WHY are standardized tests getting pushed aside by GPA and "class rigor"?

Applying to College
1

<p>Example A: Student A goes to a private academy. He/She takes multiple AP classes, and recieves A's in all of them. Student A achieves AP scores of 3's and 4's. At the end of his/her High School career, Student A graduates in the top 2% of the class with a GPA of 4.3. However, he/she achieves only a 1950 on the SAT's.</p>

<p>Example B: Student B goes to a public school. He/She takes the four available AP classes, and recieves B's and C's in all of them. Student B achieves AP scores of mostly 5's. At the end of his/her High School career, Student B graduates in the top 15% of the class with a GPA of 3.9. However, he/she receives a 2200 on the SAT's.</p>

<p>Student B has clearly taken harder courses. However, both students took their respective classes at the "AP" level, and student A received higher class grades. According to college admissions offices, student A would be a better choice. Why would GPA be valued more than STANDARDIZED test scores?</p>

<p>How can you argue that Student A's strong GPA and class rank are a better indicator of intelligence than Student B's strong (STANDARDIZED) SAT scores? Student A has clearly participated in a school that is FAR easier than student B's.</p>

2

<p>It’s not that simple. Colleges definitely look at your high school’s difficulty compared with other high schools and looks at your performance at that level. However, the thing with standardized tests is that they mostly measure APTITUDE (SAT Is) while GPA tells colleges what you have done already. GPA is accumulated over 4 years while the standardized test is something done over a few hours. Lastly, despite Student B’s stellar performance on the SATs, there are invariably better students with both high SAT scores and high GPAs at his/her school.</p>

3

<p>Because standardized scores are not the be all or end all of who you are. There would be a lot fewer anxiety attacks if people realized that a single score doesn’t get you into an elite school.</p>

4

<p>Because it’s complex, but all B’s and C’s reflect a whole year and the person and their ability as a whole as opposed to a single test.</p>

5

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<p>Colleges are not only looking for students who take hard courses, but they are also looking for those who excel. Student takes harder courses, but do not excel in those courses. Different colleges put different weight on standardized exams. There are many different factors played when a student is writing standardized exams. Some students are nervous and completely freaked out. Some just cannot stand spending four hours writing an exam. (Warning: this is unacceptable to some of the admission officers because in universities, many exams last hours.) Some colleges take standardized exams as grain of salt. It really depends. :)</p>

6

<p>If you get full marks and have a 2.0 GPA it demonstrates a severe lack of effort.</p>

<p>AP classes have more rigor. If you can take them and excel in them, then it demonstrates readyness for college.</p>

<p>I don’t know how likely it is for a B/C student to get 5s on all his/her AP tests. The only way this happens is if said student is a genius and in this case, it demonstrates a severe lack of effort.</p>

7

<p>Most universities have the luxury of picking both high GPA and SAT. I think that scores count more than the adcoms want to let on and less than the students freak out about. They are worth something because they show your aptitude, not your work ethic. Of course, colleges would rather have both.</p>

8

<p>Well, it depends somewhat on the grading. How exactly does one manage a C/5? Is the C based on assessments of knowledge or a ridiculous 80-percent-notecards-because-everyone-fails-tests-and-our-students-are-simply-entitled-to-A’s policy?
Colleges, of course, have no way of knowing how classes are graded so they will, I assume, mostly assume that lower grades are due to a lack of motivation/care. If a student is interested in learning, he or she should get high grades and do well on that metric compared to classmates, period. It’s not the best solution but is the only practical one given the sheer volume of applicants.</p>

9

<p>A couple reasons off the top of my head.

  1. Not all high schools grade the same way. One high school could be very tough and one can be very lax. For example, one of my friends and former classmates had Fs, Ds, and maybe one C at my school but transferred to another and got all As except for one A-.
  2. Grades have been proven to be better predictors of college success. While I am too lazy to look for studies, I’m sure they are out there. Google it if you want to learn more.</p>
10

<p>OK. So I hauled ass my entire junior year on AP Calc and AP US History. My school is a public school, but is tremendously difficult. I finished with a B- in both classes, and got 5’s on the exams. NOBODY finished the year with anything above a 90 in Calculus. Our teacher was just ridiculously hard.</p>

<p>What I’m trying to say is that if I had taken the course at a different school, my grades could be WAY higher. Not to mention that at my school, AP and Honors classes are weighted the same; they are still only weighted 2 points more than average classes. I just don’t understand how GPA and class rank can count so much- they are unpredictable variables. Standardized tests are the ONLY basis for CONSTANT and FAIR comparison.</p>

11

<p>I think that’s when the recommendation from your guidance counselor comes in, and the profile of your school that is usually provided. It helps place you in context for admissions officers.</p>

12

<p>This fixation on GPA is a uniquely American characteristic; elsewhere in the world, standardized exams are recognized as better measures of aptitude and knowledge. I believe a lot of it has to do with competition – American high schools tend to be very competitive environments due to the emphasis placed on GPA and class rank. American colleges value the ability to reach the top of the pile, whether on the basis of one’s own academic merits or not. Indeed, many top American colleges are not so much academic institutions so much as breeding grounds for nascent leaders. That also explains why ECs and personal qualities are a consideration.</p>

13

<p>That is where everyone seems to mess up, Standardized tests are NOT the only basis for a constant and fair comparison. That is completely wrong, and it doesn’t take into account many factors. </p>

<p>Shmoo792, you don’t have to worry as much as you think you do. Colleges specifically compare you to students within YOUR own school. So if you’re saying no one recieved higher than a 90 percent, then you’re okay.</p>

<p>Sure, top schools look at both, grades and SATs so don’t slack on any of it. But the grades matter more, because they reflect much more about who a person is. The determination, the drive, the willingness to challenge oneself, and ultimately the results. SATs simply don’t do that. As much as everyone calls it an aptitude test, there are serious things you have to learn to do well on the SATs. People who just walk in and score a 2300-2400 are rare. Very rare. And unfortunately, I took the SATs in a room in an inner city school and I walked out there almost positive that I scored one of the highest scores in the room. I sympathized so much with some of the students in that room whom I felt simply would not score as high because of variety of circumstances that have helped me to learn better. The SATs are fair is one of the biggest lies out there.</p>

<p>Sure they are fair if you go to a private school, have a well rounded education in math, verbal, and learn good grammar, don’t have a broken family. Some kids have the money to afford private tutors, while other kids out there are trying to raise money for their family working everyday after school. And you call it fair?</p>

<p>Grades, GPA, and more importantly WHO You are are much more important than flimsy scores. They really are, and it should be praised that they are taking less weight into account on the SATs. I’m saying this with a score of 2250. I’m not saying this because I want to complain, but because I really believe this. </p>

<p>You’ve got to have killer essays, strong recs, etc to prove that you’re a person worthy of the school because you have a strong conscience and will to learn. </p>

<p>You’re seriously telling me that the high scorer on the SATs deserves to go to Harvard more than a kid who worked their but off in high school with good grades, strong community service, and top notch extra curriculars, but a lower SAT score? Not at all.</p>

14

<p>shmoo 792, “Standardized tests are the ONLY basis for CONSTANT and FAIR comparison.” ^^</p>

<p>Sorry, but that’s not true!!! What about the students that do very well in school, BUT for some reason just can’t do well on standardized tests. So, does that mean they should never be considered for admission into college?!! How “FAIR” is that!!! Let me give you an example … My daughter is an “above-average” student at an “above-average” public school. She has taken AP classes; she gets A’s and B’s (one C last year) in all her classes; she’s been a varsity cheerleader for 3 years (going on 4); she has a lot of EC’s and volunteer hours … BUT, she flubbed her ACT tests twice. She just can’t get. For some reason some students, for whatever reasons, just can’t do well on standardized tests. It has NOTHING to do with their academic intellect. It does, however, have a lot to do with the way standardized tests are structured. And more and more colleges are finally realizing this, and are abolishing the ACT/SAT as a part of their admission criteria. There have been NUMEROUS studies that have shown that students that get higher scores on the ACT/SAT tests DO NOT DO ANY BETTER in college than the students that receive lower scores on the same tests!!! And, again, this is why more and more colleges are using the “holisitic method” when deciding whether or not to accept a student for admission.</p>

<p>So, NO, standardized tests are NOT the ONLY basis for CONSTANT and FAIR comparison!!!</p>

15

<p>The major difference is the rank. There is a huge difference between 2% and 15% rank. You are judged by comparing you to your peers.</p>

16

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<p>Actually, as far as I know that’s not true. What IS true is that the correlation between moderate differences in SAT scores correlates fairly weakly with undergrad GPA performance.</p>

<p>Most of these studies are based on tracking the performance of admitted students. That tends to introduce bias in a few ways. First, applicants with really low scores aren’t often admitted and hence aren’t part of the tracking pool. </p>

<p>Second, the studies I have seen haven’t adjusted for rigor of coursework. I.e., they count an “A” in English Comp the same as an “A” in fourth-semester Differential Equations. Weaker students will tend to avoid courses that expose those weaknesses. E.g., if you didn’t score well on the SAT-M, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll choose to major in Math or Engineering.</p>

<p>Finally, at most schools the selection process evaluates factors other than standardized test scores, and admits those with lower scores who have shown strength in other ways, e.g., high GPA, superb personal accomplishments, etc. All of these factors tend to minimize the potential correlation of SAT/ACT scores with undergrad GPA. Indeed, if a student with a low SAT score figured out how to get a high GPA in high school, it’s not unreasonable to expect that the student might be able to do the same in college.</p>

<p>All of these factors, IMO, lead to a weak correlation between standardized test scores of admitted freshmen and four-year undergrad GPA.</p>

<p>I think if you took a thousand completely random high school seniors and threw them into a college where they all took the identical rigorous coursework and were graded on a bell curve, the standardized test/GPA correlation would be a lot stronger than is observed in actual practice.</p>

<p>Having said that, though, I’m certainly not in favor of overweighting SAT/ACT scores in the admissions process. If a university wants its students to be the leaders of tomorrow, the ability to score well on one test is going to be a very weak predictor.</p>

17

<p>What I don’t get is why some colleges don’t look at the writing section of the SAT which actually measures the ability to communicate by having real people judge someone else’s real words. Such skills are some of the most important to later functioning in college and in the real world.</p>

18

<p>Actually, much of the writing section is spent pondering obscure grammatical rules. The essay is only worth 1/3 of the grade. That entire section needs some revision.</p>

19

<p>Sunday, July 20, 2008
WFU makes SAT/ACT scores optional
Updated: 05/28/2008 07:47 AM
By: Wes Wilson </p>

<p>Wake Forest Drops SAT
News 14 Carolina’s Bob Costner has more on how the university reached its decision.</p>

<p>WINSTON-SALEM – Wake Forest University will no longer require prospective students to submit SAT or ACT test scores in order to be accepted into the school and have instead made the test scores optional.</p>

<p>The new application process will be in place for the freshman class of 2009, and Wake Forest administrators said the move makes it the only top 30 university, as ranked by U.S. News and World Report, with a standardized test-optional policy.</p>

<p>Wake Forest hopes the new policy will lead to a more diverse student body.</p>

<p>“By making the SAT and ACT optional, we hope to broaden the applicant pool and increase access at Wake Forest for groups of students who are currently underrepresented at selective universities,” Martha Allman, director of admissions at Wake Forest, said in a news release.</p>

<p>The university said it still plans to allow students to submit their SAT and ACT scores if they choose to, but the new policy simply allows a student to omit their scores if they feel it does not “accurately reflect their academic abilities.”</p>

<p>Wake Forest made the move after research showed that standardized tests favor wealthier students.</p>

<p>“WHILE MANY TOP-TIER UNIVERSITIES ARE INCREASING THEIR RELIANCE ON STANDARDIZED TESTING IN THE ADMISSION PROCESS, RECENT RESEARCH SUGGEST THAT STANDARDIZED TESTS ARE NOT VALUABLE PREDICTORS OF COLLEGE SUCCESS,” Wake Forest Provost Jill Tiefenthaler said, adding that the move has the full support of the Board of Trustees and the school’s deans.</p>

<p>Julie Cunningham, a guidance counselor at R.J. Reynolds High School in Winston-Salem for nine years, said the move could benefit some students, adding that Wake Forest University did their research before making the switch.</p>

<p>“One thing that impressed me was that there were several private liberal arts college in the northeast [that moved to this model,] so they have a pretty good collection of data,” Cunningham said. “I think Wake looked at them carefully and what the results have been.</p>

<p>“There’s very little difference between students who report their scores and those who don’t.” </p>

<p>West Forsyth High School guidance counselor Cindy Zimmerman agreed. She said there are some excellent students who might not do well on standardized tests, but she said given Wake Forest’s lofty academic reputation, “students who typically apply to Wake Forest already do fairly well on standardized tests.”</p>

<p>University admissions officials said they will now make enrollment decisions based on high school curriculum and grades, combined with written essays, extracurricular activities and evidence of character and talent. As part of this new philosophy, the admissions office will now strongly encourage personal interviews as part of the process.</p>

<p>Students should not throw their SAT or ACT study booklets away just yet though.</p>

<p>“I certainly would continue to urge students to take the test because they are going to be applying to more than one university,” Cunningham said. </p>

<p>Wake Forest hopes the new policy will encourage students who excelled in high school but had low test scores to apply.</p>

<p>“I don’t know that there would be a great number of students who would not put their scores on the application [who already planned to go to Wake Forest.] It might open Wake up to new students who hadn’t thought about going there,” Zimmerman said.</p>

<p>“I do think they will accept students who don’t report those scores but I certainly think they will be judicious in making those choices,” Cunningham added.</p>

<p>As for the university itself, Wake Forest officials said they think this will remove one more obstacle that low-income students have to overcome to be successful. </p>

<p>“[This study] presents a compelling argument that reliance on the SAT and other standardized tests for admission is a major barrier to access for many worthy students,” Tiefenthaler said. “By taking this step at Wake Forest, we want to remove that barrier.”</p>

<p>This year, Wake Forest received more than 9,000 applications and expects to enroll about 1,200 freshmen this fall. That includes five students from R.J. Reynolds High School and a similar number from West Forsyth High School</p>

20

<p>The Writing Section is actually quite ridiculous with all the grammar misnomers. The most important part of that is the essay, which is only 1/3 of the whole thing. </p>

<p>I actually think the basic math, and the critical reading are more essential in terms of life skills. Not that I’m a huge fan of the SATs overall anyways.</p>