Who is not attending Penn State (UP & SHC) because of the scandal?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Penn State
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<p>to those who keep saying the “one more game” chanting crowd is a vast minority, I will put this question.</p>

<p>Do you think a lone student can carry, in light of the recent event, a sign that says “abolish football program and return PSU to its original mission: education”, and NOT be harassed, intimidated, bullied, or ostracized by her peers? </p>

<p>If so, then you are truly right: the rioting students were vast majority and should not be used as a gauge for the culture there. And, in this case, the majority is not doing itself any favor by remaining silent on this issue, regardless of how many child sex abuse charity work they do. Read the example I provided earlier in this thread about silent majority of moderate muslims and how well it works for them.</p>

<p>if not, the proper estimate is, the rioting students actually UNDER-present the overall size of the student population for whom football is THE symbol of the university life at PSU. For every student who went out to chant one more year, there are five more who support that position.</p>

<p>PSU community need to SHOW us what they value in action (and charity work is NOT enough). Not complain, be defensive, and blame the onlookers who have no choice but to draw a certain conclusion based on wheat is being demonstrated. </p>

<p>PS.</p>

<p>To all of us outsiders, it was incredibly telling that the students were demanding the ouster of the president but supporting the coach, who, by all account had most power in the PSU community and did not answer for anyone and dictated his wishes on everyone so far, and thus was in a position to stop whatever was happening under his watch. What conclusion are we, the outsiders, supposed to draw from this?</p>

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<p>science fiction - you did not answer my question, but I will try to answer/address yours.</p>

<p>I am not a big sports fan, but I do appreciate the importance of sports - for the athletes, the musicians, the cheerleaders, the dance team, the flagmen, the water boys, the fans, etc. It is one of the things that brings students from all walks of life (and different parts of the campus) together. It helps to foster school spirit in a way that is hard to duplicate.</p>

<p>Now, in fairness, MOST college sports teams do all this at the bare minimalist level. And in the US, unless you’re Duke, football is the reigning king of sports. Not the way I would like it - but that’s the way it is. And it’s in those big stadiums (high school and college level) that the dance teams and bands get to perform and shine to their fullest. (Yes, I’m a Band Mom and proud of it).</p>

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<p><<are you=“” willing=“” to=“” say,=“” no=“” football=“” game=“” for=“” a=“” semester?=“”>></are></p>

<p>Well, I don’t really have a problem with this, but the bottom line is that it isn’t up to me. I have no influence. I’m a parent - not an alum, not even a PA resident. And, on a personal level, it would mess up my son - who loves being part of the Blue Band (he doesn’t really care about football either, but he loves performing for the crowd).</p>

<p>But why draw the line at football? PSU has a 4-time NCAA championship women’s volleyball team. That team was also under the control of the PSU athletic director. Maybe ALL PSU sports teams take a season/semester off. I would certainly support that. </p>

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<p><<what concerns=“” all=“” of=“” us=“” the=“” “outsiders”=“” is=“” underlying=“” culture=“” at=“” psu,=“” or=“” for=“” that=“” matter=“” any=“” sport=“” crazed=“” universities,=“” where=“” sports=“” trumps=“” academics=“” -=“” which=“” should=“” be=“” core=“” mission=“” educational=“” institution…=“”>></what></p>

<p>Just a week ago, it was announced that PSU tied with Stanford for the top graduation rate among the top 25 BCS/AP teams. </p>

<p>[Penn</a> State University Official Athletic Site - Football](<a href=“http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110211aaa.html]Penn”>http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110211aaa.html)</p>

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<p><<what concerns=“” all=“” of=“” us=“” the=“” “outsiders”=“” is=“” underlying=“” culture=“” at=“” psu…where=“” totally=“” commercialized=“” sports=“” masquerading=“” as=“” “amateur”=“” played=“” by=“” players=“” who=“” do=“” not=“” meet=“” academic=“” standards=“” institution…=“”>></what></p>

<p>I can’t speak for other areas, but I know the last 2 football players from my (former) area - a highly ranked district near Houston - both graduated in the top 10 of their classes (which averaged probably 600+ students). One was even #2. I think they met the academic standards just fine.</p>

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<p>As a final note - I am the product of 2 university academics (professors/ administrators). Academics is a huge part of our lives, and the deciding factor for my son in choosing PSU was his admittance to the honors college. No one in our family went to Penn State – DS is the first. Shoot – I’m from the south. My son had not even heard of Paterno until he got there. He is there, NOT because of the football, but because of the academics and the overall campus environment. For him, none of that has changed. </p>

<p>So I will rephrase my previous question ………<br>
For you - as an employer - what could a PSU graduate (individually) do to make you willing to hire him/her?</p>

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<p>If I were to hire somebody with PSU diploma, there is NO automatic bias on my part. However, I may become vigilant for any sign of football meathead craze. When I ask him/her about what was the most memorable college experience, I would rather not hear anything about football. In fact, I would rather not hear anything about massively football based school spirit what so ever. If the applicant goes on to tell me about his/her debate team experience, internship, research with the faculty, charity work - all this is good. </p>

<p>On this other hand, if I have a U Chicago senior as an interviewee (remember, the place where the fun goes to dies), a healthy discussion on his/her participation in intrumural sports will go a LONG way to actually make him/her him look better.</p>

<p>Fair? Of course not. Whether it’s fair or not, PSU community now has this image of football crazies and the last thing you want to do is to reinforce that stereotype.</p>

<p>Regarding you comment on a couple of PSU football player doing well in academics, good for them. However, exceptions do NOT prove the norm, and the academically sub par athletes as examples were provided for the overall college scenes, not just PSU. I remember a cheating scandal in FL somewhere (football players), and the University president said, in defense of what happened, that “some players were inappropriately helped” OMG: this is theh attitude of a university president about large scale cheating scandal among his athletes. unbelievable. This is why a lot of us are rather dismayed by the corrupting nature of the commercialized college sports. I am all for collegiate sports played by real scholar/athletes. I am against the commercialized sports masquerading as amateur sports and corrupting the heart and soul of academic institutions.</p>

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<p>LOL! I doubt you would hear that from my son. Drum corps is more likely what you would hear about. But even drum corps is music/band related and band does have a close tie-in to football. They do go somewhat hand-in-hand.</p>

<p>And I understand your point about not appearing like a football crazy. But, for many of these students, this is probably the most emotional/traumatic thing they have ever experienced. The raw emotion that comes from seeing something that you considered rock-solid just fall apart in front of you - is intense. </p>

<p>Rather than see them ignore the situation and be afraid of mentioning it, I would like to see how (in 3-4 years) these students have taken this experience and learned from it. Personally (as someone who used to work with corporate recruiters), I would like hear a student say “Hey, I was one of those obnoxious kids shouting ‘one more game,’ but since that time I’ve realized…….” That shows honesty plus maturity and growth, which is what the college years are supposed to be about.</p>

<p>As all kids this age, mine are old enough to remember the tragedy of 9/11. But mine experienced it in Egypt, where they had good friends who were Muslim. Then they watched, from 10 times zones away, as their hometown was destroyed in Katrina. Finally, this past year, they watched the revolutionary chaos in Cairo – a place they lived for many years and loved dearly. Those were all learning experiences, and I hope that this Penn State tragedy will also be a learning experience for everyone.</p>

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<p>There’s nothing wrong with liking football…and enjoying the games. My PSU son looks forward to Game Day each week. Just like many college students all over the country. But - that doesn’t mean he’s football crazed. My son is there to study, placing his academics first. He’s an Aerospace Engineering major who has made it on the Dean’s List each semester he’s been there. He’s involved in multiple clubs, Thon, and has many other interests. But honestly, he would be crushed if football was taken from Penn State. Or any of the other sporting events. He enjoys going - it’s how he unwinds - and he honestly simply just enjoys sports. He has fun there - is that so wrong? Why should the athletes and fans have this taken away? Should we ban sports at every college? Because quite frankly, there are many other universities that also live for “GameDay”. Not every Penn State student is a crazed football fan - even if they do really enjoy going to the games!</p>

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<p>Penn State needs to make the tough decision here. And that’s to suspend football operations until the investigation is complete and until we can clean house. Yes, there are plenty of other colleges where football is big, maybe even too big. But, this is the only college so far where football has gotten in the way of reporting child molestation. Penn State needs to make a statement that it is now ready to make the tough choice, even if that means not having football or a year or two until it can develop a system to make sure this never happens again. There’s no need to suspend the other sports because this wouldn’t have happened in volleyball or field hockey. This was a case of football becoming too big. PSU needs to decide if it wants to be Penn State or State Pen.</p>

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<p>nothing wrong enjoying football. However, given what was tolerated to protect it all these years, would it be too much to sacrifice ONE semester of football to reaffirm what PSU’s core mission is? If the answer is, "yes it is. we can’t possibly live without a few months of football’, then it’s clear what PSU is all about, and why students rioted chanting one more game.</p>

<p>I posited this question earlier:</p>

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<p>The answer was given:</p>

<p>[At</a> Penn State’s stadium, profanity, scorn greet one father’s protest - Washington Times](<a href=“http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/12/penn-state-stadium-profanity-scorn-joe-paterno/?page=1]At”>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/12/penn-state-stadium-profanity-scorn-joe-paterno/?page=1)</p>

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<p>As long as this continues on the part of the students, PSU’s reputation will not be restored. If most people really feel that, again, this is just a few bad apples, show it in action. Loudly condemn these kids. Hold a rally for PSU’s academic mission. SHow us that you are not all football crazed idiots who behave despicably, like this.</p>

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<p>Maybe I look at it in a different way. I’ve spent my career investigating child sexual abuse cases. While our job is to protect children, we work very hard not to punish the innocent. Case in point - with an in-home sexual abuse case, we try not to remove the children from the home. Instead whenever possible, we remove the perpetrator. They are the one who committed the crime - why punish the other children in the home. You need to get rid of (and quickly) all those involved. And then you start the work to recover and heal. You don’t punish those not involved. It is not therapeutic and doesn’t do anything to aid in recovery. What you do is provide resources to make sure it never happens again. You educate, grow and become stronger as a unit.</p>

<p>Going back to football - I have a hard time seeing how punishing students, athletes, cheerleaders/band members, hotels/restaurants, stores, and those that attend games regularly is warranted. I truly hear your point - but education, awareness and intervention goes a long way. There’s no need to punish the innocent.</p>

<p>This is a wake up call for football programs everywhere. It’s time to learn from mistakes and change priorities everywhere - punishing those not involved doesn’t help the process go any quicker.</p>

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<p>You have a very valid point.</p>

<p>I was speaking as a “PR manager” and putting a proposal on the most dramatic way to start the image rehabilitation for PSU. All the good changes they can make will take a very long time to percolate through and through.</p>

<p>However, if PSU wants to jump start and garner a lot of press attention to rehabilitate its image, it will take some really strong position like “a semester of no football”. It will immediately be covered by major media. It will get a lot of airwaves. It will make people stop and notice. </p>

<p>If I remember correctly, when Tylenol tampering was discovered, though it was pretty clear in the minds of Johnson & Johnson that the tampering came from a batch from a very specific geographical confine, they instituted a swift nation wide recall at a great expense to the company - way more than what was actually necessary but done anyway. They were highly praised and they actually came out with more consumer support than before.</p>

<p>I think a lot of PSU community members still do not get it - that is, they don’t seem to really understand how truly bad this looks to anybody outside of the Happy Valley, or anybody who does not have someone close in the Happy Valley. PSU needs to something really drastic to start the image rehabilitation process, not just run of the mill candle light vigils and charity fund raising. A dire disaster requires an out of the box, radical crisis management response.</p>

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<p>Science fiction - just saw your response. Yes, there are bad apples. Bad apples are at every school - but people (as you) choose to focus on those small number of students. Most PSU students demonstrate DAILY their excellence in academics, research, participation in hundreds of clubs, millions and millions of dollars raised with Thon, etc. You choose to continue to only see what you want to see and that is fine. But I know that my son has worked amazingly hard to get to where he is. (As have so many other PSU kids) It’s sad that people out there choose to remain so narrow-minded regarding this situation. They’re missing out of seeing some truly amazing things our kids are doing! I am very proud of my son and am saddened that there are people out there that apparently think less of him despite the fact that he didn’t do anything wrong. That is so wrong.</p>

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<p>The problem is that we don’t know who all of the perpetrators are. Not until the investigation is complete, which could take months or years. Even then, we still don’t have a system in place to make sure this doesn’t happen again.</p>

<p>The candlelight vigil is nice. But, it speaks nothing to how SYSTEMATICALLY Penn State plans to proceed to make sure this never repeats itself. That is something that the Penn State administration needs to come up with. Until then, shut down football for a semester. The students and cheerleaders will survive.</p>

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<p>This is exactly why the Penn St. administration must act. It needs to preserve the value of its degree and it needs to show that this is an academic, not a football school. What’s being called into question isn’t necessarily the integrity of the students (although they haven’t exactly done themselves any favors this week) but rather the integrity of the school. That’s something a candlelight vigil will not change. There needs to be systems changes made, beginning with the restructuring of the football program.</p>

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<p>Well I think this school is great and the only reason I would not go there is if they found out that SHC was a hox or something, which is very unlikely. Or if I get rej of-course. But I have heard that there are going to be some deep cuts. Remark that Penn State is one of the only schools to have sent a gates scholar to chamb. I guess we will hear the end of it by the end of the year and that is when we can make real decisions.</p>

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<p>hear, hear. This is exactly what I have been saying. PSU cannot have it both ways. The dire situation they are in now does not allow that, if PSU really wants to rehabilitate its image. Those who keep talking about “this is not fair for innocent students”. Yeah. It ain’t fair. But we are talking about the best, speediest, and gustiest way to start refreshing PSU’s image. If they do not want to do anything drastic that ruffles the feather of some students who won’t sacrifice a single semester’s worth of football and tail gate parties, well they will have to work decades to restore their tattered reputation.</p>

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<p>I hear your points - I don’t agree. We can agree to disagree and that is ok. Please just be careful with judgemental comments against all PSU students. This has been an emotionally difficult week not just for the students, but for parents as well. </p>

<p>Wishing you the best.</p>

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<p>I wish Penn st. students the best. I hope the school acts in their best interest.</p>

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<p>Thanks - and I agree!!</p>

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<p>yes. we can agree to disagree respectfully. I have nothing against the majority of Penn State students. I just think it’s a shame that the silent majority allows the minority of students to define PSU’s image for the outsider by not voicing their values clearly, unequivocally, and forcefully. </p>

<p>Good luck. this is my last post on this subject matter.</p>

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<p><<i just="" think="" it’s="" a="" shame="" that="" the="" silent="" majority="" allows="" minority="" of="" students="" to="" define="" psu’s="" image="" for="" outsider="" by="" not="" voicing="" their="" values="" clearly,="" unequivocally,="" and="" forcefully.="">></i></p><i just="" think="" it’s="" a="" shame="" that="" the="" silent="" majority="" allows="" minority="" of="" students="" to="" define="" psu’s="" image="" for="" outsider="" by="" not="" voicing="" their="" values="" clearly,="" unequivocally,="" and="" forcefully.="">

<p>I know you said it’s your last post on this matter, but I said that earlier and here I am.</p>

<p>If you seriously think the majority of students that didn’t destructively riot (all but maybe 50 of 40,000+) are “silent” then you’ve been on media blackout. Current students (and parents of current students) have loudly voiced their opinions on this forum, immediately after the “riot” on nationally-televised interviews with CNN and such, at the candlelight vigil, the game earlier today, etc.</p>
</i>

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<p>Most PSU students show their values clearly, unequivocally and forcefully on a daily basis (as I mentioned above - clubs, fundraisers, Thon, volunteering, etc). They are not silent - some just don’t “hear” them because choose not to look and listen.</p>

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<p>I like your thinking. As much as it was necessary to fire JoePa, it’s not enough. For example, the new acting head coach was also part of the culture which produced this monstrosity. Fortunately for him, he wasn’t in the chain of command through which the rape was reported, but I would bet everything I own that he too knew that “something was wrong with Jerry”. Everyone did. </p>

<p>So how about this, as a compromise which cleans house but doesn’t punish players, band members, and cheer/dance:</p>

<p>Replace every staffer in the program. Every last employee, every last volunteer, from the AD right down to the lowliest graduate assistant. Purge the program of the cancer which has claimed so many victims.</p>