Why choose a Claremont College over UCLA or Cal?

College Search & Selection
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You might also say that size and prestige of an undergrad school don't really need to be considered if you realistically plan on attending a big-name grad school.

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<p>It certainly does matter. You will be spending four years there, after all. Undergraduate is an experience in itself, not just a stepping stone to graduate school.</p>

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A Mudder trying to get a job in publishing might not be able to rely on a network of HMC alums, but within his degree area will be another story (still not comparable to a UC, I realize, but nonetheless an improvement).

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<p>You pointed out the problem I see with attending Harvey Mudd: within his degree area. It's a well-known fact that Harvey Mudd is very good for engineering. However, it lacks strong departments across the boards. Notice how someone else on this thread said many students from HMC get into CalTech, MIT, and Stanford? All strong engineering schools. What if a student gets into Harvey Mudd and decides that he doesn't want to do engineering anymore? It happens all the time as engineering is a tough subject. MIT students often switch to business after doing engineering. With big schools like UCLA or Berkeley, there are so many majors and offerings, and with most departments being very strong it's hard to go wrong.</p>

<p>Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to bash Harvey Mudd. I think it's a very good school. I'm just trying to show the advantages of attending a large university with a variety of offerings.</p>

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<p>Squiggle22, you are a perfect example of somebody who knows what you want and kept all your options open. Kudos to your diligence in evaluating your personal interests and mapping out an applications strategy that gave you what you wanted at the best possible price. I recognize, from personal experience, that the process you undertook to research your options was not entirely easy nor quick. I appreciate how you've established both short- and long-term goals and factored these goals into your college selection process by digging deep into understanding how individual colleges would help you along in your path. With such insightful thinking, I know you will do well in making the transition from SI to Pomona. Good luck to you! :)</p>

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<p>V,</p>

<p>Your comments about HMC are valid, although I think it depends on the individual student -- that is, whether s/he buys into the "general engineering" orientation of HMC. I think it's truly a personal preference. My next door neighbor's daughter (somebody I've known since she was 3 years old) was accepted at HMC, as well as UCB and UCLA (in their Engineering schools), and also Cal Poly - SLO. She was rejected at Stanford and CalTech. She agonized over her decision until the end of April (she's very logical and also analytical). When she finally decided on UCB, she felt that her options were just a wee bit better at UCB vs. HMC. It's all about trade-offs.</p>

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<p>"Rocket, you list of advantages and disadvantages is pretty biased. There are plenty more disadvantages to going to a small college, such as a muchsmaller offering of majors and courses, a much smaller alumni network, much smaller resources, and a far less diverse student body.</p>

<p>And for that matter, a much smaller offering of student organizations and activities."-Ray</p>

<p>Of course my pros and cons are biased. I made it clear that I am a student at HMC. Let the OP piece together their truths. I can only offer my vantage point... it annoys me that you expect any different.</p>

<p>Not necessarily true regarding the course and activities offerings. As a consortium, the resources of the 5C's are mind boggling. Perhaps we don't offer very specific engineering majors or science majors, but that does not mean the classes don't exist. Have you ever looked at the 5C course catalogue? It is absolutely enormous. Furthermore, the number and support for student groups on the 5Cs are subtantial. You would expect a university that has 15,000 students...but instead, we have cooperative colleges that total 5,000 students.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd offers many technical classes. If you cannot find it at HMC, you can probably find it at Pomona or CMC. In terms of non-technical classes, the other 4 colleges really make up in this department.</p>

<p>If you go to Harvey Mudd and you decide engineering (or the sciences/math) are not for you, you can do one of two things:</p>

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<li><p>Transfer to another Claremont College. I'm sure it is not too incredibly difficult to do this esspecially going from HMC somewhere else.</p></li>
<li><p>Do an off-campus major at one of the other Claremont Colleges. This, however, still requires that you complete your technical core for graduation.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Because Claremont McKenna and Pomona care more about undergraduates.</p>

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<p>I agree with what you said, NorCalDad. This whole entire thread really comes down to personal preference. And yes, it really is about trade-offs. Getting smaller classes and more attention, and lose some options big universities provide. It depends on what the student wants.</p>

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What if a student gets into Harvey Mudd and decides that he doesn't want to do engineering anymore? It happens all the time as engineering is a tough subject. MIT students often switch to business after doing engineering. With big schools like UCLA or Berkeley, there are so many majors and offerings, and with most departments being very strong it's hard to go wrong.

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<p>Yeah, but that presumes that you can actually switch to those other majors and offerings. Viccisitudes, you know all about the 'engineering major trap' at Berkeley (and presumably also at UCLA), where if you're an engineering student at Berkeley and you do poorly, you can't switch majors. Specifically, it is difficult for any student at Berkeley who wants to switch into the College of Letters and Science who doesn't have at least a 3.0. Trust me, there are a LOT of engineering students at Berkeley who have nowhere near a 3.0. Hence, they can't switch into L&S. In fact, they may not even be able to switch WITHIN engineering. All Berkeley engineering majors are impacted, which basically means that if you want to switch from one engineering to another, you have to compete for a spot, and if your grades are not up to snuff, you will be denied the switch. </p>

<p>The point is, to me, the issue is a wash. Sure, people who go to HMC and then find out they don't like engineering are going to have a problem, because HMC doesn't have a whole lot of other majors. But Berkeley engineering students who don't like engineering are going to have a similar problem. If they don't like it, they probably won't do well, and if they don't do well, they can easily find themselves in the major-trap. It doesn't matter if Berkeley has a huge variety of majors if you're not allowed to switch into any of them. </p>

<p>In fact, in one respect, HMC may actually offer MORE variety than Berkeley does. For example, a HMC student who does poorly can still switch majors, including switching to a natural science or to a different engineering concentration (yes, I know that HMC encapsulates all engineering into the General Engineering program, but you are still free to build your concentration within that program). A Berkeley engineering student who does poorly may not be able to switch around at all. For example, if I come in as a Berkeley ME student and I do poorly, I probably won't be able to switch into Physics, because that would mean that I would have to switch into L&S which I won't be able to do without good grades. I also probably won't be able to switch into EECS or any other engineering discipline either. So in this case, HMC actually offers MORE flexibility. </p>

<p>But again, the point is, I think it's a wash. Overall, I don't know that the Berkeley College of Engineering offers significantly more flexibility than does HMC. Sure, the Berkeley students who are doing well enjoy much more flexibility, as they will be free to switch around to any major they want. But those who are doing poorly may actually have LESS flexibility because they won't be able to switch around at all. So overall, I think it's a wash.</p>

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<p>vicissitudes -- Let me clarify, as you responded to my "size and prestige don't matter" claim slightly out of context. Some posters had said that Claremont, due to its much smaller size, does not offer the networking and prestige afforded to UC grads. While this is in many ways true, my point was that such concerns are minimal to one who is <em>realistically planning</em> to attend grad school, for that will provide another opportunity (which will often be more strongly considered by employers because it will have been more recent) for size, networking, prestige, and so forth. I don't mean that the factors are of no importance, just that they are of decreased concern to grad school-bound students.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the concerns you have about Mudd don't seem very serious to me. A Mudd student (and I only used "Mudd/publishing" as an arbitrary example) can cross-major on any of the 5Cs, and at least a couple per year always do. Like rocketDA said, these students would still have to complete the technical core, which would also be true of, for example, any MIT business grad (I'm assuming...please correct me if I'm wrong). But Mudd is <em>KNOWN</em> as a tech school, and attendees KNOW that they will be facing this core, this environment, and so forth. One of the strongest draws of Mudd is that it DOES provide ample LAC/humanities resources for those tech-minded students with broader interests. Someone who's unsure that she wants a tech major should probably not be looking at a school that will bind her to one, whether that school be Mudd, MIT, CalTech, or UCB School of Engineering. Your concern is well-founded, but does not at all serve to show why a UC is preferable to Mudd, and may actually be used to demonstrate the opposite in some cases. </p>

<p>In my first post, I explained that I myself was torn between engineering and a humanities major. For this reason, I found Claremont a <em>more</em> attractive option than Cal, which would have required me to choose my "school" before attending. Claremont requires no such decision and the only difficulty for one who changes her mind is the completion of GEs, and that applies at each school (whether you're stuck taking physics at Mudd, econ at CMC, or women's studies at Scripps).</p>

<p>It must be remembered that this thread is not about why Claremont is better than the UCs or why the UCs are better than Claremont. The thread is simply about why a particular individual might choose Claremont over a top UC. Not why EVERYONE might, not whether or not they would be making a mistake, but why SOMEONE might.</p>