Who polices the information high schools put on their Naviance site?

Parents Corner
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<p>Here's my question: Can a high school put incorrect (ie:inflated) numbers of acceptances to prestigious schools to make it look like it has had more success getting kids into top schools? If one asks the high school counseling office who the students were who purportedly got in they only have to cite privacy laws and decline to answer, is it the perfect crime? Does this even matter, should we care if they are inflating?</p>

<p>I have only one piece of anectotal evidence that this occurred at one of two highly competitive local high schools in the area where I live, but it is definitely conclusive. </p>

<p>There are two public high schools in my area that have +/-2000 students each. My kid went to one of them graduating in 2011. There is a healthy rivalry of all things between these two schools as you can imagine. My son's school is perceived as the more urban school, less affluent school but they always have a nice number of top 20 school admits, maybe 10-15 out of a class of 450. The other school is more suburban, wealthier, much better in sports and generally has 25-30 admits in the top 10 schools (or so I thought, lol).</p>

<p>If you have read this far, you are very patient, or very interested, I apologize for taking so long to lay the ground work for this point.</p>

<p>The year my son graduated he was an EA admit to Yale. He got access to a portal at Yale that told him how many other admits in his state there were, and their geographic location (not names) in relation to him. Literally it said "1 student 54.88 miles from you", "1 student 67.943 miles from you", etc,etc. I assume they must use some map program that calculates distance based on the kids' addresses. This list got updated in February (with likelies) and again at the beginning of April with the regular admits. Several kids from my son's high school ended up getting into Yale and from this portal site and the geographic data, (plus the fact that everyone at school talks about this stuff), they were easily identified on the admitted students web site. </p>

<p>So- here's the rub. The data on the portal showed the rival high school didn't get any kids into Yale. However, on their Naviance web site for the class of 2011, suddenly around October of last year, they show 4 admits to Yale and 1 attending for the class of 2011. It is simply not true. My son would know if a kid from that school was in his class. There are only 6 kids there from the entire state we live in who are in the class of 2015. Also he is very good friends with some of the kids at the rival high school and none of them know anyone who a) got into Yale or b) is attending Yale. And it is a big enough deal that kids in that school would know.</p>

<p>So that is just one piece of information that I feel like I personally have enough proof on to refute this school's one claim. And frankly I don't know if it really matters that much in this one instance. I don't know that there is any harm done, except that parents who are deciding which school to send their kid to think maybe they have a better chance at college acceptance success with this high school. </p>

<p>I suspect it's mostly a pride issue with the counseling office, to have 24 kids apply and none get in was probably kind of a sting, so maybe they just wanted to make it look better than it was? (BTW, I was able to access all this information by entering the school's Naviance site as a guest, with a guest password I got from the counseling office.) </p>

<p>I guess I'm wondering on a broader scale- if it's possible for any high school across the country to input whatever data into Naviance they think makes them look like they have more successes without any independent verification of the data- is this a loophole that needs to be closed? </p>

<p>Does it matter?</p>

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<p>I don’t know what it would accomplish. Naviance is supposedly private, even if accessible to guests, not something the school publicizes. So I’m not sure how it would help the school’s reputation.</p>

<p>It’s my understanding that Naviance data is completely based on the school’s input, the students, the GC, whatever. So there can definitely be errors.</p>

<p>S was good about using it to report where he applied and where he gotin and didn’t, but I am not sure if he had not done that, that the GC would have gone in and done it. Even if a kid lied or the GC did, what’s the point? You’re only making the tool less useful without any real upside.</p>

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<p>Not every kid blabs every admission they receive. I can tell you that my D2 feels quite private about this info, and plans to apply to some highly ranked schools. Some of her friends have neither the academic nor financial wherewithal for those colleges, and she is sensitive to that fact. She probably will NOT tell anyone except the GC about her admissions except where she decides to attend.</p>

<p>Could be that someone got off the waitlist for the one attending… or that someone was admitted, but deferred for a year (so is actually in the class behind him, but was admitted from the class of 2011). What are there, about 1,300 freshman in a Yale class? Your son probably does NOT know them all. Heck, the kid could have recently moved to your state, and might tell people he is from his old state (I did that for about 10 years after moving to my current location!).</p>

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<p>I think if your high school counselors are that unethical your community has bigger problems than Naviance stats.</p>

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<p>^^Yes agree Emerald. Not to mention it doesn’t really benefit anyone (to put in erroneous information) since Naviance isn’t a national clearing house and finally why would it even matter what some other high school is doing or what some other high schools graduates are doing?</p>

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<p>I would also add that you shouldn’t immediately ascribe something to a conspiracy that could be explained by mere incompetence. Naviance can get totally screwed up if the person inputting the data doesn’t know what he or she is doing.</p>

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<p>From what you share about the competing school, it does not seem that many make their decisions based on the success in getting into Yale or not. </p>

<p>The reality is that what appears to be so incredibly important in the transition between high school and college becomes trivial by the sophomore year. The only important element <em>to you</em> should be that your own child made it to Yale. You will find out that most people would not care one way or the other which high school and college you chiild attended or attends. </p>

<p>I hope you do not read this as a lecture. I am merely trying to share that it helps to let the details of rankings of high school students and rankings of prestigious schools gather dust as soon as the college days start. In fact, talking about one’s prestigious college requires a lot more tact than one expects, as you spend more time almost “excusing” the prestige rather than basking into it, especially when trying to avoid … negative judgments.</p>

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<p>I know there are mistakes (unintentional) on our school’s Naviance for my son. He only took the SATs once. Did much better on ACT and submitted those, but on Naviance it has his acceptance/rejection results marked using the SAT, so not entirely accurate with respect to what scores were considered by the universities.</p>

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<p>Have you considered the possibility that the information on the Yale site is not correct? Who puts that data into the system? Is it self-reported by the kids? Maybe there are zip code issues with kids from the other school? I know our “official” zip code is for another town and on a mapping site like that it could put our town 30 miles away.</p>

<p>At our high school, the kids enter which schools they apply to and update their own acceptances, etc. For select schools like Yale, however, all info is blocked from view because of privacy issues. I’m also curious how you got into the Naviance system at another school?</p>

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<p>Many schools offer guest access to their Naviance data. I’m using guest access right now to look at stats because S graduated last year and D won’t get her own login until the spring.</p>

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<p>It only matters where there is competition through open enrollment, or for private schools, for top students in the area, as is the case in our community.</p>

<p>On this little scale it makes no difference, on a much larger scale (say in the case of an entire school district, or in highly prestigious private schools), it might, so that’s why I brought it up. I just asked a rhetorical question and I must have used a tone that incited some annoyance with some of you. I apologize.</p>

<p>I was simply wondering if high schools can use incorrect data (either intentionally or inadvertently) and if that’s okay, particularly for the parents and students who rely on that data to make decisions on where to apply. </p>

<p>A recent post about Naviance on this forum is what jogged my memory about this situation, and I thought I’d share my one tiny anecdote about it. I am somewhat taken aback by the hostility I am feeling here. My specific example seems to have distracted from the point of my post.</p>

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<p>Don’t worry, yalemom–all discussions here are like this, more or less.</p>

<p>It seems to me that the biggest problem with this would be that it might mislead students in that particular school–making them think they had a better chance at certain selective schools than they really do. That would be a foolish thing for the school to do, and I can’t really see the benefit. That’s why I would have to wonder whether the numbers are just messed up in some way–i.e., those figures weren’t really for Yale, or were for a different year, or perhaps they’re based on what the students say and the school doesn’t check them.</p>

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<p>Thanks Hunt, </p>

<p>As for motive I can only speak to our area, but here, the public schools who get the most students into top schools have a big incentive to publicize it. There are a finite number of high achieving kids in any area. The teachers like them in their classes. There are less discipline issues. The more high achieving kids at a school the more AP/IB classes they can offer. The higher the average ACT and SAT scores are, the more students like them come to the school each year. The better colleges they get into increases and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. </p>

<p>In our area schools compete via open enrollment. If one of these two high schools I mentioned above begins to look more desirable to high achieving students because of the type and number of colleges the kids are getting into they may start attracting the lion’s share of high achieving kids in our area. Over the course of a few years, the other school loses more of these students and subsequently the number of AP/IB classes they are able to offer and possibly lose teachers who enjoy teaching these classes. That is the potential incentive I see.</p>

<p>It would have to be done on a large, intentional scale and done over multiple years to truly have any effect, but the fact that it is possible to post incorrect data on Naviance without any double checking of facts is interesting.</p>

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<p>I’d think Naviance, technically private to current students, would be a poor way to publicize admissions to competitive schools.</p>

<p>Our HS lists acceptances in our local newspaper (no names). They have a page on their web site for it as well. Those would be better ways to do it IMO.</p>

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<p>I’d think it more likely that a guidance counselor entered the wrong college code when entering the acceptances on Naviance.</p>

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<p>“That is the potential incentive I see.”</p>

<p>Yeah, but even if external actors could get into Naviance, misleading your own students about their likelihood of getting into Yale is going to be detrimental to next year’s numbers. You’re shooting yourself in the foot.</p>

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<p>College acceptances mean much less than college matriculations. The fact that the top 3 students in the class pulled in a total of 15 Ivy acceptances doesn’t mean much for the number 5 or 10 student. Parents I know (and I live smack dab in the middle of Prepschoolville) compare 5 year matriculation lists, which the schools readily publish.</p>

<p>Are you sure the other school is reporting Naviance stats for only one year? My kids’ schools report over a multi-year period, in part to protect the privacy of individual students. I’m surprised the school would post information for a single attending student. If only one student got into Yale and his or her stats are on Naviance he or she would be readily identifiable and that could open a nasty can of worms (“Look, Jamal got into Yale with 2100 SATs and Elizabeth got rejected with a 2250.”)</p>

<p>Naviance is meant as an internal tool to help current student assess their chances. As other posters noted, it does no good for the school to lie, as they’re only hurting the chances of their current students and thus imperiling their real matriculation stats.</p>

<p>Naviance is an imperfect tool and relies on humans to input information. My DS is applying primarily to score optional schools and so hasn’t bothered to study for the SAT and may not take it at all. What shows up on Naviance right now is an extrapolation of his PSAT scores, and he was sick on the day of PSATs. While the information is accurate it is misleading. It won’t show his hook and it will indicate horrible scores, scores colleges will never see, so as a single data point it won’t be terribly useful.</p>

<p>I get the sense that this is bothering you because deep down you feel the other school is trying to steal your child’s or your school’s thunder. As other posters said none of this will matter in a year or two. As someone with an Ivy grad degree I can tell you no one but my mother cares where I went to school!</p>

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<p>Are you sure the other school is reporting Naviance stats for only one year? My kids’ schools report over a multi-year period, in part to protect the privacy of individual students. I’m surprised the school would post information for a single attending student. If only one student got into Yale and his or her stats are on Naviance he or she would be readily identifiable and that could open a nasty can of worms (“Look, Jamal got into Yale with 2100 SATs and Elizabeth got rejected with a 2250.”)</p>

<p>Our local high school did this as well, don’t remember if it was three or five years that was used, but enough data to be meaningful.
If the school only recently started using Naviance however of course that wouldn’t be possible.</p>

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<p>Yes, both schools post in the format of
Graduating year: </p>

<h1>applied:</h1>

<h1>accepted:</h1>

<h1>attending:</h1>

<p>The past 7 years of data are listed, by each year.</p>

<p>I realize that I sound like I have a conspiracy theory streak (with an apparent Ivy league fetish for some of you). To truly get to the root of my concern it comes down to a fear that the scales between these two excellent schools may tip in favor of the other one. Demographically our school struggles and it needs all the good publicity it can get, and it does get plenty. </p>

<p>Naviance is one piece of a school’s narrative about what kind of school it is. There are many other pieces as well. But it is a piece that looks very official because of all the numbers and the many years of data. Numbers and data tend to carry a lot of weight with people. The school in question uses Naviance data in a power point slide on Open House nights (evening programs for 8th grade parents and students trying to decide where to attend the following year). It does get used often in a public forum.</p>

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<p>I had to go read the posts above to find that purported hostility. I am not sure what the OP expected from posting THAT question about the impact of Naviance on the competing school. The final words were “Does it matter?” and I think some of us tried to answer with a decisive … No, not in the least. But, heck, we could be wrong. It might matter in that precise community. </p>

<p>Perhaps, just as in many conversations about uber-elite schools, it is better to nod in agreement and refrain to tell what we really think.</p>