Why All-Women's Schools?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>Hello,</p>

<pre><code> I am a male high school sophmore in an elite college prep corse(please forgive my spelling). I am not a top student nor do I know much about women or anything else as a mater of fact. I don't know much about the schools you are talking about nor the terms you are using(what is a LAC school?). However there is something I feel I should say and would wish if you respected my opinion and posibly teach me something seeing as most of you are parents.

I feel as you are more promoting sexism than you are not. By many of the comments in this forum you are saying that women are not treated fairly in coed schools. You are saying that men are holding women down. (I am not saying this because that I am male but because I try to view all things in a neutral eye). I belive all people can do any thing regardless of gender, race, or other factors especialy in this country. Single sex schools put up walls between the sexes and thus promote sexism.

To some of the comments I have read about females not exeling in coed schools. I do not beleve this to be true. In my classes the female students dominate the class in academics and exra-coricular abilities. Also to Celler, you said many females avoid the maths and sciences but in my experiences most of the females around me have grand intrests in math and science. Many want to be engineeres, archtects, scientists and other medical profesionals. I dont belive from my experiences that teachers are puting women down mainly because 90% of my high school teachers have been females all with gradute degrees(i have 8-10 classes a year and have had 2 male teachers, for JROTC and chemistry and neither of them had advanced degrees).
</code></pre>

<p>All in all I belive this forum has become a sexist argument. I belive that all people have equal chances with hard work for anything. And I belive that single sex schools discriminate and put barriors between people. Many of life's lessons are learned through our dealings with other people and if we only surround ourselves with like minded people we do not grow as a whole. Thank you for listening.</p>

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<p>Read post #1.</p>

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<p>Excuse me but my intentions were not to be mean or demean you. However I am curious and simply wanted to put my opinion out. Now is that so wrong?</p>

<p>P.S.- sorry if I have no tact in dealing with people. My sincerest apologies.</p>

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<p>Tenyosho has good points, although I disagree with many of them. </p>

<p>The real world (that is, life beyond high school and even college) is not as perfect as we would like to believe. I can say that I believe that no one should be discriminated against because of race, religion, or gender, but that doesn't make it so. Also, just because I haven't seen it, it doesn't mean that those situations don't exist. </p>

<p>I'd like to respond more fully, but unfortunately, I'm short on time this evening.</p>

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<p>I feel like this thread is a little disparaging towards women who do attend coed colleges, as though we are all going to come out inferior to women who attend all women's schools, and that the only reason we have for attending a coed institution is that we're subconsciously looking for a husband. This is a stretch, and I'm somewhat playing devil's advocate (though as a woman who attends Amherst, I find this thread to be extremely slanted, not surprisingly), but couldn't people use the arguments found in this thread to reclose the ivies and other elite coed schools to women again? I mean, they obviously do better in a single sex environment.</p>

<p>I have nothing against all women schools, but it's not for every woman, and though the posters here have said so themselves, I wish they'd stop implying that women who attend coed institutions are misguided, submissive, and valuing the social above the academic.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I wish they'd stop implying that women who attend coed institutions are misguided, submissive, and valuing the social above the academic.

[/quote]

As the OP, those words never have and never will come out of my mouth regarding women who attend school anywhere. The original posting was about how all-womens schools and colleges turn out leaders, self-motivated individuals, and self-assured scholars. Also, how secondary schools and colleges treat women as second class citizens in what is still a man's world; most of the time subconciously. I substantiated my reasoning with research in the field. Some have disagreed with my thesis, and that is their prerogative. But, never have I said that women who attend coed colleges are misguided or submissive. Strong women, such as yourself, will always survive and excel in anything you put your mind to. As the thread went on, it got convoluted by many posters who brought in their own ideas about the subject, and it turned into an argument about research opportunities at LAC's vs. larger research colleges like MIT, Harvard, etc. That was not the intent of the original posting either. I have a D attending Smith in the fall, and proud of it! I am proud of you as well, for attending a great college like Amherst; one of the most difficult colleges to gain entrance to in the country. Says a lot about you and your talents :)</p>

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<p>with other people and if we only surround ourselves with like minded people we do not grow as a whole. ]]</p>

<p>You've obviously never visited Smith. A like minded and homogenous campus would never, ever be used to describe the Smith student body. You can have a woman wearing Goth sitting in a classroom next to a student wearing a dress and pearls. I kid you not. ;)</p>

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<p>Here's some stats I found on the Reed College website, which might be of interest; note it deals with the top 10 in each field only.</p>

<p><a href="http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>While Smith should be commended for its efforts in the area of economic diversity, with one of the highest percentages of low income students in its ranks. On the other hand, ethnically it is extremely homogeneous. More than 70% of its enrollees are non-hispanic whites, one of the highest rates among LACs. Amherst long considered a bastion a whitebread America by contrast is only 60% non-hispanic white.</p>

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<p>[[On the other hand, ethnically it is extremely homogeneous. More than 70% of its enrollees are non-hispanic whites, one of the highest rates among LACs.]]</p>

<p>You’re not close, nor is Smith remotely near the least diverse campus. </p>

<p>Smith, at 52% non-hispanic white, is 2.1% away from having non-hispanic whites in the minority. While I will acknowledge 11% of the students didn’t report ethnicity, for this discussion we’ll use the reported figures.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.smith.edu/ir/documents/CDS2005_2006_001.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/ir/documents/CDS2005_2006_001.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>1st-year students:18% In-state students
82% Out-of-state students
100% Women
1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
14% Asian/Pacific Islander
6% Black/Non-Hispanic
8% Hispanic
52% White/Non-Hispanic
8% Non-Resident Alien
11% Race/ethnicity unreported </p>

<p><a href="http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1376&type=qfs&word=smith%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1376&type=qfs&word=smith&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>(That's the way all other schools report their figures as well. Let's grant, however, that the more rural LACs - Smith, Amherst, Williams included - for some reason are much less attractive to Asian-Americans (I hate that category, as it contains so many hugely different strains) than the more urban/suburbn schools.)</p>

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<p>Plum 1...seems like the women at Reed are doing just fine for themselves; not bad for attending a lowly, research starved LAC; (not to mention one which caters to (GULP!) WOMEN) ;)</p>

<p>Cellardweller, it appears that you are only content when bashing anything we say about Smith? You commend it for its economic diversity, but not satisfied until you blast it for its homogeneity (with the wrong data, I may add). Where did that come from. Thanks for setting the record straight once again RLT and Mini.</p>

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<p>BJM*:</p>

<p>I used the official data from
<a href="http://www.economicdiversity.org/profiles.php?unitid=167835%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.economicdiversity.org/profiles.php?unitid=167835&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yoy may want to check it by yourself. The fact remains the campus is signficantly less ethnically diverse than many of its peers.</p>

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<p>I decided to look up the statistics myself. Cellardweller, I'm not sure how reliable the statistics you got are, because princetonreview.com's statistics are more like roadlesstraveled's (are those two sources are probably more reliable than the one you got). Maybe you should find a better way to criticize Smith. </p>

<p>I think this may be an issue of how the "unreported" students count. Cellarweller's site doesn't have an "unreported category", plus it's a few years behind. <a href="http://www.jbhe.com/features/38_leading_colleges.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jbhe.com/features/38_leading_colleges.html&lt;/a> gave a ranking of the best liberal arts colleges for African Americans. Smith was number 12. The description for Smith basically said that Smith has had trouble attracting black applicants due to a historically conservative reputation, but has made fairly significant strides in recent years. Judge for yourself. I don't know about details on Asians, Latinos, etc. </p>

<p>This piece of the argument seems pretty futile at any rate. I think it's safe to say that Smith is neither remarkably ethnically diverse, nor is it exceptionally homogenous.</p>

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<p>Arianneag, the data I used is pretty reliable as it comes directly from the department of education.</p>

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<p>The data cellardweller has chosen to use does not come from the Common Data Sets, the required official source of information, all collected in the same way, by all colleges and universities across the country.</p>

<p>What the secondary source (NOT official data) she used did was add all "race/ethnicity unreported" and all "non-resident alien" to the "white-non-Hispanic" category. (why, I have no idea.)</p>

<p>At any rate, take all with a grain of salt. The difference between Smith and, say, Harvard (aside from the Asian-American population) is not the race/ethnicity per se, but in the economic characteristics of those found within each of the categories (which, along with the self-selective pool of XX chromosomes and those will consider a school with only XX chromosomes, accounts for much of the SAT difference as well.)</p>

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<p>Agreed Mini...the common data sets are the most reliable sources of information, as all schools report their data in the same ways. Consistency in these issues is key! Nice post Arianneag!</p>

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<p>the data I used is pretty reliable as it comes directly from the department of education.]]</p>

<p>Since when has the government ever gotten anything accurate? ;) Sorry Mini.</p>

<p>You may want to check it by yourself. The fact remains the campus is signficantly less ethnically diverse than many of its peers.]]</p>

<p>As the common data set that is published on the Smith website demonstrates, Smith is as diverse as any LAC and much more so than most. Page 3. Do the math. <a href="http://www.smith.edu/ir/documents/CDS2005_2006_001.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/ir/documents/CDS2005_2006_001.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What confuses me, if your wife is an alumna, and you claim to still be involved with the college, at least financially, you should have known how diverse Smith has become over the past 40 yrs. and the great strides the college continues to accomplish attracting ethic minorities. There have been untold numbers of articles in the Alumnae magazine, and elsewhere, attesting to immense ethnic diversity at Smith.</p>

<p>Callardweler, I’m also confused at to why on a thread asking “why a women’s college?” you seem to continually attempt to disparage the college. If one tactic doesn’t work, you play the race card.</p>

<p>A friend mentioned to me, since the research essay I posted proved you were again wrong regarding the quality of sciences at the LAC vs. U, you would find something else to criticize.</p>

<p>Gawdd knows Smith has issues, as all colleges do. I’ll be the first to admit it. But from now on how about you complain about some real, not perceived or invented problem? ;)</p>

<p>I have to tell you, Callardweler, three of my very good friends are MIT alums. All three believe Smith is a great college. One is a woman :) One is married to an Amherst alumna, and she has nothing but praise for Smith.</p>

<p>Hmm, speaking of Amherst women, ahobbiitinside is also correct in my experience. My friend's wife is certainly a strong accomplished woman and by no means would she take a backseat to any man, including her brilliant, accomplished MIT alum husband--lol</p>

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<p>I don't think women - or men - should be demeaned for attending a specific college. I don't think that is anyone's intention here. Amherst women, Smith women, UCLA women, all college-bound women are striking out to form their personal niches. The same goes for men. "Fit" is highly individualized, which is why the thread is titled, "Why All-Women's Schools?" It is not titled, "Why Avoid Co-ed Schools?"</p>

<p>For some, and obviously those "some" are women, the all women's colleges provide a valuable education. The reason the system works is not because women need to be segregated to succeed, or because they cannot compete against men, but because such a school creates a unique environment that many women respond to both emotionally and intellectually. It is not, of course, the only kind of environment that positively affects women. </p>

<p>I think that women and men who choose an LAC are seeking a small, close-knit, and academically ambitious community. The women's colleges happen to take that close-knit community to the next level simply because they can given the nature of the student body. Women are much less guarded when they are in a room full of female friends - whether that's at a co-ed college, a women's college, or just a girls' night out. At a women's college, it's like a huge sorority, albeit it one with cliques. Some will thrive in that more emotionally relaxed atmosphere while others will be driven crazy by it.</p>

<p>Just to reiterate: I went to a co-ed college myself where I was outnumbered by men 3 to 1, and I never regretted it. I refused to consider a women's college myself. However, now that I've been through the process with my daughter and have seen first hand what these colleges are like, I can honestly say that they have tremendous benefits. I am one of the converted. I don't object to students picking a co-ed school to attend, but I do object to people dismissing a women's college because it's not the "real" world. Of course it's not the real world - but neither are co-ed colleges and large universities. That's the beauty of the undergraduate years: you don't have to live in the real world yet.</p>

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<p>Coverted, heh! Don't drink the lemonade! <em>LOL</em></p>

<p>
[quote]
I am one of the converted. I don't object to students picking a co-ed school to attend, but I do object to people dismissing a women's college because it's not the "real" world. Of course it's not the real world - but neither are co-ed colleges and large universities. That's the beauty of the undergraduate years: you don't have to live in the real world yet.

[/quote]

Nor am I demeaning coed colleges; as they provide an excellent education for the men and women that choose to attend them. And...that is the difference; this choice that our daughters have made. Maybe through their own volition, or with some help from us as parents, they see the value in what an all-women's college has to offer. They will leave Smith very confident women in what they have achieved in the classroom, but more importantly, they will feel that they are prepared to take on the world in a leadership position, rather than what society has planned for them in this man's world. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The reason the system works is not because women need to be segregated to succeed, or because they cannot compete against men, but because such a school creates a unique environment that many women respond to both emotionally and intellectually. It is not, of course, the only kind of environment that positively affects women.

[/quote]

Amen to that! Great post MWFN. Women do respond to this kind of environment emotionally and intellectually. They exit with greater self-assurance and a confidence that will remain for a lifetime.</p>