Hey guys. So I’m looking at top U.K. colleges like Edinburgh, UCL, ICL, King’s, etc, and it seems to me that these schools don’t seem to be as well known, or as respected as other U.S. schools like UMichigan and the Ivies or whatnot. Despite the fact these schools are ranked some of the best in the world. Sometimes they are even ranked better than the Ivies or other top 20 American schools. Yet not many employers or people in general seem to know about these schools. Does anyone have more info as to how these schools are viewed in the U.S. and why there isn’t as much respect and recognition for them?
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Combination of hometown advantage and lack of exposure- it’s the same the other way around: international students applying to the US tend to apply to the tiny number of familiar names.
It is really difficult for people from other countries to move to the US (and vv, btw): to get a work visa the hiring company has to apply for you, demonstrating that there is nobody else in the US who can do that job (or that you meet certain other specific criteria). There are 65K temporary work visas (good for max 6 years) available annually and about 140K permanent.
The number of US students going to the UK is increasing, but is still low for lots of reasons: US students are spoilt for choice across the US; the tight focus on one subject doesn’t work for students who aren’t already sure of what they want to do in college; the ‘college experience’ is very different; the UK system prioritizes testing over continuing assessment; and there is no (meaningful) financial aid, which means your family needs to be ready to spend $40-50k/year.
UK unis are increasingly going to US college recruitment fairs (with lots of Hogwarts-y buildings & robes!), and joining the Common App, so over time familiarity will build.
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The US is a large insular country separated from the rest of the Anglosphere (besides Canada) by two huge oceans with the biggest economy in the world and highest concentration of top unis in the world. So they don’t know of UK unis below the Oxbridge tier because they don’t need to.
And it’s not as if Americans don’t know of any UK unis: Nearly all educated Americans know of and respect Oxbridge and many of the LSE. But how many Brits know of/respect the American equivalents of the schools you named, like UCLA, UMich, GTech, UT-Austin, UCSD, and UW-Madison? (Well, maybe UCLA)
Now imagine if the difference in size was reversed (UK 5 times bigger than the US). Or, say, back a 120 years ago (when the US was already bigger than the UK though the UK could still draw on the resources of its empire). Would any Brits even have heard of American unis like JHU, Cornell, UMich, and Cal?
“Would any Brits even have heard of American unis like JHU, Cornell, UMich, and Cal?”
Cal is one of the very few American universities that is extremely well known and has a reputation in the UK (actually one that is even greater than its reputation in the US), partly from featuring in movies (eg The Graduate), partly from science (lots of elements in the periodic table). When I was in college 30 years ago it was better known and more highly regarded than Stanford (some would say it still is for math).
For my parents there were 3 American universities they could name without prompting: Harvard, Yale and Berkeley. With prompting they would probably acknowledge having heard of MIT, Stanford (though they wouldn’t know which coast it’s on) and Caltech, maybe UCLA (but thinking of that as a posh community college in Hollywood).
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Hmmm, this thread is very similar to another recent thread on the exact same topic.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22703502#Comment_22703502
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@Twoin18, that’s fair. By mid-20th-century, a few of the top American unis would have become known across the pond.
But are british unis well known across Europe then, or specifically just in Britian?
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Why not? Because they’yre there and we’re here.
There’s plenty of recognition and respect for the schools that deserve it, among folks well versed in program strengths.
Same in the US. Unless you live near some college or a friend went to some particular school, most people can’t id more than a few colleges here or their strengths and instead rely on rankings schemes.
Remember, “British” or “UK” generally refers to the Commonwealth (including England,) while “English” would generally refer to schools in England. And if anyone is so curious about British unis, they can go ahead and research the strengths of various programs. Same as you would for US colleges.
@CollegeFreak9488, from your multiple posts I see a lot of concern about ‘prestige’. Here’s the thing about prestige: different kinds matter to different people in different places for different reasons.
If your focus is ‘what is going to impress my friends & neighbors’, they are likely to have a handful of names that are the ones they are impressed by.
That is true for all people in all places: most people can only name a handful of top brands of anything- and colleges are brands. Inside the US very few people can name all 8 Ivy league colleges off the top of their head, and outside the US most people haven’t even heard of the Ivy league, much less most of the colleges in it. It’s only in academically prestige oriented corners (like CC!- that people swoon over the label ‘Ivy’.
If your focus is ‘what is going to impress potential employers’ it will partly depend on what field you are going into. For example, Investment banking / management consultancies have a rep for loving a handful of brand names, and filling in around the edges with the go-getters from a slightly bigger pool. In the US, however, most employers are more impressed by what you have done during undergrad than by the name of your university. A State U with experience relevant to the role will beat out Fancy U grad with less relevant experience. And, in much of the US (and the world), grads from Nearby U will beat out Far Away U grads.
If your focus is ‘what is going to impress grad school’, with a few exceptions it is your fit for the course that matters (experience/research, coursework/grades, test scores, LoRs, PS), not the name of your undergrad.
And if it’s that you are hoping that getting into a fancy name college will make you feel good about yourself, there are other, better ways of building self-esteem. There are so many variables involved in admissions to highly selective colleges that admission or rejection is not a good referendum on the value of you or what you have achieved.
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@collegemom3717 agreed, in entirety.
Perhaps — and this is a big maybe — attending Big Name U is advantageous when a hiring manager/grad school ad com is looking at two viable candidates with very similar profiles, one from Big Name U and the other from Local U. Maybe they prefer Big Name U in that case. The probability of this ever really happening in the real world, however, is slim. There are many ways for an applicant to differentiate themselves from other applicants.
@CollegeFreak9488 The lack of name brand recognition depends on who you’re speaking to. Academics will know of the big names in the U.K., and vice versa. Partly because it’s their job to know. But ‘lay persons’ won’t because they have no need to. Most lay persons in the US don’t usually know which schools are Ivy (plenty of people think MIT and Stanford are), and which aren’t. Some don’t know of non-ivy schools that are still excellent (UChicago, Caltech, Williams). It just depends on who you’re asking/speaking with. The top U.K. and US universities are academically excellent, though they offer very different types of experiences.
Most ordinary folks in the US know the names of the 50 states. IF you just want name recognition, most can name the Univ of (state name) or telll you what state Univ of Alabama is in.
@collegemom3717 your post is so solid that it could be it’s own thread.
wow, thanks @lookingforward! 