Who Would You Accept?

Applying to College
1

I have three friends, A, B, and C. All three are taking all Honors/more rigorous classes if there is an option between the two.

A is an only child, Korean, female. Her course rigor is pretty good. She is took Algebra 7th grade (2 years before the average person is expected to), wants to be a doctor, and is taking the appropriate courses. She enjoys math ‘because there is always a right answer’. Almost all her family has gone to Ivy Leagues and prestigious Korean universities. However, her EC’s lack diversity. She is 1st chair (violin) in her local Strings orchestra, 3rd year. She is also in another one, 5th chair. She has done one year of PF debate, and has switched to LD after her parents made her choose a solo event. She has a tendency to over-obsess about grades from the pressure of her parents.

B is Indian, middle child, female. She took Algebra 6th grade and wants to go into a STEM field. Her course rigor is odd, to say the least, with a notorious ‘easy’ elective/GPA booster - Speech Fundamentals, while taking Biology and Earth Science online - another ‘easy class’. However, she has impressive extracurriculars. She has won numerous awards in 1st-5th in various categories in Virginia (state with most chapters) on the state level, and 2nd in one category nationally. She has quite the social life and is extremely well liked, however there is a noticeable trend of her saying that she ‘doesn’t have anything against’ a person, to soften the blow for light criticism of a celebrity, or having no stance on controversial political issues. She is in PF debate, and has done poorly. She and her partner have never won a round, except for one at the VA state level. She is in Hindu dance competitions, is a representative in Student Council, and has previously done Math Counts, charity marathons, etc. She complains about how she doesn’t like her teachers often.

C is the eldest, Korean, male. He also took Algebra as a 6th grader and has excellent course rigor. He wants to go into a STEM field as well. He is taking Biology and Chemistry (after dropping a Dual Enrolled course he felt he would do poorly in, i.e. good judgement). He has a ridiculous amount of extracurriculars. He is in ACE and MACC (a subdivision of ACE), won numerous awards in TSA (like B did) and won 5th nationally in another category, done poorly in PF (like B, again), volunteers at the library over the summer, a representative in Student Council, a member of Beta Club, Chess Club, and has quite a social life, but in a very different manner from B. While B self-deprecates and goofs around while singing and dancing, C often discusses political issues like ISIL and cracks jokes about them, and is very snarky. C tries to help those he knows are at a disadvantage socially (made fun of), people often think he is treating them as a charity case for his own gain. Additionallly, he has shown to be an excellent objective writer, but has trouble with creative writing and creating his own ‘voice’.

If you were one of HYPSM, who would you choose? (Especially just Stanford and MIT, since they’re generally better for STEM fields.) Who do you think is the most disadvantaged?

2

… the thing is that a lot of the details you have here will not be factors that a college can actually analyze. They’re not friends with these people, so they don’t see the back-handed compliments or other personality traits. They get grades, test scores, a list of ECs and essays. The onus is on the student to portray as much of their personality as possible in that essay, and perhaps negative traits will come through (usually unbeknownst to the student), but not always.

So if a student has comparable, competitive stats, at these schools it will come down to the ECs, short answers and essays in order to determine fit. To accurately make an assessment, I’d have to read the essays :slight_smile:

3

probably none will get into any of hypsm.

you’re asking strangers. not enough information. hypothetical is hypothetical. why do you care.

Anyway, what gets you into the top schools is not a hodge podge of activies but, generally, an application with a clear focus, with an excellent academic foundation. A focus that illustrates exceedingly impressive achievements in one or two areas. Colleges aren’t looking for a well rounded individual, but a well rounded class. Whoever demonstrates that the best along with favorable letters and essays will have the best chance.

4

@proudterrier assume that these bad qualities happen to shine through in essays and teacher recs, all their EC’s have been listed (including doing poorly in debate), dropped classes show up (just pretend)

@CanadianBrigade I meant if you had to choose between the three, however unlikely it would be, who would you choose?

My point here is also, which would ultimately be the ‘worst’ flaw? Few extracurriculars, easy classes, or not-so-great writing skills/stretching yourself too thin?

5

Between the ‘worst’ flaw, I’d probably say easy classes. However, if student B is still taking honors/APs and still ‘challenging’ himself’ and the guidance counselor would call his schedule ‘most rigorous’ then he would not necessarily be disadvantaged and his ‘easy classes’ prove to be a flaw.

As long as Student A’s ECs are focused, even though relatively few, she should be fine.

Regarding writing ability, that’s a tough one. Though the essay is important, I believe that it usually does not make or break one’s admissions. For that, one’s essays would have to be quite extraordinarily or bad. And, simply put, most application essay’s will fall in between and different adcoms will have different reactions. So, in that sense, I don’t think student C’s ‘poor’ creativity in writing will have a significant effect.

6

Good for you, though, for exploring college admissions this early. One of regrets is not focusing my activities earlier. I was clueless as a freshman/sophomore in regards to admissions competition. #keepgrinding

7

@CanadianBrigade Thanks for letting me know. B is taking all Honors and will be taking AP World next year, considerable easier than AP Euro, which A and C are taking. C is okay in writing, just a little lacking in comparison to a lot of others. I’m sure plenty would say that B is taking more rigorous courses than most, however far from the most difficult.

As for focused activities, I can’t really say any of them are focused on anything other than any kind of STEM career, save A. She is also considering being an engineer, but it’s unlikely.

Further question: Would a far from stellar essay from A and not doig well in debate hurt her a ton, especially if conpared to B and C?

8

C sounds like he will write the best essay, so C.

9

I would auto-reject B. She doesn’t challenge herself and doesn’t work to the full potential. Probably won’t add much to the community either.

Between A and C, C seems to be the stronger applicant.

10

You didn’t include GPA or test scores, so based off of EC’s all three of them don’t have a great chance. Their applications are too cookie cutter; nothing special about them. What year of high school are they in?

Course load is very important, so a weak course load would be most detrimental. A dropped class may not be bad however.

11

I’d choose D - none of the above. Although to be fair, no grades and test scores are provided. However, each is ORM, and none have anything that screams HYPSM.

12

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say OP is C

13

Girls in STEM, especially at MIT have an advantage. Not sure how much the ORM will reduce chances

14

What grades are they in? That matters because taking all honors during your freshman year is way different than doing so during your junior year.

Unfortunately and like many of the commenters above, I see nothing special about these applicants, and they look like the typical Asian rejected students from CC’s decisions forums.

And like the first commenter said, what adcoms see is way different from what you see.

I’d say C is at the most disadvantage, but he seems like he can write some pretty neat essays.

15

No one cares what you did before 9th grade unless it is on your high school transcript. No one knows how you are socially, they cannot judge that.

As for debate, they care that you participated v won some major state tournament. You get points for participating, no one asks how many rounds you won unless you get a title of some kind or make it to some regional competition.

If you are C and Stanford easily lets you transfer into STEM (no idea), I would think about doing something against type. Archeology, poetry, drama. As opposed to debate, rocket building etc.

MIT also has liberal arts and would love someone who applies as a liberal arts major or so I have been told. No one applies to MIT saying they want to be a French major but they have it I am told. Saying Economics probably will not help you.

16

Of course if you have no interest in liberal arts, do not say you want to pursue it

17

Probably none to HYPSM, although we don’t know their GPA/SAT.

18

@Spurs2014 I am female, not Korean, not Indian, and not interested in the STEM field. I am not in TSA, not pressured by my parents to switch events in Speech/Debate, and therefore am not actually A,B, or C. If I portray C in a more favorable light, it’s because I view him in a favorable light, not because I am him.

@SaphireNY Would putting debate on your transcript be good, even if you don’t do well, and therefore no title of distinction? Or would it take away if you have a ton of other activities, and would it seem like padding?

@puzzled123 Their class ranks aren’t calculated since they’re freshman (they would not be ranked 1st or 2nd - there are 2 kids taking weighted AP classes, and A,B, and C aren’t), their GPA’s are all currently 4.0 for the year (our school doesn’t do plus or minus on letter grades), our grade as a whole thinks they will get perfect scores (I doubt it; I feel my grade has no understanding of how tests work). A has informed me that she wishes to get a perfect score on her Standards of Learning tests (Virginia), and is currently studying for the PSAT next year. C studies on a regular basis, though not as much, and B rarely studies, but does on occasion.

@Kelvas She has been shown to be an excellent writer, and is well liked by all her teachers and peers for being extremely nice, and as I said earlier, has no stance in particular on issues. She won’t voice them unless explicitly asked, so she would likely avoid discussing them when it comes to college admission, but I agree with you in that she doesn’t typically contribute much to politics. On the other hand, A has opinions but tries to avoid that sort of conversation and B knows a lot and discusses it, however prefers to look at it objectively. Thanks for the concise answer.

Again, as a general message, none of these people are me, and the choice would be who you would pick first, second, and last if you absolutely HAD to pick between the three.

19

None because they did not submit essays, letters of recommendation, SAT2s, SATs/ACTs, or proper financial paperwork, and instead decided to send me descriptions of their personalities.

20

@TheAtlantic As I said earlier, none of them have written letters of recommendation, SAT/ACT/SAT II, financial paperwork, as they are only freshman. They themselves would have no idea what the teacher recs, essays, or statistics would be like, much less a friend. What I am asking you here is who you would admit if you knew them based on what I have provided you.