<p>well, those students from PA still have a plenty of incentive to choose Penn State: in state tuition at an institution well known with good academic standing (for now). The benefit still outweighs the cost.</p>
<p>What they are likely to lose are out of state students. Why bother paying something close to a private school education when there is so much uncertainty about the school’s reputation, etc. Why not choose schools with equal academic standing like UNC - as an OOS student, there is no tuition $$$ incentive what so ever… SUNY system has good campuses also with academic standing on par or better. And, the football reputation will be in tatters for a while so that’s not going to be an attraction either. Honestly, if a HS senior is asking my input, I would say, go somewhere else. Why voluntarily incur this kind of baggage when there are plenty of other options that are just as good. Even Harvard won’t necessarily weather the storm scott free, and Penn Stat ain’t no Harvard.</p>
<p>And, most well known state schools are trying to attract more and more OOS students both for the money and also a prestige of being positioned as a university with national attraction. Michigan, Berkeley, UVA, UNC are all in that category and the likes of U Illinois and U Wisconsin are all trying to follow that foot step. Penn State, I am afraid, is going to lag behind on this strategic front. </p>
<p>By the way, in my mind, the most damaging thing I saw in this whole scandal vis-a-vis Penn State as an institution as a whole, was NOT the scandal itself. It was the scene of the student rioting chanting “one more game”. That did it for me. That image, regardless of whether it’s truly representative of the student body or not, was MOST damaging. The scandal could be attributed to a few bad apples. The riot told me what the heart and soul of Penn State tradition is all about: Football above everything else! That’s not a university of high academic standing. it’s a sports enterprise. </p>
<p>You can say forever that it’s only a minority of the students. Tell that to Muslims who have nothing to do with the 0.001 % of their population who actually go and blow themselves up in a suicide bombing, and ask how they feel on a daily basis singled out at the airports for extra security. Compared to the terrorist % in Muslim population, close to 10% of students at Penn State rioting is astronomically higher percentage. We constantly question and demand why moderate Muslims are not condemning the terrorists in their midst and we hold them sort of culpable because of the lack of this collective damnation. So, those of you who really love Penn State, the best thing you can do now to restore the tattered image due to the rioting is swift and decisive condemnation, NOT excuses.</p>
<p>Then you really don’t know much about the character of the majority of students at PSU.</p>
<p>Yes, football is important. But so is character. .
They can’t control what the adults around them do - but they control their own actions.</p>
<p>The true character of the Penn State students/alums is being shown with their grass-roots (not school affiliated) movements to raise money and awareness for victims of child abuse. Not because they have to, or because it looks good on their resumes - but because it is important to them.</p>
<p>In the marketing industry, perception is reality. The scenes of rioting have done immeasurable damage to Penn State’s reputation in the minds of a lot of people: prospective students, prospective employers, parents of prospective students, prospective faculty, the non-penn alum donors, etc. Left unaddressed, this will have a deleterious effect on Penn State as an institution years going forward.</p>
<p>So, fair or not, the onus is on Penn State students. Doing charity work is great. What else are you going to do to counterbalance the image of rioting that is so well publicized? </p>
<p>Will the student association come out in an unequivocal manner and apologize for the riot? Will it condemn it? Will they say unequivocally that Penn State rises WELL ABOVE it’s footfall craze and show it in action? Will they organize a week of “football free” period where all the attention is on academics? Surely, the athletes are supposed to be students first, so what of it if they miss ONE game - doesn’t sound like such a sacrifice if Penn State is an academic institution foremost before anything else, as a University should be. If not, why not? That’s the crux of the matter, isn’t it? Just like silent moderate Muslims who refuse to condemn the terrorists in their midst, and who become “suspects” in the minds of the general population as a result…</p>
<p>What Big 10 school had 3000 students out protesting the ban on alcohol at tailgates, resulting in police firing teargas into the crowd in 1998 and over 5000 students protesting the following year because their school lost in the Final Four? (Damage assessments ranged from $250,000 to near $500,000 and 71 students were arrested.) Seven years later another Final Four loss resulted in almost $200,000 in damages and law enforcement expenses. </p>
<p>I’ll bet few remember which school it was (unless they follow basketball) though the reasons for the rioting were indefensible. I’m not defending what the PSU students did, but at least they were protesting because the felt their coach had been unfairly treated (misguided though they may have been).</p>
<p>I don’t believe that the poor behavior by the students is what will cause the stain on PSU’s reputation. It will be the behavior of Jerry Sandusky and everyone whose inaction allowed his behavior to continue.</p>
<p>not a good comparison. Most people who do not follow college basketball did not pay much attention to this other incident you are talking about.</p>
<p>However, the Penn State riot was in conjunction with THE MOST TALKED ABOUT scandal of the year (perhaps more). It’s been thoroughly publicized. There are people who have never heard of Penn State before and now this is their introduction to this school. watch Jon Stewart’s segment on Penn State student riot. It’s very damning. </p>
<p>As an outsider, I am pointing out that being defensive and coming up with excuses for the students’ behavior (regardless of how unfairly under or non representative it may be of the entirety of the Penn State culture) is NOT helping. Circling the wagon in this case is actually making it far worse. It gives the bystanders like me an impression that the rioting students are actually representative of the general culture and mindset at Penn State. </p>
<p>I have no dog in this fight. I came to this site out of curiosity regarding how the community is reacting. So far, I am underwhelmed by the lack of genuine introspection - at least as it shows on this forum, that is.</p>
<p>I very much agree. The financial obligations down the road as payouts are going to be enormous, never mind the lost revenue from the football program. And if you think people will forget the images of your students in the streets furious at the dismissal of their coach anytime soon, you are mistaken. It was a huge shock to the country; we had no reason to expect such a reaction and we are having a very difficult time understanding it.</p>
<p>Depending on what happens in the next few months, Penn State can fall or even rise on my college list. This administrative scandal can happen in many schools, especially big-sports schools. It’s like the VA Tech massacre in some ways. In the long run, the fact that it happened is less important than how it was dealt with. If the school’s students, faculty and alum can rise from the ashes, and the Blue Out is certainly a step in the right direction, I will have even more respect for Penn State than before. The football craze was actually a turn-off for me. Now I know it will be kept in check in the future.</p>
<p>I have only visited Penn State once, but I could feel that Paterno was like a benevolent grandfather to many people there. A sudden and public humiliation of one’s grandfather is guaranteed to incite strong reactions. Given the density of young population in that town, the riot, if you could call it that, was actually quite tame. I blame the riot mostly on how the board made the announcement. They were so eager to show off how righteous and decisive they were. Yet, by their own standards, they should all have resigned in shame.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree Paterno should not be in this week’s game. That’s a no-brainer. I don’t know how hard the board had tried to get him to step down voluntarily. Even if they had tried their best and Paterno still wanted to serve out the season, they could have put him on leave immediately. But firing? What about due process? He did not witness a crime. He failed to call the police about a hearsay. He was not charged. I don’t think even a janitor should be fired immediately. The firing of the school president was more understandable. He made those idiotic statements on Sunday, and apparently failed to handle the situation afterwards. The president can be fired at least on performance grounds, but Paterno still professes innocence and should be given due process. It’s the American way. We are not a lynching mob, or are we?</p>
<p>The board and other adults had made a bad situation worse, but somehow I think the students can still save Penn State.</p>
<p>Student gov’t did come out and condemn the riot, which I still contend is being characterized in a completely unfair fashion. It was neither representative in quantity or attitude of the VAST majority of students. If you “have a hard time understanding” it’s because you will not accept the premise of the students posting here, or will not accept that it is not PSU’s job to help you understand anything. It’s a little low on the priority list right now. Clearly there is no amount of explaining that will defuse the PSU haters; they want to believe what they’ve decided to believe. It is a terrible situation. It is bad in every way you could imagine. But at some point, even CC people will have to move on to another subject. You can only say “the admins should have done better” so many ways, so many times before you begin to sound like people rolling in delight over a terrible tragedy.</p>
<p>It looks as if some of the PSU students have deleted their posts.
Thank you.
Because those posts were poorly thought out and vitriolic, and does not help the situation.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is a PSU hater here. Nor is anyone rolling in delight, greenbutton. How could you even say that when at the heart of this tragedy were innocent children.</p>
<p>That’s fine. It’s no skin off my nose. You can keep thinking this way and dismiss all the people outside of the Happy Valley as being “not understanding” while your beloved PSU slides further down in the minds of all the outsiders. In the end, PSU collectively pays the price, not us the “not-understanding outsiders”.</p>
<p>You could do something to actually change the minds of those of us, or you could just blame us for not understanding. It’s not my loss what so ever, but yours.</p>
<p>It’s like watching the business with scandal blaming the customers for not understanding their issue better. Do that and watch all your customers vote with their feet. Customers in this case being outstanding prospective students, prospective world class faculty, parents of prospective students, prospective employers, etc.</p>
<p>I say that because there are 1,500 posts on CC about this – roughly — and any attempt to say anything remotely positive about PSU is met with great bitterness and contempt. I say that because there is not an intelligent conversation about abuse, why it happens and how every community can better guard against it, present in these forums. I say that because there’s an overly repetitive nature to posts that only serve to inflame and condemn, and I wonder what the motivation for that is, if it isn’t enjoying the arguing, confrontation and pot-stirring. Your last line is kinda my point: if the “innocent victim” argument trumps all others, there’s not much to be talking about, and yet it goes on and on. Nobody at PSU is denying great evil stalked our town, and could have been stopped. </p>
<p>As I’ve pointed out before, the victims are people we know, and we also know there will be more, and we might know them, too. About 12,000 people stood in sub-freezing temps tonight to stand with them, in front of our Admin building, but already pundits and posters dismiss this as “too little” and “blood money”.</p>
<p>Prospective students should take caution if they choose to attend Penn State. I hope their reasons are for the right reasons because the reputation of Penn State is going to change, whether you like it or not. The scandal MAY or MAY NOT just be the tip of the iceberg. It is possible that there will be a bigger picture behind all of this. If any of these allegations are true and lead to a bigger conspiracy, then Penn State will be much worse than it is now.</p>
<p>Penn State MAY or MAY NOT suspend or lose its football team for 1 or 2 years. It’s possible. At the same time, the university’s credit rating will likely be downgraded. In general, the social stigma of Penn State will be associated with this scandal. Even 50 years from now, due to how big and publicized this scandal is, Penn State will be known for a long time as “that school that harbored a pedophile and put football above morality.”</p>
<p>For prospective students who are defending Penn State to the death as if they were an alumnus, it is foolish to put this baggage on yourself when you aren’t even a Penn State student yet. For current students and alums, it’s understable to feel their anguish and they should work to do whatever they can to salvage the university’s reputation.</p>
<p>In conclusion, tread carefully if you are a prospective student. There is a lot of unnecessary baggage you can inherit by choosing to attend Penn State. If you honestly believe that this is the school for you because of the proximity, atmosphere, academics, professors, student body, etc. then by all means, attend Penn State. Just be aware of the social stigma and consequences that may potentially come with it (not that you’re guaranteed to get any personally, but again, Penn State WILL be associated with the scandal for a considerable amount of time).</p>
<p>I am a student at Penn State and words cannot explain how frustrated and disgusted I feel by everything that has happened. First off, however, I’m not disappointed I chose this school. I chose this school because of the two colleges that garnered my attention from the start: College of Communications and College of IST. That said, when this scandal exploded, I honestly had no idea what to say as everyone watched the reputation of our school plummeted. The level of hatred and scorn we receive are unbelievable. I even got messages from “friends” out of state insulting my school and saying, “Wow, you made a horrible choice picking that school. Good Luck on wasting your money on a pedophile-loving school.”</p>
<p>Despite the “riots” and all that juicy stuff, what surprises me more is how people blame ALL of the students for this event. Sure, the tipping of the truck, the breaking of the poles, and all that stuff were poor choices on some of the students’ part, but they did not know how else to vent their frustration. Does that give a right to blame the entire school’s student body? Apparently so. I honestly feel bad for those who will judge this school for what happened, and I KNOW that people will look down upon me when they see that I have a degree from Penn State, but I don’t care. What I do know is that I am still getting quality education and I’ve met some incredible professors and friends so far. So, go ahead, don’t go to Penn State because of what happened…we don’t care! Just don’t think that everyone who goes here is some pedophile supporter because we are so much better than all of what has happened.</p>
<p>This is a very, very tough time for our school and students have been upset. It’s going to be an uphill battle from this point on, but we will use this event to make this university better than it was before.</p>
<p>Okay science fiction - let’s TRY to take this in a more positive /useful direction.</p>
<p>Recognizing the following -
the entire student body has had the rug pulled out from under them - with their entire confidence in the leadership of their university shattered
it was only a minority of students involved in the protests/riots
the MAJORITY did not protest (and many were all in favor of the dismissal of Spanier and Paterno)
the student body is already working to raise awareness and funds for victims of abuse (candlelight vigil, Blue Out movement)
the media has done a great job of covering (and encouraging) the protests/riots, but not much to cover the more positive acts being done
the PSU alumni network has already raised a couple of hundred thousand $$ for RAINN</p>
<p>What do you suggest current PSU students do? Should they transfer? Stay put?</p>
<p>My son plans on staying at PSU and is hoping to be part of the Blue Band again next year. He was embarrassed by the actions of the few and hopes to be part of the many who can try to make a difference. There are very few schools that offer his major and PSU is one of the top 2. He plans on getting the joint BS/MS degree, as even fewer schools offer an MS in his field.</p>
<p>Without question - students need to be prepared to deal with this issue in future interviews. It’s going to come up - so be ready for it. </p>
<p>But what else should/can they do? </p>
<p>For you - as an employer and as a person who will obviously have a negative bias against PSU students for many years to come - what can PSU graduates do to make a difference for you? Anything?</p>
<p>I wonder if interviewing and hiring for 2012’s graduates will decline next year? I certainly hope not. Earlier this year the WSJ had an article on the extremely high job placement success of Penn State graduates.</p>
<p>Students in Engineering, Supply Chain Mgmt. and several other well known programs will continue to do well.</p>
<p>If my student was already at Penn State I would not suggest transferring. It’s only incoming students that may be thinking twice, especially if they have other acceptances, or if they are out-of-state</p>
<p>I would like to let you know, I do NOT wish to see PSU go to the gutters. It’s a great public university, and I have no desire to see it ruined. Honest. </p>
<p>What I was pointing out is this circle the wagon mentality and defensiveness is NOT helping the PSU community at all.</p>
<p>Those of us who is watching from the outside, the real issue is NOT even the child sex abuse - this happens in different institutions too: Catholic church, boy scouts, etc. It’s horrific and unforgivable, but NOT limited to PSU.</p>
<p>What concerns all of us the “outsiders” is the underlying culture at PSU, or for that matter at any sport crazed universities, where sports trumps the academics - which should be the core mission of any educational institution, and where totally commercialized sports masquerading as “amateur” sports played by players who do not meet the academic standards of the institution corrupts the heart and soul of an academic institution. A LOT of us a totally aghast about all these sordid affairs brought on by college sports to the rest of the academic institution. I remember reading about U of Alabama “offering” charming coeds as personal hostess for each football recruit visiting the campus. I was horrified. They are pimping out their female students for their prospective college recruits. Am I the only person horrified by this symbolism? </p>
<p>Fair or not, the image of students chanting “one more game” went straight to reinforce this image of foot ball crazed university which puts anything football as of a paramount importance that trumps everything else.</p>
<p>So, candle light vigil for victims are great. However, what the PSU community REALLY need to demonstrate is their re-dedication to the core mission of the university - EDUCATION. So, if you are really serious about rehabilitating the PSU image, child abuse victim charity work is NOT going to be enough. Are you willing to say, NO FOOTBALL game for a semester? Are you willing to go that distance to show that your idol no longer has a completely control over the rest of your school? Are you willing to inconvenience yourself of not having the tailgate party for a semester? Are the majority of you - as you claim, who are not football crazed, who won’t chant “one more game” - mount a large scale peaceful rally on the day of football right next to the stadium that you want to take back the campus and return it to its original mission?</p>
<p>If you are not willing to walk the talk to demonstrate your seriousness about PSU as a premier educational institution not totally swayed by the Football craze that corrupted the heart and soul of the administration, you won’t change the minds of those of us outside.</p>
<p>^This post hits the nail on the head. The shocking aspect isn’t that there was a pedophile in the football department. It was that football had gotten so big at Penn St. even the university president was protecting the program. We’ll have to see how Penn St. plans to rectify this long-term. </p>
<p>Personally, I would shut down the football program for a year. Allow the players to transfer if they want to leave to play football elsewhere. For those who choose to remain for their education, allow them to keep their scholarships. During that year, based on the findings of the independent committee that was convened this week to investigate, clean house in the football department. Wipe the slate clean and rebuild the program back up under better leadership.</p>