<p>Sophies World- Jostein Gaarder, look at the big picture:
Who are you?
And Where do you come from?
How can nothing create nothing (or god create himself)?</p>
<p>Discuss.</p>
<p>-Who am I?
I have no idea. I am ashley, but who is that? I am a person, I am not sure what that really means, I evolutionarilly come from a neanderthal. There are millions of people, I am nothing but a small insect in comparrison.</p>
<p>-Where do I come from?
The earth. My mom. The universe. But what relevance does all of this have? Our planet was created by the big bang. But what created the things that created the big bang? And what created that stuff and so on? Somewhere down the line, something must have either been created from nothing, or the universe always existed… is that possible?</p>
<p>Intersting ideas!!! Discuss, please! What are your thoughts?</p>
<p>ugh here we go again. religion vs science. </p>
<p>but since the thread has been started after all ;] …
who am i? i have no idea. a mortal destined to live on earth, decided by the almighty. where do i come from? a uterus. the world created by a bing bang, i agree. though i feel the great almighty created the bing bang. science doesn’t prove how the big bang just happened to have happened. …uhh ok thats it. can’t think anymore xD</p>
<p>Who are you? I am nothing. Well at least, nothing that can be defined by a set of stereotypes. I could be a nerd. I could be asian on the outside. Maybe a little white or something on the inside. I could be a jock. There are a lot of things I could be. Musician? Leader? Prankster? Maybe in that sense, I’m everything.</p>
<p>And Where do you come from? My mother’s womb…</p>
<p>How can nothing create nothing (or god create himself)? We may never know.</p>
<p>whooooo are you? who who? who who? whooooo are you? who who? who who?</p>
<p>^Wow… that is all I have to say… just wow</p>
<p>I know who I am</p>
<p>Where do I come from? Well, I like to think that I (literally) come from the stars.</p>
<p>How can nothing create nothing? I don’t think that is possible. The reason is along the ines of the reasoning behind I think therefore I am.</p>
<p>But that question isn’t one that has to be answered. It assumes that nothing indeed must have created nothing. The universe never actually had to have a beginning. There are plenty of mathematically consistent theories which propose a sort of universe that has always been around. For example, stephen hawking’s no boundary condition. NOthing even has to create this universe that has always been there. This universe did not have any beginning. Mathemathically that is. Of course this theory awaits empirical evidence, or perhaps maybe it has been disproved already. </p>
<p>to desi: What happened “before” the big bang (more precisely, what caused it) may be outside the realm of empirical observation. Although you need to keep in mind that time is considered to begin at the big bang. So it doesn’t make sense, in the current framework, to talk about something happening “before” the big bang. I’m not sure of how to make this clearer, it is not an intuitive idea. It’s like asking what is “outside” the universe. The question doesn’t make sense because the concept of “outside” is tied to space. Again, there are other frameworks in which there are events preceding the big bang, but they, as far as I know, do not have empirical evidence yet. I’m not even sure if they are falsifiable.</p>
<p>As for bringing in god… don’t.</p>
<p>^Well… hmm… the big bang created OUR solar system, not the entire universe; therefore, time is relative to us here, but not say on some star or w/e outside our universe.
It is so complicated, I can’t really begin to think about it, or understand a lot of the ideas. That’s why I was asking for peoples opinions.</p>
<p>How can the universe have been around forever?</p>
<p>no, the big bang is the starting point of the whole universe, not just our solar system. What do you mean “time is relative to us here, but not say on …”? As in, clarify please.</p>
<p>I don’t see any reason that the universe could not have been around forever. You can express such a universe in terms of consistent mathematics, so there is evidence that such a universe is indeed possible (or at least, such a universe would have our usual rules of logic)</p>
<p>itt: mysteries of the universe solved by high-schoolers</p>
<p>Lol… well in my opinion the big bang only created our solar system. I mean think about it. If the big bang in theory created everything, then what created the big bang; thus, by using the theory nothing can create nothing, there had to be something before the big bang. SO in my opinion the big bang only created our solar system, because I still like the idea, it seems logical and my mind can agree with that.
Alright… if the big bang created the universe, then what was before the universe? Nothing? Dark empty space? How much dark empty space? Why was it there? How did it get there? If you look at it as it would be relative to the big bang, there must have been something, atleast before inorder to create something. So since nothing can create nothing, this “darkness” before the universe must have been something… so what created this?</p>
<p>This can go on and on and on.
Plus… inorder for a big bang to happen out of nothing, there would have to have been something, particles of concentrated hydrogen that over time would condense (as is the theory), to create the big bang? If there was nothing but darkness, how could the darkness have created hydrogen?!? </p>
<p>Do you see why this is confusing?</p>
<p>As for the relativeness of time: If you consider what time is, this will make sense. To us it measured by our orbit around the sun. However, this cannot be true to every other place. So you want to believe there is some over all measurment of time? Sure. There is a theory that time is less permanent than we may think, though. For instance if I were to fly a plane around the earth, the opposite direction of the rotation, just outside the earths pull, the distance traveled would not equal Rate times Time. As the plane would reach the starting point ~2 seconds sooner than expected.
Where did the time go?
This was an expiriment we learned about in chemistry class. That is why I said time is only relevent to us. It is really really hard to wrap your head around, I think. It is like earth in terms of energy equals mass times the speed of light squared affects time on our planet. </p>
<p>Is time a permanent, unchangeable thing? (think again) ;)</p>
<p>did you read my post? It does not make sense to ask what “created” the big bang as that verb requires that time exist. It does not make sense to ask what came “before” it, just as it does not make sense to ask what is outside of the universe. In fact, the modern view of what the big bang is is completely different from what you are thinking of. It is an expansion of space itself, so it doesn’t make sense to say that it only created a solar system or something like that. Simply put, all the evidence points to this:</p>
<p>[Big</a> Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang]Big”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang)</p>
<p>That is a good read if you want to find out more about what the big bang actually is.</p>
<p>Again:</p>
<p>1) As we understand it, it does not make sense to ask what came “before” the big bang</p>
<p>2) The big bang is what is described on the wikipedia page. THere is no empirical support for any sort of “bang” crating the solar system.</p>
<p>Time:</p>
<p>Yes, time is a strange thing. What is nice is that we have several consistent cycles with which we measure time. One, for example, is the decay of caesium. Others include pendulum swings and the like. Now, of course, there is no reason that, by themselves, they should be thought of as periodic. But they do match up wonderfully well. So to believe that they are indeed periodic is the simplest explanation.</p>
<p>I think that what you are referring to is called the theory of relativity, which is what einstein was famous for. These bizzare effects are a result of the empirical observation that the speed of light is invariant for all reference frames. If you want to know more about it (and about the nature of space and time in general, all of the things that you are asking about), I’d recommend Brian Greene’s “The Fabric of the Cosmos.”</p>
<p>Who are you? Nickey Jafari, but im not sure who i am. I know WHAT i am. im just a product of my experiences and other people’s ideas and opinions growing up
And Where do you come from? my mom. tehran. a sperm cell that fertilized an egg cell
How can nothing create nothing (or god create himself)?
ouch this one gives me a headache. nothing cant create nothing. but there has to be a god… how can living matter arise from nonliving matter?
haha what came first, the chicken or the egg?</p>
<p>Yeah, you’re stating my point. Okay so lets say the big bang created the universe, even if this created time and such, how did it begin? Do you see what I am saying? I am saying it is impossible from nothing to come from nothing. How can a univrse be created out of something that doesn’t exist? That is like saying an apple could pop up right in front of me right now! Out of thin air!</p>
<p>Anyway the big bang came from four dense gases, mostly hydrogen, your article agrees:
</p>
<p>How can space expand into nothing? Maybe it is irrelavent to you! But there has to be an answer! Think about it, it is impossible for nothing to create nothing, even if you want the answer to be simple!</p>
<p>Anyhow… the fact that nothing came before the big bang was a theory mostly deminished in 2006. The theory is that everything started in a second, gases created yada yada, and they condensed rapidly causing a bang creating the universe. Even if time is relative to the beginning of the big bang, there was things before, even if only for a few seconds.</p>
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<p>The Big Bounce model postulates that that the universe can only expand so much, until it starts receding to an infinitesimally tiny point. Then, conditions are right of another Big Bang. This would suggest that the nature of the universe is cyclic, and thus has no beginning. It has an end though, because the Second Law of Thermodynamics commands that entropy continues to rise regardless. </p>
<p>This is a hugely debated topic in physics, and as such offers a multitude of explanations. Some better than others.</p>
<p>
I have no scientific backing on this question, so I’ll just give you this thought experiment.</p>
<p>The vacuum of space is theorized to be immersed in two fields: the higgs field (which consists of higgs bosons) and the gravitational field (which consists of gravitons). Calculuations of the total mass of the universe suggests that there is (much) more than what the observable universe has to offer - we get dark matter and dark energy. Finally, quantum physics agrees that, at small (plank length) sizes, the universe can be seen to oscillate and fluctuate - quantum jitters. </p>
<p>Now, emptiness is the lack of all this. No tiny vibrating strings, no fields or particles, no dark energy. And nothing has to create this emptiness, because it has no mass/energy and thus complies with the law of conservation of energy. This emptiness is completely different from the pseudo-emptiness of our universe. Therefore, like a balloon expanding into our air, you can imagine a (not-so-empty) universe expanding into an infinite nothing.</p>
<p>I don’t think that was a very strong argument, so take it for what it’s worth. </p>
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<p>Not gases, particles. Fully formed atomic structures would be weird at that stage of development.</p>
<p>What are you guys talking about? You’re all taking this game way too seriously. Seriously, get off the virtual reality simulator and do something productive with your lives for once. If you haven’t noticed, there’s a war going on. How are we going to defeat dark matter when all you lazy matters won’t fight for the future of the baryonic universe?</p>
<p>Alright new question. How can something exist forever???</p>
<p>Okay the war matters. I agree that there are better things to concern yourself with, but I am fighting a war of knowledge, thank you very much! And plus… if it weren’t for people who thought about this, the sun would be a god, and such. So the war would not be as technological if people stopped thinking and just fought!!!</p>
<p>^ Lol, I think he was just making a joke.</p>
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<p>Do you mean particles and such? The Law of Conservation of Energy and the First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy (and matter by extension) can neither be created nor destroyed.</p>
<p>I know that, but that is not my question? How can something exist forever? If nothing can be created or destroyed then the universe has had to have been around forever! Some people think that the big bang was the start of everything? But how can nothing create something? Therefore it has to have been going on before that!</p>