In California publics, nursing is predominantly offered by CSUs (which have lower list prices than UCs and are more likely to be within commuting distance, since there are more CSUs than UCs). However, nursing is an impacted major with more competitive admission standards at all CSUs.
@Hunt : The community colleges around here vary a lot, both from one to the next, and in terms of the quality of classes within the same college. And also whom they serve. The wealthiest suburban counties tend to have relatively high-quality CCs – there’s a shocker! – and I think the Philadelphia CC has some real pockets of quality. I believe most or all of them have terrible stats when it comes to students eventually completing a BA. There’s nothing like the established CC-to-UC system in California. And, to tell the truth, many of the PASSHEs themselves are not much more than glorified community colleges. They vary a lot, too, but it would be a mistake to think of them as equivalent to the CSUs, not to mention the newer UCs. You would not likely be happy with one of them as an option for your children.
I see the hating on the PASSHE schools again. Direct costs - i.e. tuition, room, board and fees are right around 20k. Do they list higher cost of living and travel expenses so kids can take more loans if they need or want them? Yes. No, they don’t have a real engineering school - but you need to be a good student to be an engineer and if you’re a good student, Temple via merit scholarships will probably be cheaper than a PASSHE school anyway.
Pennsylvania’s system is fine. And for the vast majority of Pennsylvanians, there is no excuse for big loans.
In California, a late bloomer or turnaround student with a mediocre high school record can find engineering at a less selective CSU (CSUSac, CSUN, CSULA, etc.) or through the lower cost CC->CSU/UC transfer path. What options does such a student in Pennsylvania have?
The answer is easy/obvious.
Anyone who picks a college option that is more expensive than what they can afford to pay from savings and current income.
The only people who HAVE to go into debt are poor kids who get no support from their families. That is a tough road to hoe. Those are also the kids who get preyed upon by the for-profit schools pushing student loans.
Beyond that, it is totally a choice. Live at home, two years at CC, attend the lowest cost college possible, work part time and full time summers, etc. That will avoid any debt in almost all cases.
But those options are often quite unappealing. So parents/kids pick more expensive options that (surprise!) result in loan debt. Although he is an total outlier example, Martin O’Malley is your poster child for making a college choice that results in a debt load.
Whether the debt incurred is worth it or not is a completely different conversation.
Students of average academic calibre from rural areas with lower-middle class background.
^^^A PA student could go the CC route and then Temple. Temple will give good transfer students small scholarships. A student may have to take on some debt but not a ridiculous amount.
@JHS, I think your estimate of total COAs at PASSHE is way off.
Bloomsburg: $9326 (T&F) + $1000 (Bks) + $8480 (R&B) + $1000 (Other) = $19806.
http://www.bloomu.edu/fees
http://reslife.bloomu.edu/costs.php
IUP: $9936 (T&F) + $1000 (Bks) + $11230 (R&B) + $1000 (Other) = $23166.
http://www.iup.edu/bursar/tuitionfees/undergraduate/
http://www.iup.edu/housing/forms/housing-policies/housing-costs-fall-and-spring/
http://iup.campusdish.com/Commerce/Catalog/ShopSubCategory.aspx?category=All_Products_6591&lid=6591&root=Meal_Plan
Slippery Rock: $9674 (T&F) + $1500 (Bks) + $6890 (R&B) + $1000 (Other) = $19064.
http://www.sru.edu/Documents/admissions/tuition-and-fees/UGIS.pdf
https://www.aviserves.com/sru/meal-and-dining-plans.html
West Chester: $9460 (T&F) + $1000 (Bks) + $8120 (R&B) + $1000 (Other) = $19580.
https://www.wcupa.edu/_information/afa/fiscal/bursar/tuition.asp#UndergraduateInState
Lock Haven: $9665 (T&F) + $1000 (Bks) + $9344 (R&B) + $1000 (Other) = $21009.
http://www.lhup.edu/Admissions/cost-information.html
Those were just random schools I pulled, using the numbers for a standard double (except IUP which is mostly more expensive suites) and the best or next best meal plan.
However, I will agree with you that their aid offers could be better for in-state students.
What is so hard to understand about an average hours per week? 40 hours a week for 20 weeks and 15 hours per week for 32 weeks works out to about 25 hours per week. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. Seen it done by some pretty middle class kids.
As far as living at home is concerned, it already was costing the parents money with the kid in HS. So as far as I am concerned, there is no cost. It’s just a matter of perspective.
I am describing almost exactly how Mrs. Decidesomehow went to college. Money is not a barrier to college. It may be a barrier to what you want, but not what is available.
Pennsylvania has a PHEAA grant, but I don’t know how it works - I think it phases out around 100k and we earn too much to qualify so I never really looked into it. But when I briefly checked the amount, it was like 2 grand a year from the state toward a PA in state school. Don’t know if it’s only for high stats kids.
Y’all should check out the Washington Monthly’s college rankings, especially the “Best Bang for the Buck” rankings. Unlike most rankings, they show you what the actual average price charged is for various income levels. So you can see what the price charged really is rather than getting distracted by the sticker prices. If you don’t pay sticker then sticker is meaningless to you.
There are colleges everywhere (including PA) where the average net price charged to a family in the $30-75k income range is between $10-15k per year. Less if you live at home or do some time at CC.
Commuting to Temple in Philly will cost you under $10k a year.
Unless you are a kid in a really tough situation, college debt is a choice not a necessity. But what you can pay for may not look that great.
@DrGoogle, it’s possible that the cheaper nursing schools are too difficult to get in to for that kid.
So to the list of people who don’t have high stats, are middle/lower class and live in states where publics are relatively high cost with poor aid, add in those who want to enter a high cost major like nursing.
Yes, I was off – I was looking at Millersville’s COA (I couldn’t derive a clear number from the West Chester site, and Millersville is probably the more likely option around here for an average student), and I inadvertently used the out-of-state number. In-state at Millersville is $21,000 per year, not $30,000.
For a Philadelphia student, only West Chester would be theoretically commutable on public transportation, and that would be a very theoretical, inconvenient commute – 1-1/2 - 2 hours each way from/to Center City, more if you lived anywhere but West Philadelphia near the blue line el.
I ran the Temple net price calculator for a commuting student with average grades and SATs whose parents earned a total of $100,000, and it was $20,000 before loans. I note that Temple is no longer an automatic option for kids with average grades and SATs.
our neighbors had to sell their house (and move into a condo) to put their kid through MIT. It’s been 5 years and they have no regrets.
^^^These days, any kid who can get into West Chester would likely get the merit scholarship discount at Temple. West Chester is a tough school to get into. In reality, a Philadelphia kid who didn’t get the Temple discount is probably going to spend two years at Community College.
Nursing education - availability of programs, costs, quality of program - there are lists of schools state by state through their state board of nursing. Programs vary from LPN (some states may call them LVN), two year ADRN, and up. The 3 year RN programs (which were hospital based) have pretty much phased all out - during the 1970’s the went to the ADRN and BSN programs. Many 3 year RNs that were working in hospitals for years may have finished a BS degree in something else just so they could be promote-able w/o re-taking nursing classes. Now there are often two types of PhD tracks for a really sizable ‘flagship’ school, and many nurse practitioner programs. Historically Nurse Anesthetist programs have been around a long time.
States also have data on how well schools do for their nursing students passing their license exam.
You want competent nurses, who are the eyes and ears on patient care and often can help provide MDs with guidance on patient needs.
28 "As far as living at home is concerned, it already was costing the parents money with the kid in HS. So as far as I am concerned, there is no cost. It's just a matter of perspective. I am describing almost exactly how Mrs. Decidesomehow went to college. Money is not a barrier to college. It may be a barrier to what you want, but not what is available."
That’s how I did it. Living and eating at home cost me nothing and cost my parents exactly the same as what they paid when I was in HS. They provided me free use of a car (I paid for the gas) which was HUGE since it enabled me much easier access to school and also made it much easier for me to always have a part time job during school and full time in the summer. Zero debt and I (not my parents) wrote the checks to the bursar.
It wasn’t all that hard (at least for a motivated student like me). It just wasn’t much fun. I made up for it when I went away to grad school – where I had a lot of fun and also ran up a lot of debt…
I think she is within distance to several CSUs. Perhaps she is not knowledgeable about the nursing program at the CSUs is the only thing I can think off. I don’t know the kid’s stats.
In NYS, I can’t see it not being feasible for any middle income family to send a child to a suny school its only about 6-7,000 and board it about 10,000
@DrGoogle, right, so if her stats aren’t high enough, she may not be able to enter the nursing programs at those CSU’s.
@a20171, NYS has decent fin aid programs, but if those didn’t exist, I certainly could see how a family making $60K would have trouble coming up with $17K a year (or even $7K a year).