<p>I often think it’s not just about the quantity of the debt, but also the actual quality of the education that particular kid is indebted for. Just having a degree is no guarantee of success or getting ahead of past generations. Yes, it “certifies” you for some opportunities, but you have to have the rest of the goods. So, some kids who are not high achievers in hs or somehow not fully prepared for high challenges in college, are not going to necessarily graduate academically polished or revved up and ready to get high income positions and climb the ladder. Yet, they would end up with the same, say, $25k Stafford debt.</p>
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<p>There is a cap on how much money you can make for IBR. If your law school also has an LRAP program (where they are paying part of the loan) the cap is $80k. So even in North Dakota working a 40k/job paying $290/month to service their 200k law school debt, one is going to have to find a job that will pay to service their debt (and there are probably fewer non-profit gov’t jobs there than they are in other parts of the country).</p>
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<p>It is not the counselor’s job to talk to your child about money or your specific situation. Those that do will tell you the FA basics, when to file the FAFSA, how to determine if your school meets 100% demonstrated need, if you need to file the profile or institutional forms, etc.</p>
<p>The first conversation that I have with my students is that you have to sit down and have the money talk with your parents to figure out how much they are willing to pay or borrow for your education. I would never tell a parent what they can or cannot afford to pay for their child to attend school.</p>
<p>I have kids that I know are eligible for free lunch, living on public assistance and when we talk about college, they tell me that “mom mom said don’t worry about money” and then my question is who is suppose to pay for you to go to college?</p>
<p>This same student who works a non profit/govt job for 60K a year</p>
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<p>Once again, I walk away dejected. 52 and earning far less than this hypothetical underpaid student.</p>
<p>Sigh …</p>
<p>At least I didn’t have any loans when I graduated (back in the dark ages).</p>
<p>That brings up a good point kelsmom. I think many kids expect a good salary simply because they graduated college. Entry level jobs mean entry-level pay, even if one did pay $200k for the degree.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about many entry level salaries, but I do know that in Southern California, entry level teachers (with 4 year degree and 1 year certification) make about 35K, and entry level govt attorneys (with 7 years of college + bar passage) like public defenders make about 62K. Competition for these jobs, when they are available, is FIERCE. Most students cannot expect to make 60K coming right out of college. Some majors, yes. Most majors, no. I am in the same spot you are Kelsmom- 52 years old, having worked most my adult life, and I too am envious of these “60K” jobs that new grads expect that they will get!</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Yes, they all think that they’re going to be making a LOT more than they actually do. Even many of the eng’g grads think they’re starting at $75k+. The few that do will be living in areas with very high COLs, which will negate that bonus pay.</p>
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<p>this was in reference to a newly minted lawyer, not a recent undergrad</p>
<p>It is a terrible quandry for many parents. They have bright, hard working kids who have goals in careers that would make things so much easier for them. But getting to such jobs as nursing, some engineering from the community college level is very difficult, sometimes nigh impossible in areas where the community colleges and local options are flat out not good. And dangling right in front of them is a program that will bring them right to the goal. It’s an investment, and all parents who want the best education, advantages and opportunities are borrowing to give their children this shot. </p>
<p>The sad reality is that the drop out or change in goals or just not making cut is high. So you spend the money, the kid doesn’t have the job, the kid owes over $30K in governement loans and mom, dad, grandpa and whoever are all on the hook with the kid for private loans for twice that amount. And all the kid can find is minimum wage work for not even 40 hours a week!</p>
<p>Kelsmom, those higher paying jobs are scarce. The reality here in NYC is that the cost of living is a lot higher but the same jobs rarely pay commeasurately more. GAP, Coldstone and McDonalds do not pay a NYC premium. Those who work those jobs almost always are supported by others, live with others and the job is pocket money. I know several teachers, administrators that left as fast as they could once they got jobs upstate because there was no way that they would ever likely be able to afford their own homes her in the metro hub. My boys had their own apts, own lives up there; here they have to share . Unless family helps out and you get a gift of a house of your own, unless you are one of the few who are in the high paying jobs, you are out of luck. My mother and MIL live with us because there is no way they could get a decent apartment on their pension/social security checks.</p>
<p>Some of the worst stories I’ve heard come from NYU and the amount of loans students take out to attend. I’ll be starting my masters there in the fall, but I’m luckily funded by the Gates Scholarship. I just don’t understand how people take out 100K+ in loans :</p>
<p>And young people, don’t marry someone with massive student loan debt! Unless you want to spend the first 20 years of your life paying off his or her loans. No student loan debt is a very attractive feature in a prospective spouse.</p>
<p>*They have bright, hard working kids who have goals in careers *</p>
<p>If only. I think some kids are clearly destined for success- they have drive and the confidence to stretch themselves. You can see this in the apps where the kids have pushed themselves and gotten relevant outside experience. The great bulk of them are still young and confused- or, at best, open to ideas and filled with hope. I think they and their families overstimate what happens after the degree. </p>
<p>We all want what we think is best for our kids and we’re willing to commit to helping them get through college. But, we aren’t always the best judges. We can’t read their futures, when the only data so far is high school.</p>
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<p>Good advice, although it’s not always possible to filter on criteria like this before falling in love. This is why it behooves adults to care about the fate of not just our own children, but other peoples’ children as well. Some people seem to think it’s OK to have a terrible public education system, so long as their children are getting a good private school education. It’s OK to have a student debt crisis, so long as their children avoid this pitfall. And so on. But … who are the children going to work alongside, vote alongside, marry…? If we protect our child from student loan debt only to have them fall in love with someone debt-encumbered, we haven’t entirely achieved our objective.</p>
<p>this was in reference to a newly minted lawyer, not a recent undergrad </p>
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<p>Whew! ;)</p>
<p>Truthfully, though, jobs do not pay what they once did. My H is an engineer at an auto company, and the new-hire engineers are getting less pay than they did a few years ago. In addition — and this is a really big deal, IMO — the company no longer gives raises. Salaried employees get a profit sharing bonus that may or may not materialize, and varies greatly from year to year. This leads to stagnant pay. I really see this issue causing problems down the road. Our economy has more adjusting to do over time than many realize.</p>
<p>Well, Kelsmom, you and I need to find that college in another thread here that pays $40K for part time work.</p>
<p>^^^me too!!!</p>
<p>Can we get summers off, too?!</p>
<p>The three of us need to descend on that place. I can’t find $40k a year with summers off part time in the NYC area.</p>
<p>I never thought this discussion would grow so big, but it actually gave a lot of insight on what loans and spending during college. Thanks All!</p>
<p>We have a friend who graduated from UoChicago undergrad and law school, and claims to have had more than $100,000 in student loan debt in early 1990s. Was that even possible back then?</p>
<p>I have just finished a long discussion with my son (an NYU student) about the 3.8% increase in tuition next year. </p>
<p>We can’t understand why the price keeps going up. My sons says that the school isn’t luxurious, and it certainly didn’t look fancy when we dropped him off. </p>
<p>I know that NYU is expanding overseas. Could it be that part of the cost is the growth in other countries?</p>
<p>It isn’t fair, what’s happening to this generation of kids.</p>