@SugarlessCandy Are you Bernie Sanders? Why would any family pay for college if anyone whose parents didn’t want to pay can get the govt. to pay? Your proposal would mean the govt funds near 100% of all college costs in the country and then supplies jobs for near every college grad. I think that might be a tad unrealistic.
SugarlessCandy doesn’t realize that plans like his/hers existed – in communist countries.
Students attended universities for “free” but then repaid the nation’s cost of their higher education by working for little or no money in government-owned entities, often doing farming work, over the summer. Of course having to pay off your “free” education also meant students couldn’t leave the country for many years… at least that was the government line.
Other countries manage to have very low to no tuition and you don’t have to work on a farm afterwards… they’ve just decided that it’s good for society to be educated and not in debt.
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Others either have to make their parents pay and live poorly or say goodbye to their dream colleges. <<
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who says everyone has the right to go to their dream college? 95% of Stanford applicants won’t get to go to their dream college b/c their acceptance rate is 5%. that’s life and they have to learn to deal with it.
What if the “government” doesn’t need the skills of the student coming out of college - or doesn’t need as many of them that are getting that degree? But private industry DOES need the number that are coming out of college. What do you do then? It seems like this concept would require the government to determine their needs for different skill sets/majors many years in the future and then universities would only allow that many students to enroll in that major? I mean how else would you balance demand and supply from a government standpoint?
Not to mention that we’re currently embarking on a new path that is supposedly going to dramatically shrink the federal work force…
@romanigypsyeyes – yes, but those countries are bigly bad. Just look at what’s going on in Sweden.
Sugarless- yes, it’s sad and aggravating for kids whose parents can afford to pay- but choose not to pay- to help them go to college.
Why should the rest of society be punished for the legal decisions and actions made by others? Why should college and/or the government subsidize the education for Bill Gates’ children just because a couple of families have decided that they don’t want to pay for their own kid?
Kids who do not qualify for need based aid and whose parents will not pay for college have options. They can get a job with tuition benefits- and take a course a semester while working full time- until they finish. They can join the military and use their benefits once they are out to pay tuition. They can try to get ROTC, get admitted to one of the academies with free tuition. They can work fulltime and start at an online college or community college while living at home to save money.
Most students in countries with “free” college tuition do NOT live in dorms or apartments by themselves. They live at home and take the bus to class.
The kids you are talking about are already on second or third base in life. If their families are affluent enough not to qualify for aid, these are kids who grew up in homes with books, probably did some traveling or have been to the theater, concerts, had disposable cash for after school activities, never had to choose between seeing the dentist or paying for heat that month. As a society, it is hard to muster sympathy for people with an affluent lifestyle who don’t prioritize education- it might be short-sighted, but it’s perfectly legal.
I know one family whose kid is commuting to the local non-flagship state u nearby. One of the parents told me that between owning a vacation property and the family ski vacation in Colorado every year, they just weren’t as affluent as they looked “on paper”. Their money, their choice. The kid will be fine- he got into many more expensive/prestigious colleges, but this was the cheapest and so that’s where he goes.
I’ve never been skiing. I hear it’s fun. I can’t imagine that any form of recreation is more important than my kids education, but that’s me. I paid their college bills without complaining, and have no regrets.
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As a society, it is hard to muster sympathy for people with an affluent lifestyle who don't prioritize education- it might be short-sighted, but it's perfectly legal. <<
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agree. is there some sort of sudden epidemic of wealthy, excellent students whose parents won’t pay for college?
it seems to me there are far far more excellent student whose families CANNOT pay. i think it is appropriate for society to help them out as opposed to families who CAN pay but choose not to.
anyway, the rich kid whose parents pull the plug is in the same boat as the low or middle income kid. time to check the yolasite list of auto merit schools.
Wien- OP’s post 14-
“However, would it be discounted for a higher stat student who can add same or even more value but can’t meet need criteria as parents have higher income though they are not willing or able to pay? For that student forced servitude of few years can be a life saver, giving him one chance to go to school that he wants to attend, can get accepted to, can add value to but can’t afford on his own?”
I don’t know if this is an epidemic of high income folks who are not willing to pay. But certainly not a problem worth upending our educational system to address IMHO.
i can’t really figure out what post 14 is trying to say. maybe your brain is sharper than mine at this point in the day.
anyway, we like millions of others are chasing big merit aid. i don’t know what’s preventing smart rich kids from doing the same. at least we were upfront about our $$$ situation. i can’t imagine pulling the rug out from under your kid tjhis late in the game. that’s just cruel.
I think OP is claiming that an affluent, high stat student should be getting aid at a need only school due to his/her parents being unwilling to pay.
And I am sympathetic-- but don’t find the OP’s argument compelling as a matter of practice or public policy.
Wien- agree that being upfront with your kids is the way to go! Good luck to you guys!!!
every school that meets full need can easily replace a rich student whose parents will not pay, with an equally qualified one whose parents will.
part of me feels bad for rich kids in this situation, but then i think about the advantages and opportunities they have likely enjoyed their whole lives, and then i don’t feel so bad for them anymore.
I suspect OP has a high stats kid who won’t be getting need based aid and hopes to get into single digit admission schools that don’t offer merit. Making too much to qualify for need based aid is a good problem to have. The solution is to set your sights on schools with higher admission rates that offer guaranteed merit. For people who keep track of those sort of things, that means going further down the US News ranking list.
and that’s the real issue. you have kids who would rather attempt suicide or attend community college in protest, rather than suffer the indignity of attending Nebraska or Alabama instead of Cornell.
I’m sorry,I can’t feel sorry for somebody who got into Williams, but went to a CC in protest. Obviously that student had the chops to get great merit from other schools, and work within the family budget but chose not to. Maybe that student wasn’t so smart after all.
@CottonTales
my reaction as well. someone who responds to not getting their way in such a petulant immature manner that actually hurts themselves is demonstrating that they do not belong at Williams
@cobrat I graduated from undergrad in 1973, and got my masters in 1976. While college was far less expensive, I would NOT say I “had it easier”.
My parents were unable to financially help me with college…at all. I paid for it all myself. I sometimes worked three jobs while also attending classes full time at my public university. I did have somemgrants, and took federal,loans as well. My were forgiven for working in a priority school district for five years. Believe me…I earned that forgiveness.
For grad school, I followed the money. I wanted to go to Northwestern but couldn’t because it just cost too much. I went to Western Illinois University where I had an assistantship, tuition remission and stipend. It was just as accredited in my field as NU.
Sure…costs have escalated and really…it’s much harder to work ones way through college. But fact is…some students still do so. They just can’t do it on the four year plan.
The OP appears to have an issue with how financial aid is determined, awarded, etc. I’m really not clear what the actual concern or question is. But I’ll say…it is what it is. Students and families need to deal with what IS and not wish for what isn’t.
Interesting percpectives and though I didn’t change my mind, I feel significantly enlightened on this topic.
Why cannot you get a loan that your kid will promise to pay back? This will be your system in action. The rest of us do not have to be involved in how your family pays for Cornell.
I am not saying that this is a wise idea but I know families who have done it.
@Tanbiko Please let me rephrase it. Students have no control over financial decisions of their parents, if parents aren’t willing to co-sign then there is nothing students can do. Given uncertainty of the economy/ social security/Medicare/Medicaid/401K, its a risky move so we can’t blame those parents without knowing their circumstances.
If rest of us don’t have to get involved in how his family pays then how come we have to get involved into helping financial aid kid’s business if his family can’t pay? All children are equal, we can’t discriminate against him because he was born into that family. Humans don’t control what race, body, religion, financial status etc they get at birth.