<p>Hi everyone, </p>
<p>I've been trying to decide between choosing HPME and a regular undergrad education. I was looking through the HPME thread, and noticed that there were several people who turned down HPME for an ivy such as HYPS. If you have turned down HPME, could you please mention your reasons for doing so, and which college/university you'll be attending instead? </p>
<p>Thanks so much!
Conflicted</p>
<p>hey everyone.... so I guess there's not a lot of people wavering from HPME. I think however, I'm leaning towards Princeton.</p>
<p>What are your reasons for choosing Princeton over HPME?</p>
<p>I honestly think it'd be a DUMB move to reject HPME. </p>
<p>You get an accelerated path to medical school, a great undergraduate education, and a great medical school.</p>
<p>Assuming you perform above the requirements, you are guaranteed a spot in their medical school. You don't have to put up with the stress of applying and taking the MCAT, and you won't have any uncertainty.</p>
<p>Johnnytremain: First off, everyone is given their own personal opinion, and I respect yours. I think some people may see my decision as "dumb" because I'm giving up an opportunity to go to Feinberg Medical school. But in my defense, I really don't think it is. If I were to go to HPME, I would choose the 8 year route because I don't want to accelerate my undergrad years. I want to enjoy college. Also I don't think Northwestern is where I would be the happiest. In no way do I think I could thrive if every moment I would be regretting my decision and questioning myself--asking myself if I could have done better after going to Princeton.</p>
<p>Secondly, the MCAT is only one test in a profession in which there are many tests, and it is relatively easier compared to the other ones. After talking to many different current, and graduated medical students and doctors, one person's words really struck me. He said, "Like it not, the MCAT is just one test in a career filled with important tests. It isn't even the most important test, just one of the first. If this is going to be a determinative factor in your decision process, you likely are on a bad path for you." I really agree with this professional's words--if the MCAT plays such a large role in your decision, then I don't believe medicine is the field for you. You shouldn't let the fear of standardized testing deter you from choosing the best undergraduate education. However "best" is all dependent on the perspective, eh?</p>
<p>Ultimately though, if I go to Princeton, and I don't get into Feinberg or any other school better than that (if I'm going on rankings, which I am NOT because rankings are very arbitrary) then I think I would be satisfied with having leapt, and fallen whereas if I went into HPME, I would torture myself with the speculation of what would have happened had I chosen Princeton over HPME.</p>
<p>its not our choice dude.
pick one</p>
<p>here are your options</p>
<ol>
<li><p>go to princeton, spend 8 years through med school. (also youd have a chance at maybe a BETTER school than feinberg, dont forget that part) . you wouldnt lose the whole college experience. Its ****ing princeton. And that will be your college transcript for the rest of your life if you decide to change your major (which like 75% of undergrads will do). i completely made up that statistic, but a lot of them do.</p></li>
<li><p>go to northwestern - a truly fantastic school, spend 6 years through med school. take it a little easier with not having to worry as greatly about getting a 3.7 gpa and fantastic mcats score to get into a good med school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>personally id go with princeton.</p>
<p>based on your reasons, Conflicted, I think you are making a solid choice.</p>
<p>Conflicted, </p>
<p>Keep in mind that you can stay at NU undergraduate for 4 years, if you choose. That is allowed under the terms of the HPME program.</p>
<p>Good luck with this difficult decision. Don't be in a hurry to decide.</p>
<p>Conflicted, </p>
<p>You seem to have made up your mind. As much as it sucks to hear this, there isn't anything most (and I mean about half) of the people in this board will say to encourage you. I personally would take HPME, but I respect your decision, and I think your best choice IS to attend Princeton because of how much you defended it in your last post. Go to princeton, especially since you would rather leap and fall then be in HPME.</p>
<p>Conflicted, I think you're doing the right thing. You will do great in Princeton! I'm sure you'll be able to get into HMS and other great schools in due time. In a way, many people in BA/MD programs are insecure. Undergrad is time to enjoy; you'll definitely have fun at Princeton. Don't take any of the posters negativity (though they mean well). Life is short, enjoy!</p>
<p>you have solid reasons to go to Princeton, and I support your decision. Here's a perspective from a doctor, taken from these message boards last year (yeah, I'm a nerd and saved it!)</p>
<p>I have read these posts for months. I am a dad whose S is now in the same predicament. Excellent college vs 7 year med program. Fortunately, I am also a physician who had his own experience with med school admissions (although 27 years ago) and has also watched s's and d's of friends go through the pre med mill. Let me try to shed some light on your dilemma.
First... There are many excellent undergraduate institutions that send many of their premeds to medical school. The rates of admissions to medical school are reported during their on campus Q and A sessions and occassionally on their websites. Overall acceptance to medical school is hovering around 50%. This is a grossly overestimated number since it doesn't come close to accounting for those students that get "weeded out" in freshman bio, calculus, or if they get that far, organic chemistry. I know personally 3 very successful lawyers my age that all started college as premeds. I know innumerable friends of my daughter who are now in law school or business school as a result of their failed attempts to do well in pre med at college. These are students that never registered to EVEN APPLY to medical school. They all were excellent students in high school with high expectations and dreams of a career in medicine. These students went to Duke, Emory, Michigan, etc., their life long aspirations and expectations were dashed in less than one year at their "dream" school.
Second... There is this popular misconception that the combined programs won't afford you the same opportunities for residencies as a "better" medical school and that by attending a great and venerable institution like Duke or MITor Princeton, you may be afforded the opportunity if you do well, to attend Harvard, JHU, Wash U or Stanford Medical School. Again, everyone falls prey to the same faulty logic. I think you are all better served to just to buy a lottery ticket and pray. Medical school admissions is a crapshoot. Go to MDapplicants.com and look at the schools individuals are going to. In the end, so many thingsw will impact your eventual decision. I personally passed up a top 3 medical school to attend a school that was near my girlfriend (who is now my wife). I made the right decision and it hasn't effected my ability to have a very successful practice. In the end no matter where you go for med school, the best residencies go to the best students in each class, and that can be done at BU, and GWU as easily as Wash U. As a physician and head of a large subspecialty group, I can tell you that the last thing I look at when I scan a candidates CV is the college and medical school from which they came. I look at their fellowship and go backward from there. If you are at the top of your med school class, you will get the good residency, ditto for fellowship.
Third...Having the ivy league college experience is worth passing up a guaranteed med program. If you ask pre meds at any quality school in the country, they will all tell you that they have a much different experience than everyone else. While everyone is soaking in the culture and intellectual experiences of the diverse, eclectic environment that is called ivy league, the pre meds are studying and stressed out. When my D told me about the premed students taking sleeping bags to the library, I was amazed. If that is going to be your competition for a med school spot, then you will be very embarrassed when you will need to rationalize to yourself why medicine was really not for you, while always knowing that you succumbed to the pressure and the competition and got eliminated from contention like many before you. You will wish you never turned down that guaranteed spot to a good but not great med school.
Fourth....nothing in life is guaranteed. The med school spot is about as close as you can get to a guaranteed MD. No one knows what may happen to you or your family or loved ones in the next four years that may preclude you from realizing your dream of a medical career. The illness of a loved one or even a bad case of mono could be enough to taint a semester's grades. The med school adcoms won't care.
Finally... It all comes down to passion. If your passion is to be a doctor, then to me there is no choice. Others have gone to foreign medical schools, learned foreign languages and waited to reapply year after year to fulfill their dreams of medicine. If a medical career is just a passing fancy of yours or just 'it seems like a good idea for now', then by all means go to the ivy and test the waters. There is no paucity of students who will jump into your spot no matter what hoops they have to jump through to get there.</p>
<p>Well, I've followed this twisted ego-padding discussion of "HPME vs Ivy" and I suppose I'll make one contribution.</p>
<p>I respect your decision, conflicted, and by talking with you through AIM, I know where you're coming from. What I do not respect, perhaps not from you but from other posters around here, is the notion that an Ivy League is somehow unqualifiably "better" than HPME. I don't respect the view that people in HPME are somehow insecure, misguided, and hopelessly locked in their situation with no chance of enjoying their undergraduate life. And I do not respect the belief that everybody in HPME would be regretting their decision, or want the easy way out, or are scared of standardized tests. </p>
<p>HPMEs, in general, are just as smart and motivated as you are. Not smartER, not MORE motivated. And certainly not less.</p>
<p>In short, I respect anybody's decision to attend a particular program or institution, but not at the expense of denigrating the choices you gave up.</p>
<p>Neo: Thank you for not absolutely insulting my choice and my intelligence, but actually trying to understand my perspective. </p>
<p>As to the ego-padding, I didn't mean for this thread to be an ego boost in any way shape or form, however if it appears to be that way then I am sorry. I simply wanted to talk out the pros and cons of the different choices of not only myself, but others in similar situations in which they decide between a BA/MD program and ANY undergrad institution.</p>
<p>And, I also agree with you Neo; HPME is an amazing program, which is shown every moment by the amazing achievements of the undergrads and medical students in that program. The quality of the program is what makes decisions between combined programs and regular undergrad institutions difficult--so in a way, it's a sick twisted type of flattery. </p>
<p>As to the MCATs however, I stay strong to my point. ANY student who chooses HPME simply due to the fact that they will be able to avoid the MCATs is definitely not on the right path. However, luckily there are very few students who are in that mindset. </p>
<p>Finally some closing remarks. It has been a very difficult decision for me to even get to the position of "leaning" towards Princeton; this is due to the amazing quality of both options. However, it is not that I wish to "leap and fall" (evilbooyaa), or that I'm insecure in my desire to become a physician.</p>
<p>Thank you again to everyone who has helped me through this difficult decision.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting that up ellen. That was a great post!</p>
<p>Conflicted, I respect your decision but personally, I don't think I could ever stop regretting a guarunteed program like HPME even for HYPSM because it would be a whole lot more stress during undergrad for nothing. I think you could grow much more by having a positive undergrad experience at Northwestern, rather than having one filled with unnecessary stress. I don't think a premed will really have any time to soak in the intellectual atmosphere of an ivy because you will be shut in the library 24/7.</p>
<p>conflicted - the only reason I said "leap and fall" was because you said it in one of your prevoius posts. You said you'd rather "leap and fall" than be locked into HPME's program.</p>
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<p>Evilbooyaa: Sorry Evilbooyaa, I believe you meant it in a more negative way, because you stated it as the result if I chose Princeton, whereas I was mentioning it in a more hypothetical sense because it is definitely not certain that I will "fall" or not make it into medical school if I go to Princeton. </p>
<p>"Go to princeton, especially since you would rather leap and fall then be in HPME." - Evilbooyaa</p>
<p>
[quote]
In no way do I think I could thrive if every moment I would be regretting my decision and questioning myself--asking myself if I could have done better after going to Princeton.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Conflicted, I respect your decision and I hope it's entirely based on how much you like Princeton. What I found through your lines is there seems to be an attitude that Princeton is much better than Northwestern. It's not. I seriously doubt you would be "regretting and questioning yourself in every moment" if you end up at NU. Most likely, you'll move on and enjoy NU; NU isn't some 2nd or 3rd tier school where only the HPMEs are at your caliber. Many non-HPMEs at NU are just as smart. I think you may have an over-inflated view of the difference between Northwestern and Princeton.</p>
<p>I find it quite amusing how many posters are using the phrase "I respect your decision..." Do you really?</p>
<p>People have been pretty clear; you are asking because?</p>
<p>conflicted:</p>
<p>if you like Princeton that much, then I suppose it's a suitable choice, but after speaking to various doctors, I've heard again and again that having a direct path to medical school is the best way to go. Of course, this doesn't apply if you don't really know if you want to be a doctor, then of course Princeton would be the best decision. </p>
<p>and I'm not saying HPME ONLY because of MCAT. It's because of the overall uncertainty that you'll have. You'll have to do all these extra curriculars and build up your application, and not even know if you're getting in to a medical school of your choice. With HPME, you don't have to put up with any of this stress. You'll be at an amazing school, a great medical school, great campus, and be able to throughly enjoy it without uneeded stress. I think HPME would be the more pragmatic decision, but Princeton may be the more passionate one or whatever.</p>