Which "Top" music schools are less expensive?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My D is in 9th grade, plays woodwinds, and wants to become a professional musician. She already says she wants to study in NYC--but I see how high the tuition rates are at Julliard, Mannes and MSM. She also knows some of the Boston school instructors as she's studied at Tanglewood.</p>

<p>I can't imagine paying most of a $50,000 per year tuition bill for 4 years. Even with a $10,000 or $20,000 scholarship, that's still incredibly high.</p>

<p>I understand that there is no tuition at Curtis, but they take very few people. i just discovered that UNT offers in-state tuition rates as part of a scholarship. Does anyone know how often the in-state rate is offered?</p>

<p>Are there any other top music schools where tuition is at in-state level or less?</p>

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<p>we were lured by the in-state tuition prospect at UNT this year. But alas, my percussionist son was offered no scholarships, music or academic, despite having a 3.2 GPA and a 32 ACT score. So he is going to another out-of-state school that so far has given him $20,000. So don’t rule out an out-of-state school, especially if your D does well academically because the schools will make up the difference</p>

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<p>What are your in-state options?</p>

<p>I remember reading last September that UNT has ‘automatic scholarships’ based on SAT scores, but I can’t find the link. One of the tiers was a reduction to in-state tuition. </p>

<p>Indiana Univ also gives ‘automatic’ scholarships, based on SAT scores; then, there is the possibility of receiving a music scholarship on top of that.</p>

<p>University of Chapel Hill offers a BM, has a small music dept, and has been giving out 4 full tuition (or tuition, room and board?) scholarships. If you pursue this, be sure to audition in person or you aren’t eligible for the scholarship. [Kenan</a> Music Scholars Program — UNC Music Department](<a href=“http://music.unc.edu/undergrad/kenan]Kenan”>Kenan Graduate Student Activities Fund - Department of Music)</p>

<p>If you go thru this year’s thread of Master List of Acceptances, you’ll see that some folks indicate how much scholarship they received; of course this is no guarantee or indicate of what your daughter will receiving, but you’ll see what numbers are thrown around.</p>

<p>Keep an eye on this family - <a href=“http://stampscholars.org/;[/url]”>http://stampscholars.org/;&lt;/a&gt; perhaps they will continue to offer their scholarship at Frost School of Music and your daughter will be applying for the right year for her instrument. Or, perhaps they will start offering similar music scholarships at other music schools.</p>

<p>Check out Schulich School of Music at McGill in Montreal. They don’t seem to give out much merit money to Americans. However, their full price is the same as Oberlin is with $16k merit scholarship.</p>

<p>SUNY Purchase has a conservatory; 2010-2011 Tuition was $6,475 in-state and $14,375 out-of-state</p>

<p>I imagine there are other schools with scholarships similar to that offered by UNC-Chapel Hill. Part of the trade-off, of course, is that the department is small and the playing level of other students may not be on par with your daughter.</p>

<p>PS - I didn’t address the part of your question asking about “top” music schools. As I learned here at the forum, the priority is the relationship between student and teacher, not the name of the school</p>

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<p>Thanks, hawkrn and mtpaper. Our in-state options are not too good. No school in our state is known for classical music performance, and my D is not interested in going anywhere in-state.</p>

<p>My D will not do well on the SAT–she works slowly and will get low scores in math. She does have a 4.0 GPA and works very hard at her academics.</p>

<p>I put “Top” in quotations because I know the teacher is the most important. However, there are no in-state university teachers my daughter wants to study with.</p>

<p>Does ANYONE get full merit tuition, or something close to it, at the top 3 schools in Manhattan?</p>

<p>I did look at McGill and will keep it on my list of “less expensive” schools, and I’ll look at UNC. Hadn’t thought about UNC because it has such high academic standards.</p>

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<p>“My D will not do well on the SAT–she works slowly and will get low scores in math. She does have a 4.0 GPA and works very hard at her academics.”</p>

<p>you have no idea what the next three years will bring and what your daughter can accomplish, you’ll be surprised. She may not even want to pursue music, it’s great you’re looking at options but also be aware that in three/four years prices will undoubtedly get even more inflated and that there are dozens of options out there and the best thing for you to do is to go and see as many as possible, and not to base a decision so prematurely based on numbers alone. you have lots of time, you seem to have a sense of urgency about you.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how much merit aid the NYC schools are willing to give. I do know some students who got 3/4 tuition merit aid at Eastman. You should also look at Colburn in Los Angeles. It is small and not very old, but pays all costs to admitted students including room, board and books. However, it is like Curtis in that it doesn’t accept that many students.</p>

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<p>I think I can clear up some things. I’m a prospective freshman for the UNT class of 2015 and I have fully paid tuition plus about $1500 as an out of state student. I received the max automatic scholarship of $7000 (at least 2140 on SAT/32 on ACT and top 10% of class) along with a $2000 music scholarship. Obviously it’s a very cheap option to me with all that; all I have left is room and board. Although it may seem right now that your daughter won’t do well enough on standardized testing, I wouldn’t worry. Since she has a 4.0, I assume she’s in the top 10%, and that means she’ll only need a 27 on the ACT or whatever the SAT equivalent is to get $5000 along with a waive of out of state tuition. There’s also the option of a music scholarship. For UNT, $1000 is the magic number for anything because it gets rid of the out of state tuition. As long as she would find a way to waive the out of state fees, UNT is a very cheap option for a great music school.</p>

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<p>Shennie, thanks, I didn’t know that about Eastman. My D will be attending programs there this summer there and will have a chance to work with one of the Eastman professors on her instrument. And I’ll look at Colburn.</p>

<p>18karat–I know I haven’t provided many facts, but my D is one of those students with special learning disabilities who does extremely well in some subjects and can hardly do others at all. SAT scores are not good predictors for everyone.</p>

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<p>Rice is another option: its music school rivals that of the best NYC schools (and some claim that it is a tougher admit because it takes so few undergrad students). As well, Rice is very wealthy (on a per-student basis its endowment rivals that of the Ivies) so it guarantees meeting full financial need of all admitted US citizens. Its tuition is definitely lower than most of the private NYC conservatories, but it is the financial package which ultimately makes it the best deal for many students. While Rice is normally a tough admit academically, I get the impression that standards are bent for students that are strong enough to gain the acceptance to music.</p>

<p>As a high school teacher who has watched students like your daughter grow as they progress through high school, I agree with the advice that others have given: hard-working students often make amazing progress and can achieve SAT scores like 2140 by the beginning of their senior year. In fact, it would be a relatively rare 4.0 student that would not make 2100, unless, of course, the high school is giving away its 4.0’s.</p>

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<p>Also, look at Oberlin. You can be admitted to the conservatory only if your test scores are weak and they promise to meet full need. (As the parent of 3.9 gpa high school student musician without great test scores, I understand your concern when looking at schools with merit aid packages that are tied to test scores.)</p>

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<p>Sending your kids to a college is going to be financially painful (unless you are one of the lucky families who gets the golden free-ride)-- but those free rides are rare. When a school says they “meet full financial need”, they are meeting your need as defined by them, or by the FAFSA, so bear that in mind. Our package from one school was a $10,000 grant, $2500 in work study and $40,000 in various loans. “Full need met.” </p>

<p>Also, I am pretty sure that I read on this board that Rice took one flutist this year. Of course, your daughter might be the lucky one who replaces her in four years, but it’s still scary odds.</p>

<p>I know that it is rough when you first find out what colleges cost, and no one can tell you what you can/can’t afford in terms of mortgaging your future (aka loans) or raiding your retirement account, but it’s pretty rough out there.</p>

<p>We have 4 kids. When they were younger, we had a blind hope that there would be lots of merit aid waiting for them (apparently this is a common misconception shared by many parents.) There are some golden free rides for some students, and maybe your daughter will be one of the lucky ones, but meanwhile it’s best to cast your net widely and try to look past the obvious when thinking about the cost of a school. The sticker price of a school is often not the price you end up paying. Most schools do give merit scholarships, but there does not seem to be an easy way to predict in advance how anything will turn out (at least, everyone on CC seems fairly stumped as to why their students get certain awards from some schools, nothing from others-- it just isn’t predictable. Packages can vary wildly for a single student.) Therefore, cast the wide net for as many options as possible.</p>

<p>Secondly, realize that the cost of attendance can be mitigated in some less than obvious ways. How far away you live from the school has an impact on cost. The cost of living in the city, and the cost of off-campus housing also has an impact. So does the availability of well-paid gig work. There are often secondary scholarships or fellowships for upper class men.</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone for your replies, and yes, momofbassist, there are indeed students out there who excel in academics but cannot test well–and they are not that rare. This is my third child, and all did very well in courses with high GPAs but could not get SATs above 1800. This D will be lucky if she can manage to get over a 500 on the math section, and only if she works really hard at it.</p>

<p>My concern is with schools that promise to meet “full need” which in our case came nowhere close to meeting our need with our second daughter; she got something like glassharmonica described–thousands of dollars in loans (which we did not take).</p>

<p>From the responses, it sounds as if my D won’t be able to get a large scholarship at a university, due to her poor standardized scores. She may be able to get one solely on music merit however, if it is not tied to the scores.</p>

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<p>A few thoughts: “meeting full need” does not mean that a school will do that via grants or scholarships, but rather with a combination of those, loans, work/study, etc. Of course, it’s possible for your D to do very well in school (depending upon the types of classes taken- honors, AP,etc) and not test well. If she “works slowly,gets low scores in math,etc” it might be worth it to have her tested and coded ( my eldest was “ADD gifted”, which caused all sorts of problems!!), as she will then be allowed extra time and accommodations on all standardized testing, including the SATs/ACTs.
As others have said, don’t rule out schools outside of NYC. My D attends CIM, which, unfortunately, now has the distinction of being the most expensive conservatory in the country, but the administration has made it possible for her to attend via excellent scholarships and financial aid packages.</p>

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<p>Hartt gives generous scholarships and has modest requirements for test scores.</p>

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<p>Bard has an up-and-coming conservatory-- and they do not require test scores.</p>

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<p>I would say wait until your D takes the SAT/ACT before you count out schools that consider them. I was never a good test taker, but all it took was one good day, and I got really incredible scores. I would say have her start taking SAT prep courses now to get her ready. They increased my score from a projected score on the PSAT by 700 points in just a year.</p>

<p>I’m not applying for schools until the fall, so I can’t help you much there, but I too knew classical music was what I wanted to do in 9th grade. Good luck!</p>

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<p>One note on test scores, the value of test scores depends on the program, and in terms of merit scholarships it depends again on the school. Some programs require you get admitted to the college and the music school but test scores might have zero to do with merit scholarship for the music students, in others it will count. From what I know of the stand alone music schools/conservatories, few if any of them even care about test scores or in many cases don’t require them (I was at an admissions seminar for a high level conservatory not long ago, and a parent went apoplectic when they told her that her kids AP scores didn’t get them anything there or that the SAT didn’t mean anything…). Speaking from personal experience, the big thing is knowing how to take the tests and that is where I believe test prep can help, to learn how to take the test:)</p>

<p>As others have said, you never know what will happen with aid, and I have heard this from a cross section of people to believe that is the truth, it is much like admissions. My thought would be to find programs across a wide spectrum when the time comes, apply, and then figure out where to go based on teacher and cost, trying to speculate at this point is probably fruitless, it is kind of like the inquiries from people asking “Is it easier to get in X or Y” as a general rule, let’s say CIM or NEC hypothetically, when the answer is every year is different and almost anything can happen…and it could turn out that the flagship state music program gives a worse package then the private conservatory, you never know.</p>

<p>One other thing,that has come up in other threads, is that financial aid is not necessarily set in stone, that you can appeal them when the time comes. One thing that seems to come up a lot is that if the student connected with a teacher and the teacher really wants them, it can help in this process. I don’t know what you D is doing at the moment, but this is where summer music programs and/or doing sample lessons with perspective teachers once she is older might be valuable, having a teacher who knows your D and wants them in a program is important for that reason.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone, for both the public and private messages. I have a few more conservatories to look into. I’ve learned from the private messages that there are quite a number of student musicians out there who have difficulty with standardized tests. It appears that a number of conservatories will hand out some very large non-loan type aid, and that often it music merit aid.</p>

<p>My daughter will have to decide if she wants to go through what she feels is an agonizing process of getting learning-disability approved again in order to qualify for more time on the SATs, or whether she feels she is good enough, musically, to take the risk and apply only to conservatories and schools that do not care about the standarized tests.</p>

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<p>[Optional</a> List | FairTest](<a href=“http://fairtest.org/university/optional]Optional”>ACT/SAT Optional List - Fairtest)</p>

<p>Here is a link to a website that lists test optional schools. There are several conservatories on the list, along with some colleges and universities that are often discussed on this forum.</p>

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<p>

I’m sorry if the LD compensatory designation in your state is a pain in the butt, but my advice is to have her go through the process for a slightly different reason: she will always take tests, wherever she is. In particular, she will have music theory exams, everywhere.</p>

<p>It is very difficult at college to get 150%-time on exams IF YOU DID NOT HAVE 150% time in high school. However, if your D has a processing disorder, a test will never show her TRUE capability unless she has extended time. Also, you are at the beginning of her academic career. I will tell you that maintaining a 4.0 GPA at a rigorous HS to be competitive for college admissions is very difficult without extended time if you are a student who needs it.</p>

<p>While most of the University schools of music <em>say</em> admission is mostly <em>talent/audition</em> related, MANY also have academic cutoff in order to audition. Eg. Umich will not usually grant an audition to a student with lower than 3.0. Northwestern will generally not take a gifted student unless their statistics are on par with the university overall. Indianna (Jacobs) has automatic academic scholarships that combine GPA with SAT/ACT and these can be substantial ($8,000 and up). </p>

<p>At the end of the day, admissions committees for SOMs have to evaluate students against each other in the auditioning pool. A student of equal caliber with strong STATS will often fare better in terms of admissions to top programs. EG. at my son’s school, which is a rigorous admit, I believe I recall the dept. head saying that the actual STATS of the entering SOM students were higher than the average for the university – which is often the case.</p>

<p>The other reason I would strongly encourage the accommodations is because your daughter is legally entitled to them and needs to know that when accommodated, she can perform on par with her true peers in a testing condition. Please do not overlook the value of extended time. It can make or break an academic career.</p>

<p>For example, my own son is one of those “LD/gifted” kids, but we originally did not know about the cognitive tempo speed issue relating to ADD-PI - we only knew about his CAPD. So we never asked for extended time throughout HS. Because he also had a very very high IQ, he performed “well” (enough) on his ACTs but DIDN’T FINISH any of the tests. He was accepted to a rigorous program nonetheless (variety of factors, recommendations, etc.) but when he actually started writing exams at college it became clear that there was a speed issue. (Eg. he’d have straight As on projects/in class assignments and then bomb an exam.) He was recommended for a full Adult neuropsych eval during which his processing speed issue was identified. </p>

<p>He now has extended time on his exams, sanctioned by this rigorous u., and guess what – gets As on his finals. I truly believe accommodating his LD is making all the difference in both his ability to competitively complete his undergrad AND how he feels about himself and his work. Our only wish is that we had have done the more thorough testing in highschool instead of having him always know that he never did as well as he COULD because he never FINISHED exams.</p>