Rather than derail the admissions cheating thread, I thought that I would, once again, raise a question which has come up earlier. If elite colleges are recruiting top athletes because of the specific traits that athletes have, why are they not doing the same for top dancers? Dancers have every single trait that athletes do, and have creative aspects to dance that athletics do not have. Dancers have the same level of focus, tenacity, time management, etc, they are just as athletic as athletes, just as good at team playing, when needed, and as competitive when needed, as well. They have good spatial sense, and the ability to be part of a complex set of interactions. Moreover, they also have at least elements of choreography which is very creative, on top of all the rest.
In addition, you can test whether a dancer is actually a dancer with 10 minutes in a dance studio.
I agree with everything you posted. And Iâll add, many schools have dance groups to which these dancers could belong and perform even at paid shows. So whatâs the difference, honestly?
Title IX. Reverse issue here. Would have to fund and recruit enough male teams to offset. And for a dance team itâs a lot of spots in admission to field a team. and just so many seats.
Would only work if you eliminated some more fringe sports. Fencing or sailing types. And good luck with that.
You are conflating two things, recruitment of athletes for a college team vs getting admitted due to extraordinary and/or unusual abilities.
With respect to the first, elite colleges donât have a dance âteamâ to fill, unlike their sports teams. But with regard to the second, dancers with unique abilities will see a boost, just like an international athlete (in a sport where he/she will not represent the college) will receive.
Of course for girls, unique ability usually means dancing at a professional level, which is often incompatible with the academics needed for admission. But for boys, itâs much easier to be unique, and they do appear to receive a boost in admissions to very selective schools.
However, girls can benefit substantially from having strong academic abilities if they want to do a BFA in dance, because they stand out amongst the pool of candidates competing for academic merit scholarships. And for top but not elite colleges, dance can be a strong EC, just like being a school sport captain (without any exceptional ability) would be.
Title IX wouldnât require an equal number of female dancers as male dancers, but rather require an equal number of opportunities and money spent on those opportunities in proportion to the gender make up of the school. Schools donât have to have a female football team if it has a male team, but needs to offer a similar number of female sports, scholarships, an opportunities. Many of the big flagship schools have 2 or 3 more womenâs teams to offset the football team numbers.
Dance is not an NCAA sport, so those numbers are not included to offset sports team opportunities. I think the OP is referring to the school admitting dancers as an academic major and not as an athletic recruit. The dancer would be considered in a similar way to a non-recruited athlete or a high school drama student or a science award winner. Very good background and part of the holistic admissions process, but not a hook. Those students may continue those activities in a formal way in college, such as a major in theater or science, or in a less formal way such as trying out for a play or participating in club sports, but thatâs not going to be a hook for admissions.
Youâd have to convince the school that giving dance scholarships and admissions hooks is a good thing for the school. I assume that the school has X number of admissions spots for the dance programs and takes the best. If it finds that the best are no longer applying but going to another school, the school might change its admission policies or start giving better scholarships or find some other way to attract the best.
You are correct in that dancers have the same traits as athletes. I think one reason they are not in the same category is because sports teams have a minimum and maximum number of players, but there are no such requirements to build a dance troupe. One year there may be a bumper crop of talented basketball players, and some players will not get recruited, but five or six years later coaches must scramble just to fill their team. The dance department doesnât have maximum or minimum requirements or limitations.
@twoinanddone I thought the thread was asking why donât we treat dancers like student athletes.
Yes, you wonât need a male Irish step team ,but you will need that spend and headcount added somewhere. Colleges are not limitless in finances or capacity.
I was only answering why they arenât treated the same. Maybe they should be, but I mentioned my concerns previously.
Should they be viewed as gifted and exceptional sure. Is it a Cracker Jack EC. Of course.
But if it is to be considered a sport and treated accordingly. I stand by my view. Perhaps it should be and replace another sport or two.
Which would eliminate my concern. But I donât want to go down that rabbit hole.
I also have a theory. Our D21 is a ballerina. Our S19 is a three season XC/track runner who runs 50+ miles a week. Even he would say that D21âs schedule and training is insane. ButâŠshe doesnât want to continue ballet in college. Doesnât want to major or minor in dance. Honestly, if one is going to be a ballerina, then she would be auditioning for companies and not going to college.
Sheâs a very strong student. Iâm afraid colleges will see that she spends 30+ hours a week being trained by Russian teachers and performing in ballets that are staged at major venues and the public pays to see them. So, her biggest EC, the one she would be bringing to a school isnât something she will continue. Colleges have dance teams but thatâs more contemporary or jazz not ballet. For lack of a better word, sheâs kind of a ballet snob and probably wouldnât join a team with girls who hadnât been classically trained.
She will try to explain all of the things she learned by her ballet experience and how it will translate into what sheâd like to do in college. I do think her experience is impressive but the schools she wants to consider are not those with ballet programs.
@Twoin18 But that just raises a further question: why do elite colleges need sports teams that require students to be recruited for sole purpose of playing on that sport team?
However, I was informed by a person more knowledgeable in the topic than I am (my D), that âdance teamsâ exists in any of the elite colleges which also have a Dance department (Columbia, UChi, Barnard, UCLA, Duke, UCB, UMich, Wesleyan, Midd, to name a few). That also may be why dance is a different category than athletics - it also is in academics for many elite schools.
So I may have just answered my own questions.
@homerdog My Dâs an excellent hip-hop/jazz/contemporary dancer (especially jazz), and her ballet is very good but not excellent. She keeps on training in ballet, because it can only help the rest of her dancing. She was classically trained, and, in truth, classical training is probably the best training for almost any type of dance.
If dance WERE treated as a sport, it would be immensely helpful to colleges in terms of Title IX. Many colleges have beefed up certain womenâs sports teams expressly to get enough women athletes to counterbalance the big fishâmenâs football. A great book to read on this subject is Gilbert M. Gaulâs Billion Dollar Ball: A Journey Through the Big-Money Culture of College Football. In it, you will learn why womenâs crew has become a huge sport at many D1 powerhousesâŠand it is not because there are so many women rowers.
Similarly, they have cut the equivalent menâs team to hit Title IX requirements, e.g, check out how many colleges still have menâs gymnastics.
Itâs called the Flutie Effect. Georgetown applications multiplied 45% between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern applications advanced 21% after winning the Big Ten Championship in football. When Florida Gulf Coast made it to the Sweet 16 a few years back, their applications jumped 27.5%. When George Mason made it to the Final Four, their out-of-state applications went up 54%.
So unless thereâs a March Madness or Rose Bowl for dance, I donât think you can make the comparison.
Edit to say, I think dancers are extremely talented and athletic so this is not a slam on dancers.
Schools do not recruit or give hooks to their non-varsity sports or ECs. The schools like the traits that athletes have, but they still want them to swim, throw the ball, and run fast on the varsity teams for that school. A school that doesnât have a hockey team doesnât give an athletic hook to a skater even if that skater is in great shape, a good leader, a dedicated player. Schools do not recruit for the dance team, the marching band, the club lacrosse team even though many of those participate have all the desirable traits.
Some schools do have spots for special skills applicants, but those are usually for those students majoring in music, art, dance, theater. Some of those departments are influential in getting in the ârecruitsâ they want too.
A case in point: National Figure Skating Champion Nathan Chen was rejected by Harvard last year, not because he was not great because Harvard does not have a figure skating team.
