochester. (gee- it's been a while since I last recommended that school). Anyway, it seems to meet your basic needs of music (eastman school) theatre and science. Also U of R has the Take 5 Program (no tuition in 5th year) for those kids who have varied interests and can use the 5 years to complete an additional program. I'm not real sure of the particulars but check it out. And they have the "Rochester Curriculum" which also seems flexible re: required courses in a major. Hope the info was helpful.</p>
<p>I'm glad the original poster clarified their child's degree aspirations.There's a big difference in the requirements for a BMusic in Perfoormance and a BA in Music.My D was originally a BM in Flute performance and honestly wouldnt have had the time in 4 years to complete another major,especially a science with its lab requirements..there simply wouldnt have been enough hours in the day with ensemble requirements,studio time,practice time, required rehearsals,required concert attendance,etc.
When she dropped flute performance and became a BA in Music, the ensemble reqs dropped down with its requisite rehearsal time,the studio commitment time dropped down,there was a language requirement that was added (she took up German to prepare for Grad School admissions in Musicology so started the language from scratch) and she was able to minor in Women's studies and actually hold down a job!!! She still required 1 summer session to get a req out of the way in order to accomodate writing a senior honor's thesis which was also used to facilitate grad school admissions.
Perhaps if a student is willing to invest the extra year (5th year,when scholarships will run out!)or attend every summer they can swing the dual majors of performance and science.Oberlin is very clear that they expect those students to be around for the 5th year.</p>
<p>What about McGill? Top music program in Canada, good science, great college town in Montreal etc.</p>
<p>Guiltguru - All the schools you listed are excellent but except for CMU, JHU (through Peabody), Skidmore, Vassar, Tufts (through NEC) -- the others do not offer vocal performance as a major at all -- i.e. BM degree in performance. Newmassdad is right in saying that a double-degree in voice and science at CMU would be very difficult. The voice program in the Music School (admission by audition) is very rigid in a conservatory-like way and a major in science (application and separate admission into the School or Arts/Sciences) would be extremely difficult to combine and would take at least 5 years or more. He also alludes to tension between schools at CMU and that is definitely the case (I live in Pittsburgh and my D's voice teacher was at CMU). CMU has excellent theater and musical theater programs but they are separate from the classical vocal performance major and to gain admission requires a separate audition/application. Even students in their vocal performance major have a very hard time taking courses in theater and musical theater. Hopkins and Peabody have an alliance in vocal performance and, of course, Hopkins is great in the sciences. However, I would look carefully at the details of the double major there. Peabody is a distance from the main campus and combining vocal performance and a music curriculum with the laboratory sciences could be daunting. Tufts' alliance with NEC is similar except that the two campuses are even farther away from each other and they have different class schedules, vacations, breaks, etc. -- I'm sure it's doable but probably at least 5 years and for a student who is extremely determined and self-disciplined. Vassar and Skidmore both have performance majors and arestrong in theater -- probably not as strong in the sciences. However, each have only a few voice faculty to choose from -- however, proximity to NYC is a plus for both. As another poster mentioned, Rice's Shepherd School of Music is excellent for voice but a double-major with the sciences would be difficult and would probably take at least 5 years. Oberlin College and their Conservatory offer a double-degree -- you have to apply separately to each place (by audition in the conservatory after a screening voice CD is accepted - before you even get a live audition!). It is a five year program -- would be difficult with the sciences -- but doable -- again, for a determined and self-disciplined student. It was at the top of my D's list for a couple of years in high school and she got into the conservatory (never bothered with the college) but, when it came right down to it, she didn't feel comfortable on the campus there. She just finished her freshman year at Lawrence -- where she is a double-degree student in voice -- her BA may well be in the sciences. She loves it -- the double-degree is very well supported by the faculty of both the conservatory/college -- she has an advisor in each and receives a computer printout each term of her progress and outstanding requirements for each degree. She has had loads of performance opportunities, loves her teacher, the place, friends, etc....... I would advise that your D focus on whether she really wants a performance degree (BM) or a BA (in which case, many of the colleges you listed have great music programs -- my son went to Williams so I can vouch for its music program firsthand) and what she wants out of the liberal arts. Oberlin and Lawrence are the only two small LACs with conservatories in association with the colleges -- as I mentioned, I feel Lawrence's support and administration of the double-degree is stronger than Oberlin's. There have been CC threads in the past of this subject -- try searching under 'vocal performance' or 'double-degree.'</p>
<p>"Oberlin and Lawrence are the only two small LACs with conservatories in association with the colleges "</p>
<p>No longer true. Bard has one, and pulls most of its faculty from Curtis and Julliard, easily the equal of Oberlin. However, as of yet, no voice. Are you sure Skidmore and Vassar have performance degrees? Didn't make any difference to my d. (who is primarily a composer), but I don't think so, though they have fine faculty.</p>
<p>We too found the Williams music program extremely strong. My question, however, would be whether this would carry over to vocal performance? (our sense was, from talking with department chair who is an old acquaintance, is that it doesn't particularly, though they have a fine list of adjuncts.)</p>
<p>Any student getting applied music lessons will have ensemble requirements every semester. They are very time consuming, and they are for little or no credit. It is very hard to reconcile the schedule of a lab curriculum and music performance (meaning lessons and ensembles). Good luck.</p>
<p>Mini, I would say Williams has a good music program...but not in comparison to other schools with developed schools of music. My son visited there and talked with professors. Certainly not for oboe. Pure composition/theory might have been o.k. Bard has a great arts focus and growing conservatory double degree program but it is new and has few spots open for students. It would be harder to audition for and be accepted in than Oberlin. But if you could get in, the double degree program may run smoother. Only time will tell.</p>
<p>Mini -- my mistake -- you are right -- Vassar and Skidmore do not award the BM degree though they are stronger than most straight LACS for voice. An oversight to leave out Bard as a LAC/conservatory but it is so new and admits so few students -- no real track record yet -- and nothing for voice. Williams is strong in music generally but not for voice, either.</p>
<p>My d's school is very strong for voice (for a LAC), with two well-known soloists on the full-time faculty independent of the choral director (Williams, in contrast, has none), but it is not on the OP's list.</p>
<p>Glad to hear good things about Lawrence. My d. considered it briefly, but she felt she could get more out of the 5-college set-up (and languages and study abroad were very high priorities.)</p>
<p>Again, almost all the schools on the list will do just fine for the sciences - for the music, you'll just to have to go "kick the tires".</p>
<p>Another note about Williams: about 28% graduate as double majors, often in seemingly disparate fields -- like music and biology, Japanese and astronomy. In most departments, the number of required courses for a major is relatively low and by fulfilling the distribution requirements -- 3 courses each from 3 general categories, math/science, arts/language, social studies -- students find they are well on their way to completing their major(s).</p>
<p>Music is a small department, but well respected and funded. The sciences are very strong.</p>
<p>There are lots of opportunities for non-theater majors to get involved in campus productions. My son has several friends who are majoring in a wide variety of disciplines who were on stage more than once last year.</p>
<p>Again, thank you all for being so forthcoming. My D e-mailed Pomona, Brandeis, and CMU yesterday...heard back immediately from Brandeis and Pomona who supported the double major and demonstrated how it could be done with course selection at their schools. CMU sent back an automated message that said they would answer her e-mail in 7 to 10 days!!! I guess that says something. We learned that WUSTL has NO performance facility for music or campus theater groups and no plan to build one. It came off the list. I've forwarded her the link to this thread and she really appreciated the comments about Swarthmore (came off her list) and Skidmore (went on her list). JHU sounds too difficult since it involves enrolling in a totally separate institution (Peabody) to make it happen. Oberlin still ranks high. She thinks Rochester and Lawrence have too much snow.(!)</p>
<p>Oberlin is a wonderful choice as one could receive a degree in music from the conservatory and a degree from the college in a science. BUT it is impossible to complete both degree programs in four years. Most students need at LEAST an additional semester and some a full additional year to complete both courses of study.</p>
<p>I'd definitely put further investigation into Brandeis. Excellent departments in both vocals and science. Don't have to cross between conservatory and arts and sciences schools as they're both within the liberal arts school.</p>
<p>CMU has a BSA program that combines the sciences and arts, <a href="http://www.cmu.edu/interdisciplinary/%5B/url%5D">http://www.cmu.edu/interdisciplinary/</a></p>
<p>quiltguru - </p>
<p>Is the music part of the double degree there due to possible vocational interest, or just to insure continued vocal activity and development?</p>
<p>Excellent. Thanks ten20j. I've given her the website and she'll call to check it out. And reidm, it's for vocational interest, otherwise she'd just be looking for EC groups.</p>
<p>Quiltguru, I'm not sure your info about Wash U is entirely accurate. WashU has a theater in the Mallinkrodt Student center that is used for all their theater productions. They do not have a dedicated concert hall for voice performance - I believe most concerts are held in Graham Chapel and I do know from talking to John Stewart in the music department that some of the new buildings were built with small auditoriums with music performance in mind. The science is exceptional there and I know my son who continues to take voice lessons has found the music department to be better than he expected. He had an opportunity his first year to participate in the Opera with grad students majoring in vocal performance. Here is a link to their music majors: <a href="http://artsci.wustl.edu/%7Emusic/programs/programs.html%5B/url%5D">http://artsci.wustl.edu/~music/programs/programs.html</a></p>