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I can't emphasize enough that my daughter originally wanted a co-ed school, but was won over by Smith. Despite my own initial reluctance to consider Smith an option, I'm thrilled that things worked out as they did.
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<p>Couldn't agree more, nicely said! We too were looking at other colleges, especially Amherst which wait-listed our D. While we were visiting Amherst one day, we decided to just take a short drive to visit Smith. We spent a few hours doing the tour and talking to some of the "women". At the time, we had no idea of what was to happen with Amherst. Our D loved Smith, and this took her and us by surprise; as an all-women's college was not even being thought about (well, honestly, it was by me; but that's another story altogether.) After hearing from Amherst, she spent many more days at Smith just talking and visiting classes, and found that this was just the right place. (I think meeting a couple of young women helped with this decision). ;)<br>
As disappointed as she initially was in the Amherst decision, she realized that it was an omen because she just loved Smith and wanted to attend because of its strong science program. She realized, after spending time there, that attending an all-women's college was empowering and that all of the attention in her science classes would be for the women that were present. </p>
<p>Just like MWFN, we now have a very happy camper who cannot see herself anywhere else but Smith! She just loves it, and we have seen her grow into a more mature, self-reliant young woman in three months. She is not afraid to challenge herself academically (this was never a problem), but she now is stretching out to other academic areas because of her confidence (neuroscience, advanced cell biology, etc). We and she couldn't be happier with this decision, and it somehow (gulp) makes the tuition payments a little easier to swallow.</p>
<p>You're correct about that. Although, on another note of positivism towards Smith and the admissions department, our D applied EDII and still received a STRIDE scholarship. This took us by total surprise. Even though we always thought she should be considered, Smith had her with the ED decision and didn't have to offer anything in return. Yet, they did. This made us realize that they really do appreciate and reward talented women regardless of the decision process. Just an added plus, and kudos to them for their decision.</p>
<p>Interesting article written in 1999 by Elizabeth Tidball called "what is this thing called institutional productivity?" Here's the conclusion:</p>
<p>A person might well wonder what is the relevance of studying baccalaureate origins and institutional productivity. One response relates to the fact that these methodologies provide for the only outcomes research that is both objective and quantitative. Such characteristics are especially useful because they contribute uniquely determined information to a large and overarching area of research that seeks to define what aspects of institutional environments are especially beneficial for women. As is patently obvious, there is no single way to determine these qualities. Rather it is important that there be a number of approaches, from quantitative interrogation of self-reports to qualitative social science studies, to case studies and to anecdotal evidence, in addition to the research presented here. Each provides its own kind of information about positive outcomes for collegiate women that points to attributes regularly found in women's colleges. Another response relates to a constellation of consistent findings from such studies that contributes to our larger knowledge base. Here there are at least four recurring themes: 1) simply being a college for women is of prime importance to women's subsequent success; 2) the productivity of women's colleges is disproportionately greater than their selectivity might suggest; 3) the negative effect of men students on women's accomplishments is absent from women's colleges, thereby not diminishing their productivity; and 4) women's colleges provide an abundance of adult women role models who are closely related to these colleges' productivity of successful women.</p>
<p>Had exactly the same experience with my daughter vis-a-vis Smith. Hung out with the "smart girls" in HS, but a little in the shadow of the brightest (e.g., ones who got full rides to MIT). Wanted coed, but visited Smith at my suggestion while touring other schools in MA. Eventually chooses Smith turning down more highly rated schools.
The truly heartening thing is that she has really blossomed at Smith. Always a bit quiet/shy, my jaw dropped when I found out she was elected SOCIAL chairman of her house Sopomore year! She's having a great time. Working very hard but stimulated and engaged with many great friends.</p>
As the parent of an '06 grad, I concur with many of the sentiments expressed here. In response to the quote above about tuition, my current reaction (now that we are no longer paying tuition! ;)) is:
Seeing my D involved in her post-college life, employed at a challenging job in her field, and seemingly nicely on her way to a productive and satisfying life, certainly helps those tuition payments fade into the background. I honestly wonder if things would have turned out nearly as well for her had she taken advantage of one of her alternative college options. Who knows, but we are delighted with the outcome, both personal and professional, of her Smith experience. The money can be replaced, but not the life experiences. </p>
<p>And now D is participating in an alum focus group on Smith's future and has signed up to be an alum Smith interviewer! :)</p>
<p>Great news Jyber! Always nice to hear another success story; warms the cockles of my heart. (hey, it's the holiday season, I can use the word cockles if I want to!) :)</p>
<p>Jyber, I know that Smith was the best choice for my DD - it's just that paying tuition is . . . knee-buckling.</p>
<p>My husband and I sent her there, however, because we knew the education and the intangibles that awaited her. I mean, she could have had full tuition at a top research university (employee benefits), but we knew she would do better at Smith, where we have to pay full freight. Since she already took three courses at this other university, we have something to compare it to - and Smith is much more challenging for the areas she wants to study. In my mind, there is no comparison in quality.</p>
<p>Momwaiting, I meant no criticism at all and totally appreciate how hard it is to write those checks, as it was how I felt as well. I just wanted to give reassurance that we don't have regrets!</p>
<p>My D went back and forth, spring of her senior year, deciding between a scholarship to an honors program at a very good state U, and Smith. She made her final decision after an accepted students function in our area - which I subsequently referred to as the "$150,000 tea." </p>
<p>It was not an easy thing for us to do as my H (primary wage earner by far) became unemployed after her Smith application and before her acceptance. We qualified for zero financial aid because of his previous income. Yet we had no assurance of his future income -- as a matter of fact, we were quite concerned about it! ;-( So it was a real leap of faith to send D on to Smith. </p>
<p>Believe me, I did have to wonder many times if we were doing the right thing.</p>
<p>I just wanted to communicate that now that we can look back on that leap, we do feel quite good about the decision to commit to Smith. I hope that will be the case for all parents of Smithies.</p>
<p>Chalk me up as another who is pressed more uncomfortably than I would like by the price tag for Smith...and yet wouldn't trade it for anything. TheMom works for a major Top 25 university, so we know what the competition is like, and Smith is a winning experience.</p>
<p>If I'm at all hesitant about pushing Smith even harder than I do, it's because I think it's possible that all the cherries on the slot machine in terms of "fit" lined up for my D and that others might not have quite the same experience.</p>
<p>Regarding the differences between big universities and a woman's LAC..</p>
<p>My daughter is now at Bryn Mawr (she liked Smith but preferred the Bryn Mawr Philly area and program for a bunch of reasons); and I have a son who just graduated from a large, research oriented Ivy. An amazing difference to me is the personal attention she is getting at Bryn Mawr, which I am sure is similar at Smith. My son graduated with honors from the Ivy; yet was able to attend most classes when he felt like it! or not! He was graded on test scores. He actually enjoyed, on the whole, the classes he took at the "sister" LAC more...smaller, more discussion, and as he told me, the profs knew if he was there or not</p>
<p>My daughter seems MUCH more engaged with the coursework so far; she is impressed by Bryn Mawr's honor code, (that would never work at the Ivy, lol; that was cutthroat all the way) the intellectual abilities of her classmates She too turned down much easier financial rides, and we are paying more money. I believe it will be worth it in the end. We will see!</p>
<p>LIMom, I don't know how Ivies have changed, but there was a great emphasis on the honor code when I attended my alma mater. No one cheated. No one even thought of cheating. I also received individualized attention from my Ivy profs - much the way my daughter gets at Smith. Maybe because I attended one of the "small" Ivies?</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr is a wonderful school. My daughter had Bryn Mawr as an option as well, but it didn't have a strong enough program for what she wanted to study. Still, if she had decided on Bryn Mawr, I'm sure she would have been every bit as happy as she is at Smith. I don't think that most people realize that the top all-women's colleges provide an Ivy-like education. This may have to do in part with the admissions rate that hides the actual selectivity and in part with the absence of visible graduate degree programs. Often, it's the graduate departments that make universities world famous, and not the undergrad ones. However, when you're shopping for an undergraduate education, you need to concentrate on the type of education <em>you</em> will be receiving.</p>
<p>At family weekend at Smith, one mother stood up at a Q&A session with President Christ and said that she had two daughters at Smith. Her youngest, a boy, could benefit from such a personalized, challenging education. Did Smith have any plans to go co-ed? Everyone laughed because we all knew the answer: no. While in another time I would have thought this decision to stay single gender was archaic, I'm grateful that the all-women's colleges stayed the course. After all, it's now more difficult for qualified girls to get into elite colleges than it is for boys - and yet these highly intelligent students deserve a top-rate education as well.</p>
<p>I don't want to misrepresent my son's University experience in terms of the honor code - its not that he reported rampant cheating - he did not; I was referring more to the atmosphere of grade competition. Big emphasis on who was getting what grade in what course. I dont think SOME(obviously not all) of his Ivy friends could handle a self proctored final; the pressure was too intense to get that A. Also again, what surprised me is how easy it was NOT to attend class, if you felt like it! Just study the notes, take the test, and as long as you showed up some, it was ok.</p>
<p>What is very telling to me is that for graduate school, most of his rec's are coming not from the University, but from the LAC where he took many courses. Those are the profs he got to know the best. </p>
<p>Funny how things worked out. My daughter did apply, and got rejected, from my son's alma mater. I am sure it was at least in part because her math SAT was not superlative; the women's colleges, and some other LAC's were able to look at her whole application, and saw her outstanding performance in the SAT 2's and AP's in the humanities and social sciences, and her GPA. I was particularly impressed with the schools that asked for the students to send in a graded paper. Much more telling about the student I thought than the SAT's, in this day of college prep and professional counseling. (neither of which my kids did - they refused, lol. I did offer the SAT prep!)</p>
<p>Smith is my Ds top choice (in this country, anyway - her top choice all-around is in Ireland). She is a little concerned about the all-girl aspect - most of her friends are boys, and she's had difficulty maneuvering through the whole "queen bee and wannabee" way that girls socialize with each other. I don't know much of that is a factor at Smith, I would hope that the young women who select Smith aren't necessarily the same kind of young women who are looking to achieve alpha dog status socially. (Academically might be another matter all together). </p>
<p>For any Smithies or parents of Smithies: do you or your daughters take a lot of classes through the cosortium, or spend a lot of time socializing with the people at the other colleges?</p>
<p>"I was particularly impressed with the schools that asked for the students to send in a graded paper. Much more telling about the student I thought than the SAT's, in this day of college prep and professional counseling."</p>
<p>Me, too. I was surprised by the request, but it made perfect sense.</p>
<p>Irishmomof2-
In high school, my daughter had many male friends. She was very concerned that she would miss having men around, though Smith's other charms ultimately wooed her. She is very social and outgoing and has actively sought men out at the other schools (with some success), though she hasn't taken any classes at the other schools (yet). Because of the diversity and intelligence (in the women in her house and in her classes) she hasn't felt that "queen bee" syndrome that you refer to. At Smith everyone seems very focused and the petty stuff of high school has fallen by the wayside. My daughter has already planned out her courses for next year and emailed me her new resume (for internships). She has a personal relationship with her professors, very small classes, and challenging coursework. She loves her house and is bringing a friend home for Thanksgiving. We couldn't be more pleased. But it is not the traditional college experience, with frat parties, men throwing up in the hall and lots of hooking up. Personally, I think that's a good thing.</p>
<p>Irishmom, my d is a first year, and they are not allowed to take classes at the other schools until sophomore year, although I'm sure there are exceptions made under extraordinary circumstances. My d has one male Hampshire student and one male Amherst student in her classes - not exactly a male presence. She has gone to the Amherst campus once. </p>
<p>That said, my daughter is quieter than most. One of my d's friends, a sophomore who graduated from the same h.s., was always boy-crazy - and she still loves it at Smith. This girl goes to the Amherst campus quite often for parties and, because she is in one of the a capella groups, travels to Harvard, Yale, etc. and has met guys there. It's not as easy as being in a co-ed school, though.</p>
<p>My d. has said that Smith is completely unlike high school. While people have their groups of friends and separate activities, my d. has not encountered any exclusionary/queen bee sort of behavior. As she crosses campus, people say hi to her, even though they are only acquaintances. In the classroom, students don't compare grades - although my d has never compared grades, so I'm not sure how accurate her perception of it is.</p>
<p>The only Smithie she had problems with was her (now former) roommate.</p>