<p>I think it is a combination of all these things. A good number of kids really are starting out with no parental contributions and are funding everything with loans.<br>
This is expensive even at in state local schools. I think also unless you really study the financial aid process and understand the loan options it is easy to get carried away by the “need to go to a top school.” D’s friend was accepted at a top school with no merit money and not one penny of financial aid. D said their college fund would cover about 1 year. Mom said to me about 2 weeks after sending in the acceptance letters that she had just startied looking at loans and the terms were really pretty terrible. A little late to be discovering that now after you just signed up for a $60,000 bill! If it wasn’t for my husband, a mortgage banker who often finds himself denying loans to people with unbelievably high college loan debt, we could have been sucked into the frenzy as well. Thankfully we have finished the first year with no loans and plan to continue that way as long as we can.</p>
<p>Wow! This thread is enlightening. If I chose to aim for a highly-ranked UC I might become one of those, because I calculated I would need 3 years upon the year I just completed at CC to transfer to an impacted major. That would be 4 years at CC doing science and math prerequisites, so that would use up my Cal Grant and Chapter 35 Veterans Dependent benefits (both limited to 4 years). I’d lose $20,000 in Cal Grant money.</p>
<p>If I went to my local CSU (which I could possibly do at the end of this year if I wanted to+could handle 2 difficult sciences and a 3 unit class/ keep 4.0), I could use the $10,000 per year Cal Grant and 2 years left of Chapter 35 benefits ($956 a month during school year, only during the months of classes of the 2nd half of month, not first half, 12 unit minimum). The program’s 5 semesters, so assuming I’m accepted I would have 1 semester w/o full financial aid (but still get Pell Grant).</p>
<p>Looking at this thread, it seems most people recommend going to the local state school and having less debt, then maybe using more time to go to a prestigious school and taking out loans? Mostly for me, I want to go to the UC for their opportunities for clinical hours in their highly-ranked hospitals and the opportunity to network. I could learn a great amount from them + use that knowledge to help people.</p>
<p>Which is it? Nearly $0 in debt from a local state school or $30-50k debt for highly-ranked university education w/ networking opportunities?</p>
<p>Parent here have long accepted not going into debt. What is now happening is that even parents who can pay, and who value higher education, are saying, will my kid be better off if I spend 200K on college, or if I spend 100K and can give 100K for a down payment for a house for a kid. The truly wealthy will spend whatever they want, but the merely upper class are saying, I need to think about this.</p>
<p>Wow! This thread is enlightening. If I chose to aim for a highly-ranked UC I might become one of those, because I calculated I would need 3 years upon the year I just completed at CC to transfer to an impacted major. That would be 4 years at CC doing science and math prerequisites, so that would use up my Cal Grant and Chapter 35 Veterans Dependent benefits (both limited to 4 years). I’d lose $20,000 in Cal Grant money.</p>
<p>Why are you spending so many years at a CC???</p>
<p>If I went to my local CSU (which I could possibly do at the end of this year if I wanted to+could handle 2 difficult sciences and a 3 unit class/ keep 4.0), I could use the $10,000 per year Cal Grant and 2 years left of Chapter 35 benefits ($956 a month during school year, only during the months of classes of the 2nd half of month, not first half, 12 unit minimum). The program’s 5 semesters, so assuming I’m accepted I would have 1 semester w/o full financial aid (but still get Pell Grant).</p>
<p>Do that ^^^.</p>
<p>What is your major and intended career? I doubt it’s one that requires that you go to a UC and would be wise to take on such debt.</p>
<p>Seaside, it sounds like you’ve been trying to think this through. That’s better than when folks make assumptions about loans and when the ultimate factor is what the kid wants, the 18 y.o. Or, how the kid isn’t willing to consider cc for part of the education.</p>
<p>For many, a less expensive option can do the trick. If you need specialized training or programs, it can change things. I don’t understand all the ins and outs of Cal funding, but can tell you that 40k debt would likely cost you just under $500/mo to repay (that’s from my Direct info.) Would your career possibilities make that doable? Would having the UC hospital experience make a significant difference in your ability to actally find a better-paying job? </p>
<p>For many, the debt doesn’t automaticaly equate to better job opps. That’s the myth. In some fields, yes; at some particularly rigorous colleges, maybe. Networking can be a matter of luck (meeting the right people, etc,) or it can be that the program at the UC actively helps place grads in jobs. Things to think about. Good luck.</p>
<p>I can see how it is very easy to go in to 6 figure debt as I see it every year. A student can go to an in-state school, the family makes too much money for federal/state grants and not enough money to pay out of pocket at a school that cost between 20-25k a year, so they borrow the money.</p>
<p>I agree with the others that wrote that kids want the “whole college experience” complete with dorms, study abroad, etc. </p>
<p>Right here we have a number of threads where students write they did not get enough money to making the school affordable without loans. We recommend more affordable options and perhaps doing CC for 2 years and transferring to a 4 year school. Students/Parent respond that “the student/the kid has worked too hard to attend CC” and deserve the 4 year/dream school.</p>
<p>“The truly wealthy will spend whatever they want, but the merely upper class are saying, I need to think about this.”</p>
<p>Exactly. But the problem is, in many cases, the “merely upper class” or even “merely comfortable enough” parents aren’t having the discussion UP FRONT when the kid is applying to schools. One of my closest friends is now in this situation with her child. The family just assumed he would get in wherever he wanted and be courted with merit aid. he wasn’t. He got shut out of his top choices, so they are going to pay almost full tuition at a ridiculously expensive school on the B list simply because it’s the “most prestigious” of the remaining options. He had merit offers at a number of reputable schools and also got into our state flagship. But because the parents WERE willing to pay full price for an Ivy or other “elite” school, they don’t now feel they can say no to what is by all accounts a very expensive consolation prize that the child is “resigned” to attending.</p>
<p>^^ But, a small twist. When the family makes too much money to qualify for much aid, they are already, theoretically, in a better position to help pay off debt. The families who already scrimp are not in that position. Not arguing, just feeling for the latter.</p>
<p>This summer, I’m working with 3 22-23 yo’s who went to cc. They are fabulous, handling high level, early-career resps. It makes me see that, for some kids, it’s not the name of the instution or the public perception of prestige. It’s what the kid brings to the table. </p>
<p>So just sending Johnny off to some school for the full experience or because he “deserves it,” seems off. Self-indulgent and not automatically a wise investment.</p>
<p>Sobering detail: young, brilliant, newly minted Ivy med grad turned down a full-ride at a very good regional state U. Just learned she is 300k in debt.</p>
<p>I am wondering how long these kids will be happy living at home with mom and dad. </p>
<hr>
<p>Or how long mom and dad will be happy with the kids living at home! ;)</p>
<p>Years ago, when I was a couple years out of school, a friend & I were discussing money. He told me that earning money is like putting up shelves in your house. The more shelves you have, the more you feel compelled to get things to fill them … and I have found this to be true. I have quite a few friends who earn a lot more than H & I. Some still feel that they don’t have enough, and they complain about not getting financial aid. On the other hand, I have a number of friends who earn more, and they saved for college. Their kids were able to go to school debt free, due to the choices their parents made. </p>
<p>It’s the TRULY middle class who have it hardest. These are folks whose EFC is just a bit over the Pell threshold. The vast majority of these kids aren’t going to get significant merit anywhere, and their parents frankly have never earned enough to be able to support a family and sock away a bunch of money in a college fund. It’s even worse when these kids are from areas without a CC in commuting distance. I am not an online education fan, but I guess their only option in terms of affordability is online. But when it comes time for the final 2 years, they have to move away. It’s really rough for them, because affordability is a huge issue.</p>
<p>Mostly for me, I want to go to the UC for their opportunities for clinical hours in their highly-ranked hospitals and the opportunity to network. I could learn a great amount from them + use that knowledge to help people.</p>
<p>What is your major/career goal?</p>
<p>Sobering detail: young, brilliant, newly minted Ivy med grad turned down a full-ride at a very good regional state U. Just learned she is 300k in debt.</p>
<p>Just shows that a student can be “book smart”, but not have the walking around smarts to see how insane that is. The payments must be over $3k per month! What idiot co-signed those loans?</p>
<p>Discussions on CC regarding debt usually turns into arguments about students and parents insisting on private “sleep away colleges” instead of state schools. Yet those I know who run into debt don’t have the money for this “affordable” option either. </p>
<p>Parents able to pay in-state tuition/room and board usually have kids in the cat bird seat. Kid can hit the lottery with acceptance at the generous need-based schools, be awarded merit scholarships for private/OOS colleges or decide the flagship is the school for them. No matter: If costs are around what parent planned on paying all along, away the kid goes, debt free.</p>
<p>But for parents not in this position, this was never an option. State or private, it was going to be loans, loans and more loans. Even full tuition scholarships won’t cut mustard if there’s still room and board to pay. Where I live, neither the flagship or best regional college is in town. Yes, there’s community college, but you still need a car to get to one (public transportation not being the best) and some kids can’t afford that expense either.</p>
<p>QLM</p>
<p>I agree with you fully, Quietlurkingmom.</p>
<p>I have participated on both sides of the argument regarding going away to school, going to a highly selected expensive school vs staying home, working part time and going to a local state school or cc.</p>
<p>The answer is not a one size fits all blanket, but there is a point when the risks of borrowing so much money are higher than anyone should take regardless of the possibility of reward.</p>
<p>The truth is that sometimes it does all work out. We hear and read about the stories when they work out. Mom and Dad borrow for kid to go to college, Kid does well, enjoys every bit of the experience. Gets a great job right out of school as an engineer and can pay his loans back and some, Dad got a nice raise and bonus and the grandparents died and left an inheritance. So it all worked out. But for every story like that, there are kids who don’t finish, don’t stay in that major with the prospects of a good job, parent’s jobs and pay levels go down, debt goes up and no one can pay back the loans after graduation which take a life on of their own with those interest rates. That’s the scenario that most often happens.</p>
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<p>Did she turn down a full ride at undergrad, because I doubt if there are many full ride med school scholly’s without the student’s commitment to work for a couple of years in a certain practice area after graduation. Ok, had she taken the full ride in undergrad, perhaps she would have less debt after med school. but there is no way she has 300k from undergrad, unless she has been in school a really long time or has constantly deferred loans.</p>
<p>I could see 200/300k debt for med school, especially considering the bulk of the financial aid is in the form of loans. It is still going to be hard to pay off because new doctors are not making big bucks.</p>
<p>Sybbie, sad to say, she turned down the full ride for med school. Her EFC for m/s was high, because they took parental income into consideration- one parent had recently (one could say, finally,) gotten a competitive paying job.</p>
<p>Her specialty will not allow her to dispatch the debt quickly. And, she is locked into this area, for family reasons. Breathtaking, eh? I wonder if some practices help new docs pay off school loans-? Don’t some tippy top law firms?</p>
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<p>Heartily agree. We are in a big metro area (Atlanta) but the state flagships (UGA or Georgia Tech) aren’t commutable. There are some commuter schools and community colleges, but a suburban resident needs a car to get to any of them. Public transportation in my middle class suburb is not merely poor, it’s non-existent. Nearest transit stop of any kind is 6.5 miles from our house, and this is an “inner” county, not the exurbs at all.</p>
<p>Even after the state full-tuition (Zell Miller) or 90% tuition (HOPE) scholarship, the out-of-pocket cost of a freshman year at UGA or Ga. Tech is in the $12K to $15K range. This is a lot to borrow, and I strongly suspect some of D’s peers and their families are borrowing much or all of it, probably unwisely. Others are commuting to community colleges and local universities.</p>
<p>Wow, full rides to med school are pretty rare. I thought if you committed to work in underserved communities that you can get some of your debt relieved. try this</p>
<p><a href=“http://services.aamc.org/fed_loan_pub/index.cfm?fuseaction=public.welcome&CFID=1660045&CFTOKEN=34526630[/url]”>http://services.aamc.org/fed_loan_pub/index.cfm?fuseaction=public.welcome&CFID=1660045&CFTOKEN=34526630</a></p>
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<p>With new grads at tippy top firms making $160,000 out of law school (provided that they pass the bar), they will be able to pay off their own loans :). </p>
<p>Many top schools will have LRAPs (loan repayment assistant programs), where depending on your salary, some of your debt will be paid by your school. </p>
<p>[List</a> of Law School LRAPs | Equal Justice Works](<a href=“http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/resources/student-debt-relief/law-school-lraps/list-law-school-lraps]List”>http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/resources/student-debt-relief/law-school-lraps/list-law-school-lraps)</p>
<p>Some schools will give you free tuition if you commit to work in public service (5-7 years). </p>
<p>There are also</p>
<p>Public Service Loan Forgiveness
Where if you work in public service (non-profit/govt, etc) for 10 years while making your payments, you can have your loans forgiven.</p>
<p>Income-Based Repayment
where you can substantially reduce monthly student loan payments if you have high debt relative to your income.</p>
<p>The law school foregiveness isnt working.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>“Public service” jobs are not easy to come by. </p></li>
<li><p>Income based doesnt work in high COLA areas – its only adjusted for Alaska (maybe Hawaii). Works OK if you are in Ga or Miss, not Wash, NY or Boston.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think borrowing is likely worth it for people at Gtech, especially if in engineering.</p>
<p>I think it’s a highly case by case basis who much if any to ‘borrow’ about the federal direct loans. I wonder sometimes if these kids with >$50,000 debt are actually kids who were expected to pay off loans parents co-signed or took out. But the reality is a newly minted engineering grad is going to make $50000 to $60000 which is a significant salary but still will only support a certain level of debt and certainly not debt that approaches $100,000 and will be dependent on the cost of living in the area the newly minted grad is employed. Starting salaries do not differ all that much across the country.</p>
<p>Isn’t the income based repayment schedule just a lengthening of the term- with interest growing, based on that extension? I don’t know what this doc’s plans are. But, she’s a good warning point. She’s the proverbial “wanted to be a doc” since, oh, ten years old. Everyone’s shining light (and, she does deserve that.) But, as with many families, they let that light blind them. </p>
<p>I really think judging your kid’s earning potential at 17, when he applies, or a few months later, when he accepts an admit, is terribly risky. Even for a kid who wants engineering. Starting salaries CAN differ depending on where you get hired, willingness to move, etc. And, my understanding is that salaries for engineers (except entrepreneurs or those who land Silicon Valley level,) can top out.</p>