<p>Rights and wrongs are created by humans. We are the only things in the known UNIVERSE that function on a right or wrong basis. The universe and nature follow a casual concept. Without a supreme being who is to say who is right or who is wrong?
A panda bear must decide on which newborn cub to feed if she has twins and there are scarce resources. Is it right or wrong to deliberatively kill your son in order to save another? no one can say its right or wrong.
A supernova less than 100 parsecs away can kill almost everything in Earth. is it right or wrong? no its just cause and effect</p>
<p>I go to church. I'm a member of the Reverend Billy Church of Stop Shopping.</p>
<p>I go to church of on dog.</p>
<p>Stop mocking my faith-based, no evidence having beliefs--said the believer.</p>
<p>The Atheist with Insomnia and Dyslexia stays up many nights wondering if there really is a Dog.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IT IS NOT the youthful rebellion thing. I've been atheist for as long as I can remember.
[/quote]
So basically, since you were young?</p>
<p>Well yes, heh. I was trying to say I didn't rebel against anything, though - I wasn't religious first and then "OMGZ NO I DIDN'T DO WELL ON THE TEST GOD HATES ME, NO WAIT, HE CAN'T HATE SO HE DOESN'T EXIST!" I've always been atheist, and my parents are like cultural / humanistic Hindus.</p>
<p>Blaze, will respond to your post in a bit. Have to go now.</p>
<p>I have to admit, I find the idea that athiests are only athiests because they're rebelling a little insulting. I could say that all Christians are only Christians because they are brainwashed. Their parents were Christians, as were all the people in their community, and so they simply accepted the doctrine without question. If they had independent minds of their own, they would not believe.</p>
<p>Clearly, that is completely nonsensical. Not all Christians even come from a Christian background, and I must assume that the people on CC are in general highly intelligent and so completely capable of deciding their beliefs for themselves, regardless of what anyone else believes or says. Even so, you can see how insulting and pointless such accusations are. As a Christian would read my above paragraph and think that I was being closeminded, judgemental and insulting, an Athiest would read the comment that Athiests are closeminded rebels who are simply refusing to see the truth of God to make a point as equally closeminded and insulting. It's the debating equivilant of putting your hands over your ears and shouting 'lalala I can't hear you'. Many intelligent people are athiests. Many intelligent people are religious. Both sides can't be right, but both sides can have a valid argument, and you can't simply dismiss one as trivial.</p>
<p>I myself am more agnostic than athiest. I have rather athiest thoughts when for example I hear of atrocities on the news (the December 26th tsunami springs to mind. In Britain, at least, that date is Boxing Day, a significant part of Christmas, and it is hard for me to imagine why any god would kill thousands of innocent people on a religious day like that), but then occasionally things happen that make me think there might be something, although I cannot even imagine what that something might be. However, I doubt I could ever be part of organised religion, because of the prejudice that it seems to breed. Again, I am of course not saying that all religious people are prejudiced or closeminded. I am simply saying that certain branches of religion can be. Further up the thread, people have been arguing that religion is what provides morals for humanity. Without it, we would be like any other animal. However, religion is far from moral. How many wars have been waged purely on the basis of religion? And then add in those that were at least influenced by religion. There are just too many to count! How many people were burnt at the stake around the 1500s in Europe, first for being Catholic, then for being Protestant? How many innocent people have been killed, simply for not agreeing with the accepted religion, or even just being in the wrong place at the wrong time while religion got paranoid? </p>
<p>And before people begin to argue that those events and wars are far in the past, and that religion is not like that now, think of current events. Suicide bombings, in America, in Europe, in the Middle East, everywhere, and all based on religious beliefs. We see these people are purely evil. They see themselves as martyrs, serving religion. Of course, a closeminded person could say that that is not Christianity, but I'm just citing an extreme example of what is true, at least in part, for all religions. You only have to look at Fred Phelps and his church to see that Christianity does not always equal morality. </p>
<p>In fact, the idea that only religious people can be moral seems to almost entirely contradict the idea of morality, or at least what it means to me. We as humans are highly sentinent beings, aware of the emotions of others. If a person has any sort of sensitivity, it is not difficult to come to the conclusion that you shouldn't do anything that would harm others. If only religious people can be moral, then morality cannot be based on this understanding, but on an outside influence - God - and either desire for his approval or fear of his disapproval. This would therefore make being moral an entirely selfish impulse, which in turn would change the entire point of being moral.</p>
<p>Again, of course, there are many truly caring and selfless Christians, just as there are many caring and selfless non-Christians. However, simply being Christian does not automatically make a person Mother Theresa, and this belief that the label 'Christianity' automatically gives you the moral highground is completely ridiculous. If Mother Theresa had done all her amazing charity work but had not been a Christian, would that have made her work any less remarkable? Of course not.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to say that all Christians are close minded or bigoted or any other insult. Many Christians are good, moral people who have looked inside themselves and realised that there simply must be a God. But many Athiests are also good, moral people who have looked around and decided that there cannot be a god. And one side is not better than the other. Just as certain Christians are aggressive in their persecution of, say, homosexuality, and use 'morality' to justify such behaviour, certain Athiests can be aggressive in their attacks on religion. I think Christianity, in its purest, spiritual form, is a wonderful concept, with its emphasis on acceptance and forgiveness. However, the 'good samaritan' aspects of Christianity are often lost on its most zealous members, and so although Christians can be moral, they are not universally so, and they certainly do not have a monopoly on the concept.</p>
<p>dallyra, i didnt say christians were any more moral than atheists on a one- by- one basis. There are very good and righteous atheists, and very evil christians (fred phelps).</p>
<p>All I was trying to say is, without the presence of God and Jesus in my life, I dont think I be living quite as righteously as I am. Some Christians and Christian customs give our entire lot the bad name, such as extremists, but in general the world would be a worse place if we were all atheists.</p>
<p>Also, Fred phelps is not a christian, fred phelps is preaching satans work, and dont confuse his message of hate with the message of love preached by jesus.</p>
<p>dude, education has gone so advanced, it leaves no room for religion. also at church, it's the out-going popular blokes that do all the heroic mission trips and drammatic praises...i'm utterly in shambles in terms of my religious faith...</p>
<p>how should i solve this? yes, i must go to tahiti and find a truer primitive greatness.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I highly doubt that a state school would be mostly agnostic/atheist (esp. considering that Michigan is not one of the less religious states).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Clearly you are not familiar with everyone's best buddy, James Dobson:</p>
<p>"State Universities are breeding grounds, quite literally, for sexually transmitted diseases (including HIV), homosexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, alcoholism, and drug abuse."</p>
<p>While the initial comments from this subject seemed to focus on a purportedly large number of atheists attending a college discussion group meeting, the comments have predictably spiraled in various directions. Some proclaiming to have a religious conviction seem to be denouncing those described as atheists. In response, those admitting to be atheists have not taken kindly to what they perceive to be insults and have retorted in kind. No one likes to feel as if they are being attacked I suppose.</p>
<p>While I would be happy to extensively discuss this subject with anyone, for now, I would merely point out that most non-specialized colleges are designed to be exactly what they promote, diverse. Be it through race, sex, state residency, religious affiliation (if it can be discerned through the application process), these institutions are designed to bring many with little in common together on a campus to eat, drink, live (excluding non-commuters), go to class, make use of school facilities, etc. with one another 24/7. As a result, these arrangements create de facto families for the student body whether they care about each other or not. Understandably, enduring this for the majority of every year and for four plus years can be a daunting challenge for many.</p>
<p>Whether or not one agrees with the standards of every college student, the only redeeming value these arrangements have is that they provide many with their entry level training of learning to deal with a wide array of people and personalities before being asked to do such in the real world. Many parents provide their children with controlled living environments growing up whereby they can pacify, place or remove them from various environments while growing up if they so choose. When it comes to college, however, there should be no surprises as to the 31 flavors of students one should expect to encounter on a campus. With that in mind, these distinctions exist to the extreme whether you are talking about students that attend Harvard or Despised University. Quite often, the only training teens undergo prior to college is building the appropriate resume on paper that would qualify them for acceptance. Most, however, lack the expertise in dealing with people far different from themselves.</p>
<p>I do have a strong conviction on this subject but Ill defer from making it pending further posts.</p>
<p>I love how religious/aethist clashes on forums always have the longest posts.</p>
<p>atheists, to be honest, have very poor arguments. they may come up with all the clever facts and obvious oddities, but they are nothing in the realm of spiritual debate of nous, the One, the Soul, the realm of "ideas" and "forms" (first articulated by plato).</p>
<p>sorry to break it to u atheists, but it's almost time that christians are gaining back the ground they have lost in the debate on physical world. it's time to wield the flaming sword of justice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Clearly you are not familiar with everyone's best buddy, James Dobson:</p>
<p>"State Universities are breeding grounds, quite literally, for sexually transmitted diseases (including HIV), homosexual behavior, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, alcoholism, and drug abuse."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That doesn't mean that they are atheist/agnostic (frankly, a lot of Christians practice the above behaviors too). I'm sure that the percentage of atheists/agnostics might number 25-35%, but I doubt that it would form an outright majority of students in the school.</p>
<p>I notice that forums have a large number of aethists and agnostics.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That doesn't mean that they are atheist/agnostic (frankly, a lot of Christians practice the above behaviors too). I'm sure that the percentage of atheists/agnostics might number 25-35%, but I doubt that it would form an outright majority of students in the school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Obviously you missed the sarcasm in my post.</p>
<p>i know a kid who makes the cross when he bats in baseball =----PRAISE JESUS- ALCOHOL AND PREMARITAL SEX ARE THE DEVIL</p>
<p>"atheists, to be honest, have very poor arguments. they may come up with all the clever facts and obvious oddities, but they are nothing in the realm of spiritual debate of nous, the One, the Soul, the realm of "ideas" and "forms" (first articulated by plato).</p>
<p>sorry to break it to u atheists, but it's almost time that christians are gaining back the ground they have lost in the debate on physical world. it's time to wield the flaming sword of justice."</p>
<p>This guy has no idea what he's talking about.</p>
<p>Hahaha. That kids was so g** today.</p>