<p>This new thread could just as easily be for a Musical Theater major as a Music Performance major. It has to do with my D, HS class of 2009 is talented, more than most but probably not conservatory material, and she still wants to major in voice performance.</p>
<p>And being ever the practical dad, Im telling her thats fine, as long as it is in conjunct with some other non-music major, purely from a future employment standpoint. And I think shes OK with that, at least for right now. </p>
<p>There is absolutely nothing bad about the practice & performance aspects of musicin fact her HS years in band and show choir have greatly helped shape her into the self-assured young lady she is today, ready to take on the world. As an aside, Im a part-time musician myself, and I only minored in music during my university days in the last century. So I understand the dynamic, and dont want to deprive her of an opportunity to carry on these important tenets as a part of her college career.</p>
<p>Were looking at some Midwestern schools, big and small, and were examining the double major & major/minor possibilities (and restricitions) at each one, and also the potential of music scholarships (D ranks in the top 2% academically) if music is presented to these schools as only part of her main interest.</p>
<p>There must be some folks in this situation now or who have gone through it in the last couple years that could give me some insight here.</p>
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This new thread could just as easily be for a Musical Theater major as a Music Performance major. It has to do with my D, HS class of 2009 is talented, more than most but probably not conservatory material, and she still wants to major in voice performance.
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<p>jnm, I think it's probably a bit harder to find more than a few schools that will allow a dual degree across seperate disciplines, like performance/science field or philosophy; a double major comprises combining like disciplines, as performance/music ed, performance/music management.</p>
<p>For general reference, some schools allow it, some discourage it, some pay lip service but make it next to impossible. Bard insists on it for performance majors.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head, Oberlin and St. Olaf come to mind for the midwest. I have limited knowledge of vocal programs, but these are two strong programs. Others here more insight/knowledge of strong vocal programs.</p>
<p>jnm, I think it is very difficult to double major as a performance major - at least in 4 years. The schedule can be grueling. If she were to get a BM in performance at a university, she will take many of the gen ed or core courses that other majors take. The BM degree is not considered "light" in any way and is appreciated by many employers as one of the toughest. Any student who completes it must have excellent time management skills and not be afraid of hard work. The performance majors are not the ones you find sunbathing on the quad several hours a day. Very few undergraduate degrees prepare kids to find a great job after college. I don't see that a music major is at a disadvantage. If she decides she wants to go to grad school - law school for instance - after undergrad, the degree won't matter so it may as well be in something she loves. If it's what she really wants, don't shut the door without lots of thought.</p>
<p>Just echoing what cartera45 has said. Many of us here have had this conversation in all different threads: a BM in music sounds scary to most of us who are new to the idea, but the truth is, it's a very solid degree, as I found out over the course of my son's junior and senior high school years. If your child is insisting on double majoring, that's a different story---but, don't think a major in music performance is not worthwhile on its own. Even Conservatories have liberal arts requirements.</p>
<p>Lawrence has a 5-year double degree program. St. Olaf actually discouraged D from trying to do a music ed and vocal performance double major a few years ago. They really wanted students to complete their studies in 4 years. Not sure if that view has changed. </p>
<p>We supported D's desire to study vocal performance but also insisted on (and agreed to pay for) a double major or double degree with an area that provided more employment promise. Turns out she loves music ed as much as she does vocal performance and although very, very busy, she has never waivered or resented the push to accomplish both. In fact, she's less stressed about what will happen when she graduates. She plans to teach in the public schools and perform during breaks and then go back to graduate school later for more vocal music training.</p>
<p>Caution though. Do NOT consider music ed just a fall back for employment. If there is not a true love of teaching and children you do everyone a disservice to insist on music ed as the fall back. We have run into too many bitter music teachers who would rather be performers. It's tough on the kids, even if the teachers are technically good. </p>
<p>From last year's Rice graduating class, 2 went to law school. Others took different paths into employment. A BM is as valid a liberal arts degree as English or history or any of the other non- technical degrees. If you would not make an English major double major, do not necessarily insist on it for music. Now if SHE wants to, another story. If not sure, look at universities with flexibility.</p>
<p>Indiana has a unique four-year degree called a BSoF - Bachelor of Science in Music and an Outside Field. Like a double major, it will allow you all the benefits of a music degree while also studying an academic field of your choice - but unlike a double major it does not take five years. If you're looking at midwest schools I would very strongly recommend you check this out, because Indiana's music school is fantastic as well.</p>
<p>Unless jnm123 is underestimating his daughter by saying that she is "probably not conservatory material" then Indiana, Rice and Oberlin are going to be very long odds, particularly if she is a soprano. Admission to the BM voice program at St. Olaf is also very competitive - I know a very good soprano who just barely squeaked in off the waitlist there a couple of years back. I thought her screening CD was excellent, but she did not even get invited for a live audition at Oberlin. Bard does not even have a BM program in voice, only a grad level program. I am not familiar with the vocal program at Lawrence.</p>
<p>Case Western may be worth a look for a very good academic student. I know they have some students who work with the teachers next door at Cleveland Institute of Music, but do not know whether or not it is any easier to get into that program than it is to get into CIM as a performance major. U Michigan also has an excellent voice department, and may be worth a look because at least some of the competition will be eliminated by the academic standards. It is still likely to be a long shot, though. A top academic student might also consider U Chicago, possibly taking applied music classes at Roosevelt or Northwestern. Northwestern by itself is also possible, but the competition there is likely to be at conservatory level. Some of the large publics may be worth a look, U Minnesota, Ohio State, Kansas State and U Wisconsin for example. Other places to consider include U Dayton, Bowling Green, Illinois Wesleyan, Otterbein and DePauw. Not all of these have formal double degree programs, so you are going to have to clarify what it is that the two of you can agree on and do the research from there.</p>
<p>Most any decent vocal performance program is going to have competitive auditions and many may require pre-screening recordings which are used to determine who gets to move on to the next round of auditions. It is not too soon for a high school junior to be discussing audition repertoire with their voice teacher and thinking about an accompanist and someone to record the pre-screening CD (or video in some cases) that will probably be needed around mid-October of this year.</p>
<p>Agree completely about the choice of the second degree or major. It should be something that the student loves. My post was an example rather than a recommendation. D is so excited about her studies that she has invited us to attend her conducting class on Monday. We're visiting this weekend for the LU performance of Carmina Burana.</p>
<p>Admission to the conservatory at LU is quite competitive and as others have indicated, extremely so for sopranos.</p>
<p>D and S have experienced only wonderful public school music educators (HS music program has won 3 Grammy Awards) and these teachers were D's inspiration for her choice of second major. As mentioned earlier, only a love of teaching should dictate music education as an additional area of study.</p>
<p>I can provide some info on Case Western's Music Dept. </p>
<p>The entrance standards for are considerably lower than for the Cleveland Institute of Music.</p>
<p>That said, I don't intend to impugn Case's performance students. There may well be indivdual students who prefer Case's BA in Music to CIM's BM and choose Case even though they are capable of auditioning their way into CIM. I know at least one pianist who wanted the CIM/Case location and chose the BA at Case even though offered admittance to CIM. This student had professional goals beyond straight piano performance. I know other students who have picked Case becasue they wanted the Music Ed certificate which was easier to get as a Case student. </p>
<p>Both CIM and Case are excellent schools with their own relative strengths.</p>
<p>I'll second singermom7's comment.
We had been looking at my daughter doing a double major vocal performance/music ed, but have spoken to enough college faculty that we are reconsidering that approach.
If your daughter's love is performing, let her pursue performance wholeheartedly -- because she won't have the passion for music ed that college-level programs and faculty are looking for.
Besides which, take a look at how long it will take a double-major student to come out with the two bachelors'. If it's six years or longer, it might be more cost-efficient in the long run to get your performance bachelor's, then return for a master's in music ed (or whatever). You'll spend virtually the same amount of time, but a master's is a more marketable degree.</p>
<p>What you can do is research where your daughter can go to pursue performance for a reasonable tuition. That's our focus now.</p>
<p>Add Illinois Wesleyan to the "potential" list. Good academics and respectable music department. Big 10 State schools with equivalent credentials are UW-Madison and U of I.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for the insight, especially Bass (O-Matic) Dad, whose Music major thread should be in a book somewhere. Great info.</p>
<p>Living in suburban Chicago, in our sights are U of Illinois, Illinois Wesleyan (next up, in 2 weeks), Augustana and Iowa. We’ve already visited UW-Madison, which D fell in love with. From initial investigation and talking to students who attend, all have pros & cons. But D wants to stay within 3 hours or so, and we’re fortunate to have a variety of options in that regard.</p>
<p>And, to answer the question about the validity of a voice performance major, I would have no doubt that it’s as strong as any other liberal arts major, maybe even more solid. At some point in business, we all have to ‘perform’. So, depending on what school gives her the best vibe, (and me the best financial ‘rush’!), then we can look at the various double major or minor possibilities in other areas that interest her.</p>
<p>Finally--maybe because I’m a part-time musician myself, and she’s my D--yes, I might be a tad ‘underestimating’ in her abilities. She’s a fine singer, also plays piano & trumpet, but her gift is her ear & the ability to stay on pitch within a choral situation. I believe that’s why she made the all-state choir. Her tone/timbre needs work, but we’ll see what a voice teacher can do about that when she’s preparing her audition pieces this fall. </p>
<p>And I’ve heard conservatory singers—they are, for the most part, fabulous vocalists in every sense of the word. I have no problem with my D competing for spots, but at places like Oberlin or Juilliard she’d be up against kids who’ve been singing since they were in the womb, and one of my jobs as a parent is to put my kid in a situation where she can succeed.</p>
<p>Ear is good but tone could be a major problem. You should think about getting a professional's opinion on the quality of your D's voice before you waste money at a voice studio. Go to your local University and talk to a voice professor. They may be able to give you a true idea of where your D stands. My D started choral singing at age 10 but did not start private voice until 16. If the natural ability is there, it will be apparent to a good teacher.</p>
<p>Your situatiuon sounds very familiar. We struggled with the BM over a BA and were concerned about the future and employment etc. At the end of the day, I believe you have to ask yourself this. How many people do you know who are working in industries that are not where they want to be and are miserable and/or just getting by? Also, how many people do you know who have a degree that is not pertinent or focused in their profession and are wildly succesful? My advice, give her a chance to let her do what she enjoys doing. You never know and there are a lot of ways to earn a good living in music. Not everyone ends up a performer. At worst she may end up getting her grad degree in something else altogether, but she will never regret the experience and the solid appreciation of music she will get for following her dreams.</p>
<p>Now having said that, we are advising our D to pursue music ed as a dual major or in grad school. As an enhancement to "making a living" yes, but not as a fall back. At some point in the future all performers retire from performance and many teach. In addition, she loves to work with younger kids. </p>
<p>To my astonishment, University of Cincinnati ( CCM-Cincinnati Conservatory of Music) not only allowe double majors in CCM but also allows double majors with some programs in the arts and science school. I found this surprising for a conservatory since most conservatories don't allow double majors...period!</p>
<p>Actually, quite a number of conservatories have some form of double major or double degree program these days - the CCM program you noted, the Juilliard/Columbia/Barnard program, CIM with Case Western, NEC with both Harvard and Tufts, Eastman with URochester, Peabody with Hopkins, Oberlin and Bard within the same institution, and others. You have to consider that these programs are supported at varying levels, however. Some admit a couple of double major students per year and make the program so hard that almost nobody completes it. Others have much broader institutional support that lets many students complete the double program each year. Bard, for one, requires that all of their undergrad performance majors take a second major.</p>
<p>You're info is incorrect. Most conservatories allow double majors. AAMOF, I can't think of one that doesn't but I don't know enough about Colburn and Curtis to comment there. Everyone else does...</p>
<p>Curtis has a program with UPenn, but I do not think it goes as far as a double major. It just lets students cross register for classes in some very specific circumstances.</p>