Why attend public univ as out-of-state student?

College Search & Selection
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<p>*While Alabama is a total bargain for high-stats OOS kids, I wonder about the fit. Will a top student from the North really fit in at a school in the deep South where 75% of the kids got under 1840 SAT or 29 ACT, and 40% were below the top 25% of their HS class? *</p>

<p>First of all, I suggest you visit the Bama forum here and read the many, many, many posts from parents/students who come from all over the US (including the NE) that do not find Bama to be 'deep south" at all. They have not found some kind of culture clash or shock.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>40% were below the top 25% of their HS class</p>

<p>That is such a “glass half empty” critique…and also is similar to many good, respectable publics. </p>

<p>I don’t place a lot on top 10% or similar because those stats can be very misleading anyway…private schools’ top 50% can be better than a public’s top 10%…or a student who takes many harder courses, may end up with a lower ranking. </p>

<p>These are Bama’s numbers:</p>

<h1>43% in top 10th of graduating class</h1>

<h1>60% in top quarter of graduating class</h1>

<p>35% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
17% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
16% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49</p>

<p>so…about 52% had GPAs above a 3.5.</p>

<p>Again, these numbers are not unusual for a state school.</p>

<p>Michigan State
36% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
31% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
20% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49</p>

<p>UDel’s numbers
40% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
23% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74 </p>

<p>And…for state schools, it really isn’t wise to say things like: “75% of the kids got under 1840 SAT or 29 ACT”…because, guess what??? …that would include schools like:</p>

<p>Indiana University where 75% got under an ACT 29
Michigan State where 75% got under an ACT 28
U Delaware where 75% got under an ACT 29
U Conn where 75% got under an ACT 29</p>

<p>I could list more…a LOT more…and I highly doubt that you would be writing such disparaging remarks about those schools. :)</p>

<p>BTW…Bama doesn’t superscore the SAT, so that could negatively affect its reporting numbers. It just takes the highest single sitting.</p>

<p>Lastly, and this is a VERY common mistake that people make when looking at flagships and other state schools…</p>

<p>People often wrongly think that “high stats students” are somehow evenly spread out amongst all majors. THEY ARE NOT . At many/most schools, those with high scores are largely found in about 6-10 majors…engineering, math, physics, bio, chem, finance, econ, and a few others.</p>

<p>So you should NOT look at a schools’ score ranges to give you ANY sense of what the average scores would be in these high stats students’ classrooms. The STEM majors will have a higher “median ACT” then the university at large. Therefore, a high stats student wouldn’t likely be going to class with a bunch of classmates whose ACTs are modest.</p>

<p>Who cares what some kids in some easy major across campus are doing or what their ACT scores are? How does that affect a high stats kid in a STEM major or other challenging major??? Those modest-stats kids may be majoring in something that is so right-brained that a test score has no significance.</p>

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<p>Too late to add to my above post…</p>

<p>[Tuscaloosa</a> named most livable city in America | al.com](<a href=“http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/06/tuscaloosa_named_most_livable.html]Tuscaloosa”>Tuscaloosa named most livable city in America - al.com)</p>

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<p>Depends. If you have significant financial need, and your D is accepted to a school that meets full need without resorting to lots of loans, AND the school’s interpretation of need matches yours, then yes, the private can be cheaper than a UC. Or if your D’s stats mean she’s academically very strong relative to the rest of the applicant pool so that she gets merit aid then yes, another school can be cheaper than a UC. </p>

<p>Or it might not work out that way. Lots of D1’s friends will be attending UCs next year because they weren’t offered enough financial aid at “meets full need” privates to make those privates affordable. Or because they felt that the UC was a better fit for them than a school that would make a big merit offer. </p>

<p>Your D may well find some OOS publics where applying makes sense. If a kid is even mildly enamored of U Pitt or Alabama or some other rolling admit public, then why not apply in August or September and have an acceptance in hand by October? </p>

<p>U of O was initially on D1’s list: she’d visited and liked the school. Then last fall I checked on COA for OOS versus the UCs. At that time, U of O listed a rack rate COA of $38k, or $8k more a year than the most expensive UC COA. I like U of O, but it wasn’t going to offer enough of extra value to D1 for us to pay that extra money just so she could live in Eugene, and it didn’t look like she’d be a good bet for getting any merit money. On the other hand, U Maryland College Park was on her final list, since the school did offer academic programs that were a good fit for her, even if no merit money was offered.</p>

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<p>Oldest was OOS for UCONN, high % of our need was met. ('03-'07) </p>

<p>It was an excellent choice for her as she is very sports-oriented & she got a great education. She still follows college basketball & college football. Living in the Boston area, she is always invited to UCONN alum events like watching a big game in a sports bar etc. Her own state flagship could not have provided her with the Rah-Rah experience that she desired. That was her reason for going public OOS. Our other 3 went to privates.</p>

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<p>Not to make light of the situation, but a large part of Tuscaloosa is quite unlivable these days. </p>

<p>But I digress. Our prayers go out to those folks. Back to the topic. Mom2, those schools you listed are all reputable schools. But, I still wonder if most high stats, Ivy-caliber kids would feel like they’re settling for any of them. Sell me on Alabama. Besides the great merit aid (certainly a huge factor), why should an MIT-caliber kid from a heavily Jewish/Asian town up North consider Bama for engineering?</p>

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<p>It depends on where in the “up North” the student resides. If the safeties are normally the in-state public universities, but Alabama is better or cheaper (after non-loan aid / scholarships) than those in the student’s state of residency, then it may be a better safety than the in-state public universities.</p>

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<p>'Bama could be cheaper after merit scholarships, but as for “better”? The list of Northern states where the in-state public flagship is “better” (as rated by US News) than 'Bama would include: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Washington State, and Wisconsin. California, too, if you want to include it in the “North” on grounds it was on the Union side in the Civil War. New York’s SUNY College of Environmental Science ties with 'Bama, and SUNY Binghamton is just one notch behind. But I guess that leaves most of New England, as well as the Great Plains and Rocky Mountain states.</p>

<p>Massachusetts should be ashamed of itself.</p>

<p>But that’s based on the general US News ranking. If you look only at engineering, then Colorado, Kansas, Massachusetts, Missouri (never sure whether that’s North), Nebraska, New York, and Oregon all jump ahead of 'Bama. That leaves a handful of small-population New England, Great Plains, and Rocky Mountain states looking up at Alabama as a better academic choice than their state flagship.</p>

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<p>bclintock not sure what your beef is w/ Alabama, and I have no horse in the race except that it is a school that my rising senior is considering.</p>

<p>I hate to see you disregard very valid arguments that others have posted regarding average ACT, etc. I think that Mom2collegekids did a great job refuting your numbers…and yet you continue. Hmmmm I may have to ask if you are an AU student? lol </p>

<p>Alabama is one of the fastest upcoming university’s in the US. They have more NMF/NMSF than any other school in the US. Take a look at the numbers. Do you really think that these high performing kids are all her just because of merit money? The Honors College and dorms are amazing. Research opportunities for undergrads are abundent and Southern hospitality is a very real thing. Their endowment is huge, and they are not afraid to use some of their money to build and imporove campus and to offer merit money to OOS students. </p>

<p>We are looking at many of the schools that you mentioned above, and have visited almost all of them. Have to say that Alabama is at the top of my very high acheiving daughters list…and it is not just because of the money. (although that helps! :wink: )</p>

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<p>As a college football fan and not a student I have to say anyone who likes football should be thrilled to attend Alabama because they will win at least one more national championship in the next 4 years if Saban stays. Nothing works like those happy feelings!</p>

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<p>LOL texaspg…when we were on campus we went to the Bear Bryant museum…football is a religion on that campus! Much like in Texas…sad day at UT when Iowa State beat them last Fall. (disclosure: I have a DD at Iowa State and my family is all from Texas!)</p>

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<p>@bclintock: SUNY Binghamton just one notch behind 'Bama? Binghamton is an outstanding school, considered a public Ivy, easily better than most of the flagships you listed.</p>

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<p>buzymom - I dont see UT losing again to Iowa State before your D leaves college!</p>

<p>I suspect we will be seeing UT or Oklahoma playing against Alabama in the national championship in the next 3-4 years. Let the horns roll!</p>

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<p>Quote:
Tuscaloosa named most livable city in America | al.com
Not to make light of the situation, but a large part of Tuscaloosa is quite unlivable these days.</p>

<p>ahh…but this isn’t true, either. I have walked the damaged areas in T-town. I arrived the day after the Tornadoes and stayed for a week. While it is a tragedy for those who have been affected/displaced, the large majority of the city was unaffected (physically) by the Tornadoes. Thank goodness!!! :slight_smile: Of course, the entire city was affected emotionally by the damage and tragic loss of life.</p>

<p>You may not realize this, but T-town is TWICE the size of Manhattan. The damaged area is - percentage wise - not a large part of the city. Think of it more in terms of Ground Zero vs the entire Manhattan Island. </p>

<p>Originally Posted by Chardo
Besides the great merit aid (certainly a huge factor), why should an MIT-caliber kid from a heavily Jewish/Asian town up North consider Bama for engineering? </p>

<p>first of all, you’ve changed the discussion. The discussion wasn’t narrowly focused on Jewish/Asian students who would be considering MIT. That’s a new focus.</p>

<p>I will refresh your memory, since you seem to be trying to “off-beam” me. The topic was why kids may choose an OOS public, and I gave the example of parents “doing the math” and realizing that (with the right stats), their child could go to a flagship instead of Ill State or U Ill Chicago for a much lower cost. </p>

<p>But…since I’m not the least bit of afraid of any challenge, I will take on your latest question. :)</p>

<p>first of all, Bama has been steadily increasing its Jewish numbers. While still not as high as Bama may like them to be, Bama believes that it currently has about 750 - 800 Jewish students. Because of this, the campus now has a larger Hillel and a brand new Temple on campus.<br>
[Temple</a> holds dedication ceremony for UA location | TuscaloosaNews.com](<a href=“http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20100809/NEWS/100809670/1007?Title=Temple-holds-dedication-ceremony-for-UA-location]Temple”>http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20100809/NEWS/100809670/1007?Title=Temple-holds-dedication-ceremony-for-UA-location)</p>

<p>Hillel - [Hillel</a> - University of Alabama](<a href=“http://www.bamahillel.org/]Hillel”>http://www.bamahillel.org/)</p>

<p>Bama also offers a minor in Judaic Studies and is one of the few schools in the SE to do so. [Department</a> of Religious Studies](<a href=“http://religion.ua.edu/judaicstudiesminor.html]Department”>http://religion.ua.edu/judaicstudiesminor.html)</p>

<p>As for Asian students. Bama does want more Asian students as well. :slight_smile: Bama currently has about 2,500 Asian students. That said, and I don’t mean to stereotype, but I think many accept that many Asian students choose to major in STEM majors. Therefore, while the Asian numbers are not high when compared to the school population at large, Asians will feel more “represented” if they are majoring in STEM majors.</p>

<p>Bama resides in the state of Alabama which has the second largest research park in the nation - Cummings Research Park. *One of the world’s leading science and technology business parks, Cummings Research Park is a model for transforming research into business success. With a vibrant mixture of Fortune 500 companies, local and international high-tech enterprises, US space and defense agencies, a thriving business incubator, and competitive higher-education institutions, Cummings Research Park (CRP) is the center of attention for research and technology. *<br>
[Huntsville</a> Alabama USA - Economic Development](<a href=“http://www.huntsvillealabamausa.com/new_exp/new_crp_toc.html]Huntsville”>http://www.huntsvillealabamausa.com/new_exp/new_crp_toc.html)
[Cummings</a> Research Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummings_Research_Park]Cummings”>Cummings Research Park - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>So, a STEM major attending school in this state is going to have access to research, internships, and co-ops during the academic years and likely immediate employment upon graduation.</p>

<p>As for ANY student who might be wanting to go to MIT or other elite…(which again, was not the topic of this thread)…that is fine to want to go to an elite, but if family finances will not allow that (EFC unaffordable), then sometimes going to good school that will be affordable thru merit is not only a good idea, but may be the only affordable option. Then…going to an elite as a fully-funded grad student could be a later option.</p>

<p>You may not realize this, but there are many kids from divorced homes who don’t qualify for aid because of NCP income, but the NCP won’t pay. :frowning: And, there are many people with high incomes who just can’t pay $55k per year and they don’t qualify for aid. </p>

<p>Another reason to choose a school like Bama if you’re a high stats kid… If you are pre-med, then Bama could make a lot of economic sense. You could save your college fund for med school, and go to undergrad for a very low cost. Bama has a high US MD med school acceptance rate (per the Director of Pre-health advising) of about 85% …and he reports that the acceptance rate is even higher for OOS kids. </p>

<p>Bama is one of the FEW publics that does Committee Letters for its med school applicants. As you know, often only privates will write Committee Letters, and those CLs make a very positive impression to med schools. (note: I am talking about acceptance to US MD med schools…not DO schools or Caribbean med schools.)</p>

<p>So…anymore questions? Bring 'em on. :)</p>

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Is there a source for that? I could only find the schools with the most National Merit Scholars. Alabama does perform rather well and is one of the few schools to collect over 100 scholars. </p>

<p>Chicago 268
Harvard 261
USC 250
Northwestern 227
Oklahoma 225
Yale 224
WUStL 215
Princeton 192
Vanderbilt 188
Texas A&M 177
Rice 169
UNC Chapel Hill 160
Florida 157
Stanford 142
MIT 136
Auburn 134
Alabama 128
Penn 125
Georgia Tech 121
Duke 101
Minnesota 101
Arizona State 100</p>

<p>Blue schools do not award NM scholarships.</p>

<p>Source: National Merit Scholarship Corporation 2009-2010 Annual Report</p>

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<p>oops…need to make a major correction above. Bama doesn’t have that many Asian students. I will get the right numbers. Sorry. </p>

<p>*@bclintock: SUNY Binghamton just one notch behind 'Bama? Binghamton is an outstanding school, considered a public Ivy, easily better than most of the flagships you listed. *</p>

<p>Personally, I’ve been to Bing, and while it’s a fine school, I wouldn’t choose it over Bama. Bing is UGLY…sorry, but it’s true. lol And, Bama #79 is ranked a bit ahead of Bing #86. I believe that Bama would provide a more full college life experience…and a gorgeous campus. </p>

<p>Bing as a “public ivy”…hmmm…not really…it was listed as “runner up”…the public ivies listed were: * College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia), * Miami University (Oxford, Ohio), * University of California (campuses as of 1985)[6], * University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), * University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, * University of Texas at Austin, * University of Vermont (Burlington), * University of Virginia (Charlottesville)</p>

<p>Even still, I don’t know why U Colorado is listed. It’s ranked #86…and Miami Ohio is ranked #79 (same as Bama). That said, I know that rankings weren’t the only criteria. </p>

<p>I know that past rankings for Bama’s engineering have not been high (#98). It’s strongest areas are currently Aerospace & Aeronautical Engineering and Materials Engineering, but it does fine in other areas of engineering as well. </p>

<p>That said, I strongly believe that you will see many of Bama’s engineering numbers rising in the near future (I believe increases have been occurring in the last couple of years). The school has a brand new mega-sized Science and Engineering Complex with the goal that the College of Engineeringwill be a nationally-recognized leader in student-centered education, research and innovation. . </p>

<p>The COE has significantly increased the number of engineering students and these students have a higher avg ACT than before. (This increase is the result of offering these huge merit scholarships for high stats students for the last several years.). The fully accredited College of Engineering has nearly 3,100 students and more than 100 faculty. In the last eight years, students in the College have been recognized 11 times as USA Today All-USA College Academic Team members, four received Goldwater scholars, seven received Hollings scholars and one received the Portz scholar.</p>

<p>Bama currently has over 1 million square feet in Engineering buildings (having recently added 440,000 square feet of new labs/classrooms/equipment…and will complete an additional 210,000 square feet in a few weeks. Phase IV is breaking ground which will add another 220,000 square feet by 2013. </p>

<p>If you check the federal earmarks for 2010, Bama received the most money of any university in the US…The 2010 and prior years earmarks for Bama were because of the goal to build this huge Science and Engineering Complex. [University</a> of Alabama tops federal earmarks list | TuscaloosaNews.com](<a href=“http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20100430/news/100429415]University”>http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20100430/news/100429415)</p>

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<p>Bama doesn’t claim to have the most NMFs in the country. It knows that elite schools have more and schools like OU have more. Auburn had more than Bama for the first time last year, but Auburn has panicked and now has decided to make its future NMF scholarships “competitive.”</p>

<p>Bama is #6 for publics with NMFs. That’s quite amazing considering that you’d think UCLA and Cal would have more…and you’d think that UVA, UMich and UTexas would have more.</p>

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<p>unfortunately UTexas stopped offering NM scholarships last year.</p>

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<p>The numbers of National Merit Scholars by college are very misleading. There are about 15,000 National Merit Finalists every year. Of these, about 8,400 receive some kind of scholarship based on their National Merit standing, either from the National Merit Scholarship Corporation, from corporate sponsors (usually for children of employees), or from the colleges or universities they attend. The numbers of National Merit Scholars by college reflect only those Finalists who have gotten a scholarship. But any school, e.g., Alabama, can inflate that figure by awarding a scholarship to any Finalist who enrolls. There could easily be as many or more National Merit Finalists attending a Michigan or a UC Berkeley, but since they don’t award scholarships to every National Merit Finalist they get in the door, they have fewer “National Merit Scholars” (i.e., scholarship winners).</p>

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<p>I’m just reporting on the US News ranking which places SUNY Binghamton at #86 nationally, actually 2 slots behind Alabama which is tied with 5 other schools at #79. US News ranks Binghamton as the 39th-best public university in the country. You are, of course, free to dispute their rankings. </p>

<p>I’ve heard some positive things about Binghamton, but a common complaint among academics I know in the SUNY system is that the system as a whole is chronically underfunded and lacks a true “flagship” because the NY State legislative appropriations process is so dominated by localist pork-barrel politics and logrolling that the money is basically used as a big political slush fund, spread out across the system to help the legislative leaders cobble together legislative majorities on the bills they really care about. It was designed that way and it’s operated that way ever since. Or so I’m told.</p>

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<p>I am going to an out of state school for a lot of reasons:</p>

<ul>
<li>It is much better academically than my state flagship</li>
<li>I will have better internship/job opportunities than in my home state</li>
<li>I may want to live in the area after graduation</li>
<li>The cost after scholarships is actually a little lower than in my state</li>
<li>There is no school this large and no city this large in my state</li>
</ul>

<p>I mostly liked public schools more than private ones, and the few privates I looked at were much more expensive.</p>

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<p>(“that many” = 2,500 in post 33)</p>

<p>[2010-2011</a> Common Data Set | OIRA](<a href=“http://oira.ua.edu/d/content/reports/2010-2011-common-data-set]2010-2011”>http://oira.ua.edu/d/content/reports/2010-2011-common-data-set) says that Alabama had 267 Asian (non-Hispanic/Latino) students, out of a total of 24,882 students. Of the possible Asian students, there were also 136 two or more races (non-Hispanic/Latino) students, 57 race/ethnicity unknown students, 596 Hispanic/Latino students, and 478 nonresident alien students. So a maximum possible 1,534 Asian students (if all students in all of these categories are Asian), but the actual number is almost certainly much fewer.</p>