<p>I'm the mom of a reasonably accomplished college prep HS senior. </p>
<p>Her stats:
-3.6 GPA
-a few honors classes every year but only one AP (this year. Her senior class schedule is semi-demanding - 7 academic classes plus honors chorus)
-1910 SAT score. Retaking SAT II subjects because her scores sucked :)
-Extracurriculars include advanced band, honors chorus, school musicals, professional career as an actress/model for the past 8 years. She belongs to the Screen Actors Guild, has been appearing in theatre productions since she was 3. Extensive dance, vocal and acting instruction.
-Leadership positions: President of her school's music honor society. Senior Class Advisory president.
-Not sure about volunteer hours, probably in the range of 150 or so.
-Her essay is very strong. </p>
<p>She wants to go to a school in southern california. (We are in northern cal)She has absolutely no idea what she "wants to do with her life" so is looking for a school that will offer her lots of opportunities to learn and also stay connected with her performing arts interests. </p>
<p>After visiting schools and narrowing down her lists, we came up with the following:</p>
<p>Super reach: USC, UCLA
Reach: UCSB
Matches: Pitzer, Loyola Marymount, University of San Diego, UC Irvine, San Diego State
Safeties: UCSC, Long Beach</p>
<p>Of all the schools, she likes USC, LMU, UCSB and San Diego State the best. (I suspect SD state is on the short list because her boyfriend goes there, so I could use some tips on subtle discouragement there ha ha)</p>
<p>So yesterday she meets with her school counselor and the counselor tells her that every school on her list except UC Santa Cruz is a reach for her, and she should strongly consider SF State or community college. My daughter was crushed. She works hard and I think the fact that she has maintained a professional career for the past 8 years while still doing well in school might help counteract her slightly low GPA</p>
<p>Are we delusional? Is the counselor? A little of both? What do you guys think?</p>
<p>IMHO the counselor is off.
LMU, USD, Long Beach, and San Diego State would be matches in my book. I'm not a counselor, but I think some of the others on her list would work also. Pitzer is getting pretty selective, but no harm in trying. I don't know about the bigger schools, but it seems like smaller LAC's would be delighted to have her. Especially with all her performing arts experience.</p>
<p>I don't know the UCs well enough to know which ones might be reaches and which ones might be matches. But she certainly has more options, with her academic credentials and professional career, than community college or San Francisco. I don't know if your counselor is delusional, but he/she definitely sounds lazy. I'd look for a second opinion. (which it looks like you're doing by posting here).</p>
<p>I don't think either one is delusional. I know everyone loves to criticize guidance counselors (and I am not one myself), but I do work with a lot and I have often heard their comments taken out of context, or with a slight change of tone, with the result that a conscientious kid like your daughter comes away with the wrong impression. And who among us has not been misinterpreted (or misquoted) by our own kids?</p>
<p>Because decisions can be somewhat unpredictable, a smart counselor will hesitate to call anything a sure thing. Maybe "reach" isn't the best word, but perhaps not a sure thing. This doesn't mean the counselor is putting down your daughter - just that from year to year depending on how many kids apply, it may not be a guaranteed admission. </p>
<p>I know that our state university had a huge upswing in acceptances two years ago, so last year they were far tougher on admissions. Sooo, while a kid with certain scores would have been safe in the past, lo and behold last year they were not. I wouldn't want to have been the counselor who said to such a mythical kid - sure, you'll get in. </p>
<p>Hang in there and tell your daughter the GC was just being overly cautious.</p>
<p>I'm not a parent, but I can say from looking at where my classmates went, no one with a 3.6 HAS to go to community college! It's not that low a GPA, and her SATs scores a decent too. And the fact that she had a career as well is REALLY impressive. I don't know how much the big state schools will weight ECs, but I agree with Karen Colleges: LACs (and smaller privates) will most likley find that really impressive (in fact, you might consider adding more LACs for that reason, if there are any she likes).</p>
<p>If her GPA is 3.6 unweighted, she should be a strong candidate for a UC, other than maybe Berkeley or LA. It wasn't high on your daughter's list, but UCI's performing arts program is a good one. A good friend (I've known her since she was born) is a senior at UCI in Theater and spent the summer in New York understudying in a Broadway show. (I haven't talked to her parents lately so I don't know if she made it on stage or not.) She auditioned for the job through a UCI theater trip last year. I don't know much about the current states of acting programs in California, but she should be fine.</p>
<p>I hope you don't mind that I slightly re-titled your thread. We have a lot of knowledgeable California parents (re the UC's, CSU's and privates). I wanted to be sure they would catch your thread and then, let's hope, weigh in here.</p>
<p>My knowledge of those schools is not deep. But I would have to say it seems to me that the GC is the wacky one. It's not as though your D's list consists of UCLA,UCB, Stanford and Cal Tech, lol.</p>
<p>On the face of it, it seems a balanced list.</p>
<p>What do you know re the college counseling at her school? Do they have a good track record of sending kids to a variety of types of schools/levels of selectivity/locations? Do they steer everyone to the closest CSU/ccc?
Alternatively, do they focus only on a few uber-students, with the 5.xx UC GPAs, 12 APs, 2400 SATs... to the exclusion of really knowing how to guide excellent students such as your D who fit a different mold?</p>
<p>That's what it sounds like to me. The result is, imo, that she needs better counseling (which you can probably get right here :) ) and a lift to her spirits.</p>
<p>A pox on a hs college counselor having that effect on one of her charges. Beyond disappointing.</p>
<p>Ms. Jones: the UCs use mathematical formulas that give points for various items to determine admissibility. They have such a huge applicant pool that it's impossible to review each application thoroughly.
Each campus does it a bit differently. Check out their websites and you can see how well your Ds situation matches their scoring. Essays rank low in the priority list and the fact that she has been working probably gets no points in that system. On the other hand, minority group status (if she has it) may provide some points.</p>
<p>I know a number of kids that sound like her and have done fine at UCSC. Don't know anything abuot performing arts there, though. I also know a girl who was a top peformer in musical theate here, as well as composed music who did very well at Scripps.</p>
<p>Click on the college that interests you and see if your D's stats puts her in a sea of green/blue (acceptance) or a sea of red (rejection). </p>
<p>Of course, any application is more than GPA and SAT scores--but this should give you an idea if you are in the ballpark when it comes to applying to a school.</p>
<p>The one thing I noted: there is a big difference between a 3.6 and a lower GPA (for example, 3.2) when it comes to successful results. I don't know if the 3.6 GPA you quoted is weighted or unweighted. I'd run both weighted and unweighted GPAs.</p>
<p>dadofsam brings up the important point that the UCs are much more formulaic in their admissions than many other schools of similar caliber. That's why it's so important to have the "California-knowledgeable" parents, such as dos, weigh in.</p>
<p>However, your D's list does include 4 privates and it's not clear to me that they are all reaches; not at all.</p>
<p>UCSB is on the same level as UCI--if UCSB is a reach, then UCI will be a reach.</p>
<p>Also, if you aren't in the SDSU target area, you'll have to have higher grades, etc. to be accepted than if you were from the SD area. We live in North San Diego County, and we aren't counted as being in the target area...</p>
<p>SAT2s will be important for the UCs...good luck on the retake.</p>
<p>A negative on SDSU--impacted classes and majors; could take more than 4 years to get through college.</p>
<p>If performing jobs during college are part of the plan, you might want to look at some of the Cal States in the LA area.</p>
<p>I think GC was too pessimistic. LMU-LA has taken many similar students from our So CA h.s. and she has a very interesting resume to offer. Also take a look at Chapman University --- growing into something special here in Orange County IMO. I believe it's got good programs in business/economics, political science, film and a wide range of performing arts.</p>
<p>UC admissions are not strictly by the numbers anymore and from what I have witnessed, the admissions decisions can be unpredictable and quirky to say the least. I've seen top-scoring kids from private schools rejected from UCB and UCSD while strong but not high-scoring students were admitted from our no-name public. I've seen the charming slacker friend of my S admitted to UCB despite some Cs on his transcript while other stellar students were not. Was it the essay? The ECs? Community service? Who can say? </p>
<p>For your D, it means that I wouldn't agree with someone who says that UCSB or UCI is so far beyond her reach that she shouldn't even try.</p>
<p>Just checking the Loyola Marymount website I found the admitted student profile, which says: 53% admission rate, average gpa 3.62 (weighted), 3.4 (unweighted), average SAT 1165/1600. LMU doesn't require SAT IIs.</p>
<p>This doesn't sound like a reach to me unless we're missing information.</p>
<p>wow, timely and thoughtful responses everyone! Thank you so much. I'll try to respond to various points from several.</p>
<p>-I'm really not trying to put down the counselor. I'm just more confused about whether our expectations are out of whack. I understand that the job is a hard one and of course in the competitive world of college admissions I don't think anything is a "sure thing" anymore. Still, my understanding of a "match" school is that a student generally meets the criteria and has a decent shot of being accepted. I am annoyed at the lack of encouragement my daughter received yesterday, but as one poster noted-sometimes conversations and statements are misunderstood and perhaps my daughter took away only the negative because she was disappointed.</p>
<p>Her UC gpa (3.457) will hurt her at the UC's, no doubt. I think she will get in at one of them, but the UC admissions seem to be pretty unpredictable. I know kids with similar stats to my daughter's who got into mid-tier UC's, but also know kids with far superior stats who were rejected everywhere but Santa Cruz and Davis. </p>
<p>My oldest attends UCSC (a theatre major) and loooves it there. This particular kid is not so much a personality fit for Santa Cruz and plus her sis goes there and she's tired of following in her footsteps. </p>
<p>I liked UC Irvine a lot more than my daughter did :) I think it's performing arts programs are great and the college overall seemed like a place she would enjoy. Her reaction to the school surprised me a bit, actually. I thought she would love it and instead she thought it was just okay. </p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestion of Occidental. It's one that we didn't visit due to time constraints and so hasn't really made it onto any "yea or nay" list yet.</p>
<p>Assuming your daughter has all the required A-G subjects, she is guaranteed admission to the UC system -- it doesn't matter how sucky her SAT II's are, the SAT I's in combination with her GPA are enough even with minimal SAT II scores to meet UC eligibility. UCSB is a match, as is UCSC -- the issue isn't whether she will get in to the system, it is simply a matter of which campus. UCLA is a reach, but not "super" reach, depending on your daughter's field of interest. </p>
<p>Your daughter is a semi-hooked applicant. By that I mean that your daughter's career in acting & modeling is something that will grab attention and give her a boost at some colleges, including UC's. How much of a boost may depend somewhat on your daughter's resume -- which definitely should be included in her application. (Let's just say that Mary Kate & Ashley Olsen didn't get into NYU on the strength of their never-revealed SAT scores.-- I'm assuming your d. is not quite as famous). The time demands of her professional career are a reason why she did not take more APs and may have impacted her GPA -- she should not make excuses on her application, but she should note those demands in an appropriate place and include a resume of her screen credits & major theatrical roles for the private schools, & a mention of the most significant roles in an appropriate place on the UC applications.</p>
<p>It sounds like the GC has an ax to grind against your d. -- maybe there is some jealousy/resentment of your daughter's success with acting & modeling, or simply frustration over making accommodations for school absences occasioned by the career. </p>
<p>Anyway, getting into a top college is a lot like auditioning -- only most of the "audition" takes place on paper. Your d will likely experience the same success in college apps that she has in her career, so she might want to expand her search to include other private colleges that might place a lot of value on performing arts. Consider Chapman (more of a safety), and Scripps (more of a reach). </p>
<p>Your d.'s horizons would be even broader if she was looking outside of southern Cal -- but with her career I can see why she would want to remain nearby. </p>
<p>My daughter is at Barnard with a combined SAT score of 1930 & combined SAT II's of 1210 - and she was admitted in their toughest year ever for college admissions. She was also accepted at UC Berkeley & U of ChicagoHer college roommate at Barnard last year had a sucky GPA, including D's on her transcript, but (apparently) a really amazing portfolio of poetry. If a kid has something that is outside-of-the-box in terms of personal qualifications, those scattergrams and number analysis are irrelevant -- you have to lead with your strengths not dwell on the weakspots.</p>
<p>Does your daughter need a safety? Yes -- the UC *system<a href="not%20a%20particular%20campus">/I</a> is her safety. CSU Long Beach & San Diego State are also safe enough --beyond that she really should reach for whatever she wants.</p>
<p>And also special thanks to the poster who referred me to the Arcadia High scatter chart. That is really helpful info! Wish I'd found that sooner...</p>
<p>I think the counselor is off on this one. With her stats she should be able to get into many schools other than CC. Visit the websites of the various colleges she's interested in and see the average/mean stats of the latest incoming class. When you see the average/mean stats remember that about half the admits had 'below' that level of stats. Your D has an unusual hook with her acting career.</p>
<p>I think she might want to consider adding UCSD to her list even if it's a reach. It actually has a highly ranked Theatre and Dance program.
[quote]
The most recent US News rankings also place these programs in the nation’s top 10: Theatre and Dance (3rd);
<p>Make sure she stresses her acting/career in her apps because this should help with admissions even at the UCs. Applying to more UCs is as simple as checking an additional box on the app form (and paying an additional app fee).</p>
<p>Calmom-your post is great! yes, it safe to assume my daughter is NOT as famous as MK & A Olsen. I do not believe there is any resentment or jealousy but perhaps more of a simple lack of knowledge about her accomplishments. We have really limited her work that would interfere with school (I think her absentee rate is probably only slight above average, if that) and only her closest friends know much about her career. Although she has a commercial running right now that she's pretty recognizable in so her cover is probably blown :)</p>
<p>I think we're getting a bit of a late start here, but I do believe that if my daughter were to interview at some of the private schools, her chances would be greatly improved. Thanks to years of auditions and performing, she definitely knows how to market herself. Although it seems she didn't do such a great job "auditioning" with the college counselor :)</p>
<p>Don't know if she is interested in broadening her list but other So Cal schools my Nor Cal girls are looking at that may interest your D as well:</p>
<p>University of Redlands: 1 hour from the beach, highly rated
Cal Lutheran: Between SB and LA and less than 45 min from the beach</p>
<p>concur with others: the lower UCs are all safeties, the mid-tier UCs are matches or safeties, depending on who reads the file. [On another thread, AdOfficer at UVa makes clear that he gives preference to kids who take Calc, while one of his colleagues loves theater-types.] </p>
<p>Also concur with looking at Chapman where she could be competitive for merit money.</p>
<p>But, Cal States are almost purely by the numbers so the applicant's spirit only comes thru on SAT 1 scores and grades. The Cal States do not use essays, nor do they consider the Writing component of SAT 1, nor subject test scores. The two Cal States of interest are both 'impacted' (preference to local kids), and I would not consider either a "safety" since your D's stats are ~ the median at least for SD, which has out of area average gpa = 3.63, average SAT 1128. [Any non-impacted Cal State would be an auto accept.]</p>
<p>btw: the impacted Cal States are allowed to "close" the application calendar early, so it best to apply Oct 1.</p>