Why choose a prestigious university?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My eventual goal is to get accepted into med school and eventually become a doctor; I'm a high schooler as of now. I've been wondering... what is the point of going to a prestigious undergraduate university (like a top ten school) rather than a less prestigious one where I would receive more merit-based scholarships?</p>

<p>Cons of prestige:
The competition will be stiffer, so my GPA will likely be lower, hindering my chances to get into med school.
More $$$</p>

<p>What are the pros of spending more money to go to a prestigious university (other than unimportant things like bragging rights)?</p>

2

<p>quality of education?</p>

3

<p>If you are just looking at prestige, not much.</p>

<p>But if the overall experience is better and makes you grow more as a person or learn more, perhaps it is worth it. Who knows?</p>

4

<p>well some would argue that a big name would give you more opportunities if say you got halfway through med school and decided hey i wanna do something else. A degree from a lesser know school might somewhat limit you to the field of your degree. Whereas a prestigious degree may afford you more flexibility.</p>

<p>example: You have a BS in say biology from say idk UGeorgia. You Leave med school after a year and decide to go into business. Might be kinda hard as you dont have any experience in business. whereas with a BS in biology from Harvard, your prospective business employer may say "sure you went to harvard, why not?" This is just a fairly extreme example and is not always true. </p>

<p>I for one agree with going to a school that makes you happy and graduating with less debt, especially if your going to med school. Well good luck</p>

5

<p>There really isn't any. You've kind of hit the nail on the head.</p>

<p>If one's eventual goal is to go to graduate or professional school, the undergrad college matters a lot less and the graduate/professional school, a lot more. If you want to be a doctor, go to a lower-tier university for undergrad but then go to Harvard Medical, you will get much better positions than someone who went to Harvard College but their lower-tier university for medical school.</p>

<p>That's essentially what I did. I went to a second-tier liberal arts college that was a safety school for me. They gave me a full scholarship that covered the cost of my attendance all four years. I did very well, had a wonderful time at this college and made lots of contacts, both personal and professional. I got individual attention from professors and built up the research experience I needed. I studied abroad for FREE because I had so many contacts and personal attention I got extra scholarships on top of the full ride I already had.</p>

<p>And when I was a senior, I applied to graduate school and got into all of my programs -- all top 10 programs in my field, including a full-funded Ph.D program at Columbia. When I applied to graduate school, I didn't have to worry about how much different programs would cost or how much loans I would take out on top of what I already had because my loan debt was very low. My school, although it wasn't one of the top 50 programs, was still well recognized and my advisers (now my grad professors) commented on the success of students from my alma mater.</p>

<p>Quality of education or life is not necessarily better at a higher-ranked school -- it depends on what the school means to YOU. My alma mater was a historically black women's college; I am a black woman, therefore the resources and education were especially tailored for me. We had top grad/professional schools and job firms recruiting on campus all the time! I got to speak one on one to admissions officers from top law schools like Duke, Harvard, and Yale (when I was interested in law school) and the top medical schools were there frequently. I did not sacrifice quality for price.</p>

<p>I always recommend that students go a tier down from their 'match' schools and investigate colleges and universities in that tier for the benefit of merit-based aid. Think -- having little to no undergrad debt will free you up to consider the most prestigious and expensive medical schools.</p>

<p>Oh, and don't let anyone tell you that a more prestigious undergrad school will give you more access to more prestigious medical schools. It's not true. Medical schools want diversity in their classes, and they don't only select students from among elite institutions. If you work hard and take advantage of great opportunities, you can get in from anywhere.</p>

<p>EDIT: Also, I disagree with lazydog's assessment. At least maybe if he hadn't picked a nationally known university like the University of Georgia, he may have a point, but this happens less often than high school students think. Fact is, most high school students overestimate the importance of prestige when they look for colleges.</p>

6

<p>Uhh I think the only pro of attending a prestigious university lasts only 15 minutes which is...the job interviews. After that no one cares and success is based only on you... not the school.</p>

<p>So don't fall into the temptation that you need an elite university to succeed in life.</p>

7

<p>Of course, undergraduate schools doesn't matter for when you want to become doctors unless you aim for the very elite medical schools in the nation (Harvard, Hopkins, UPenn etc...)</p>

<p>With competition so stiff these days, you'd bet that these elite institutions are heavily populated by students of the Ivy league caliber level.</p>

<p>With regards to the competition and stiffness to get a GPA to get into medical school. A lack of a good GPA anywhere would signify that you would fail to keep up with the couresload at medical school when you get there. Adcoms wouldn't be that dumb to say, 3.7 or 3.8 from PoDunk State university would be a better candidate or a better fit for medical school than say a 3.3 or 3.4 engineering major from schools known for their grade deflation (Cornell, JHU, to name a few).</p>

<p>Again, I believe it is all relative. No matter where you go, you must be a shining star, I would say that an above average applicant from a top national university (very high up on the list, top ten, top fiftheen) could easily win out against the #1 from Podunk State University. Thats my guesstimate for the truly elite med schools in our country.</p>

<p>In fact, you don't even need to go to the best medical schools in the nation in order to become a doctor. You can graduate from like a state medical school with hopefully flying colors on your third year rotations, step1/2 exams, med school rank/grades, and hopefully residency directors would recognize you and give you a chance to join them. I don't know. Unless your looking for highly competitive top residency programs at top ranked specialty hospitals (Hopkins, Mayo, MGH, Cleveland Clinic, etc...) then where you went to medical school matters and how you did individually as well.</p>

8

<p>I am a transfer to a T20 university, and while it is not often considered among the most prestigious of schools, having attended several different undergrads, I may be able to offer some insight regarding some difference in prestigious schools and those not considered prestigious.</p>

<p>To start, teaching ability was only slightly better at the university I currently attend than at the small LAC, larger state university, and large community college I attended. There are those who can teach at every institution and those that are simply inept at relaying the information to their students. There was, however and not surprisingly, a noticeable difference in the qualifications of the professors at my current university and that of those at the "lesser" institutions. Though often using the same textbook, I found that my courses at the lower ranked schools were often focused on my ability to absorb the textbook itself whereas at my current university, the professors tend only to use the textbook as a foundation from which their lectures explore their respective topic in more depth and breadth.</p>

<p>Perhaps the most notable difference is the quality of students and the general attitude of students towards their school and their peers. At my current university, students tend to be very proud of their accomplishments and of the university and as a result, their is a pervasive sense of service towards the university community and to continued excellence in faith, service, and academics. This was much less so, though still apparent in many aspects, at the small LAC and virtually non-existing at the urban state public and community college. There is, however, something to say about the diversity provided by the state public and community college in that it is very easy to find a large group with which one might feel comfortable. There is, in a sense, "something for everyone." This is not so to the same degree at my current university, and without going into the topic of what the average student at a top school looks like, there is a pervasive sense of community identity at these types of schools with which a majority of students tend to identify. Though there are niches for most students at my current university, diversity here is much less pronounced than that of the other schools I attended.</p>

<p>Finally, I feel an important difference between my university, and other highly regarded schools, and those ranked lower is the amount and nature of assistance students receive from their professors and staff. At my still-developing LAC, large public state school, and the large community college, success was almost entirely dependent on the individual to step up to the plate and hit one home. While these schools did what they could, they were either understaffed or simply unable to meet the academic, personal, and professional needs of every student in the way a more prestigious university with larger endowments and with a more impressive teacher to student and staff to student ratio is able. It was no simple task climbing my way into the university I am at now and I did this with minimal support of the professors and professional staff at the other schools. At my current university, I find that both the professors and the staff are better equipped and more willing to help the students along their way.</p>

<p>So is it worth it to attend a prestigious university ? I find that it is if you find a good fit and would appreciate the association with a larger cross section of some of the brightest students in the nation in addition to an often times more well rounded education and a often times stronger support staff. If, however, you are a bright, independent, and willing student, I have no doubt that you would succeed at any school which you choose to attend as some of my very good friends are brilliant students who fit in better at larger state publics or at smaller LACs and who I will likely be competing against for graduate school admissions.</p>

9

<p>First of all, I will say that the most important consideration is fit. It is extremely important to go to a school that you will be happy at. Happiness should trump both prestige and financial considerations ($30,000 of undergrad debt is nothing compared with what you'll be taking out in med school).</p>

<p>That said, there are advantages to going to a prestigous school:
1. Better academic environment
2. More research opportunities
3. More famous professors (ie more well-known letter writers; medicine and academia are small communities)
4. Better grades (the more prestigious schools generally have more grade inflation)
5. Smaller classes (better recs presumably)
6. Better/more individual advising
7. The odds that you make it to med school is very low. At most schools, only 10-30% of freshman premeds even make it to the application stage. So, it is likely that you will change your career direction and therefore it's important to choose a good all-around college.
8. Despite what people say, the name of your undergrad does matter; those of us who've interviewed at med schools (I've personally interviewed at 10+ medical schools including 6-7 out of the Top 20 med schools in the country) know it is not a coincidence that sometimes more than 50% of the applicants interviewed on a particular day come from a Top 15 college. I've had interview days where out of 20 or so interviewees, only 4-5 did not come from a Harvard or a Cornell or a Duke-type school. No exagerration.</p>

<p>I think the top Northeast med schools (Harvard, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, etc.) are especially snobby as to the schools they interview (preferring Ivy League, east coast schools to even top UC's like Berkeley, UCLA, etc. which explains why Berkeley and UCLA graduates do so poorly in applications to east coast med schools). The top West Coast and Midwest med schools (UC's, Michigan, Northwestern, etc.) tend to be a little less elitist as to who they interview. That's from my observation at least.</p>

<p>That said, none of the above is unconquerable for an extremely driven student. It's just easier sometimes to do premed at a prestigious college.</p>

<p>LAC's are really awesome too for premed and I don't mean just Amherst, Swarthmore, and Williams. Many of the less prestigious LAC's provide many of the advantages of Ivy League-caliber universities so it's not surprising to see a fair amount of LAC graduates in med school.</p>

10

<p>I mean, if your also going to be a doctor, don't let 140K investment stifle you from getting a world class education. Its only 140K, you'll make multi millions over the course of a lifetime. If not, join HPSP and get the Army to pay for your medical tuition costs. Thats what I'm planning to do. :)</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
There really isn't any. You've kind of hit the nail on the head.

[/quote]

Not really -- there certainly are advantages to attending more prestigious (read: more selective, renowned, etc.) schools -- but by no means is it a guarantee for a ticket to life on the easy road. The most recognizable advantage is opportunity to selective firms and industries that only actively recruit at "top/prestigous/elite" schools while not even bothering to show up at others. That's not to say that you can't backdoor your way into those same organizations as an experienced professional in the future -- you certainly can -- but why take a circuitous route when you have an opportunity to go directly?</p>

<p>
[quote]
If one's eventual goal is to go to graduate or professional school, the undergrad college matters a lot less and the graduate/professional school, a lot more. If you want to be a doctor, go to a lower-tier university for undergrad but then go to Harvard Medical, you will get much better positions than someone who went to Harvard College but their lower-tier university for medical school.

[/quote]
<br>
Agreed. But the problem is that oftentimes, the rigor/reputation of your undergrad school plays a role in whether or not you get into that prestigious graduate school. Sure, you will always have representation from a school like Florida A&M at Yale Law School... but we're talking MAYBE one or two per class. Compared to 10-20 from a much smaller (yet widely understood to be much more prestigious/difficult) Amherst or Williams. And why not? The entrance/screening standards and student body competitiveness easily exceed that of Florida A&M -- it only makes sense that they should send many more students to elite graduate programs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That's essentially what I did. I went to a second-tier liberal arts college that was a safety school for me. They gave me a full scholarship that covered the cost of my attendance all four years. I did very well, had a wonderful time at this college and made lots of contacts, both personal and professional. I got individual attention from professors and built up the research experience I needed. I studied abroad for FREE because I had so many contacts and personal attention I got extra scholarships on top of the full ride I already had.</p>

<p>And when I was a senior, I applied to graduate school and got into all of my programs -- all top 10 programs in my field, including a full-funded Ph.D program at Columbia. When I applied to graduate school, I didn't have to worry about how much different programs would cost or how much loans I would take out on top of what I already had because my loan debt was very low. My school, although it wasn't one of the top 50 programs, was still well recognized and my advisers (now my grad professors) commented on the success of students from my alma mater.</p>

<p>Quality of education or life is not necessarily better at a higher-ranked school -- it depends on what the school means to YOU. My alma mater was a historically black women's college; I am a black woman, therefore the resources and education were especially tailored for me. We had top grad/professional schools and job firms recruiting on campus all the time! I got to speak one on one to admissions officers from top law schools like Duke, Harvard, and Yale (when I was interested in law school) and the top medical schools were there frequently. I did not sacrifice quality for price.

[/quote]

I would say that your example, while very inspiring, is hardly representative of the average student from your undegraduate institution. Of course the superstars from less selective programs deserve a crack at the top graduate schools... the wheat will always separate from the chaff, no matter where they are. But there's just a lot more wheat at the top schools, if you will. Just because YOU attended [insert lower ranked school here] over [insert "elite" school here] for personal fit/financial reasons doesn't mean that the rest of your classmates did. More likely than not, they're there because it was the best school they got into.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I always recommend that students go a tier down from their 'match' schools and investigate colleges and universities in that tier for the benefit of merit-based aid. Think -- having little to no undergrad debt will free you up to consider the most prestigious and expensive medical schools.</p>

<p>Oh, and don't let anyone tell you that a more prestigious undergrad school will give you more access to more prestigious medical schools. It's not true. Medical schools want diversity in their classes, and they don't only select students from among elite institutions. If you work hard and take advantage of great opportunities, you can get in from anywhere.

[/quote]

Sure you can get in from anywhere -- but the fact of the matter is, it's easier from some places than others. The numbers from less selective schools are simply dwarfed by those from extremely selective ones. To get into a Harvard Law School from a place like Montana State University... you'd basically have to be at the top of your class. Check out the link below that has info on undergraduate institution representation at several of the nation's top law schools (Yale, Harvard, Virginia), and you'll see that the virtually all of the undergraduate schools with more than one student enrolled are widely recognized as prestigious. The institutions that only send one student aren't listed... but it's a safe bet to say that they're the lesser-known ones seeing as the elite ones are already listed.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/331975-undergraduate-schools-most-commonly-found-top-law-schools.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/331975-undergraduate-schools-most-commonly-found-top-law-schools.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

12

<p>I turned down a full ride at a top 20 school to go to Princeton, so I think I can speak to this. Like you, I was premed. But I was also very interested in math (and still am). I saw college as more than just preparation for med school. I wanted to get as much out of my undergraduate education as possible because I knew I would likely never be able to devote much time to my academic interests after I graduated. In that respect, Princeton was a better choice. The school I had been given a full ride to also didn't have a very good track record sending students to top medical schools while Princeton did. This was important to me because I was interested in academic medicine, and you generally need a degree from a top med school to succeed in academia. Once again, this suggested Princeton. My parents were willing to pay for Princeton but only on the condition that I pay for my own medical school (they would have paid for med school if I had taken the full ride). So $200,000 said choose the other school. I said "Screw it, you only live once" and went to Princeton. </p>

<p>My first semester in college, I fell in love with economics and decided I wanted to work in finance. Well guess what? Top investment banks recruit heavily at Princeton. At the other school I was considering, I would have had to claw tooth and nail just to get an interview at a top firm. I was really glad I had chosen Princeton.</p>

<p>The moral of the story is that you have to make a decision in the face of limited information. Obviously you need to consider which school makes more sense in light of your current career plans, but you should also consider the possibility that your plans may change. If they do, make sure the school you choose can accommodate them.</p>

<p>This thread is definitely worth checking out: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/213924-why-go-better-med-school.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/213924-why-go-better-med-school.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

13

<p>Juillet's points are extremely valid. They apply not only to minority students but to all students. Prestige is essentially something in your head. There are countless examples of people who go to second (or even third tier) schools for undergrad who then get into very prestigious law, medicine or PhD programs. And lots of Harvard, Yale, Princeton grads end up at UGeorgia, UKansas, UIowa, UIllinois (name a school) for their graduate school experience. </p>

<p>Do top investment banks recruit at Harvard, Princeton and Yale? Yep. And lots of those kids get offered jobs. But they also recruit HEAVILY at Syracuse and Fordham and Boston College and Georgetown and Holy Cross and UVa. There are kids from Duke, Wake, UNC, Clemson, Maryland working on WallStreet. </p>

<p>I would NEVER denigrate any college, whether that is little Washington College in Maryland or whether its Princeton. I congratulate anyone who is admitted anywhere and tell them, "go get em, Tiger!" Same advice for every kid.</p>

<p>And lots of those Harvard, Princeton and Yale graduates become professors at those second tier schools. So obviously they arent "that bad!" LOL. Fordham for example has about 65-70% of its faculty with Ivy League credentials.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
Do top investment banks recruit at Harvard, Princeton and Yale? Yep. And lots of those kids get offered jobs. But they also recruit HEAVILY at Syracuse and Fordham and Boston College and Georgetown and Holy Cross and UVa. There are kids from Duke, Wake, UNC, Clemson, Maryland working on WallStreet.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wouldn't say that Syracuse, Fordham, or Holy Cross gets heavily recruited. Your comments seem to downplay the importance of attending a top school if you want to do IB or MC. Go check out the Investment</a> Banking subforum if you don't believe me. I agree that it's a mistake to choose a school just for prestige, but you can't deny that going to a prestigious school gives you a sizable advantage in IB and MC.</p>

15

<p>Hello? Say again? I know for a FACT that Syracuse and Fordham place LOTS of kids on WallStreet every year. And that ALL the major IB's on Wallstreet do indeed recruit there. I can name names...some pretty famous CNBC and FoxBusinessNews who attended Syracuse and Fordham.</p>

<p>But I dont want to get into a spitting match about this. That you went to Princeton, good for you. Glad you went and had a good experience. I have a friend whose son went there and is now at Georgetown MSFS program at the Walsh School of Foreign Service. </p>

<p>I dont know if going to Harvard and Princeton gives you a SIZEABLE advantage working in IB or MC. An advantage? Maybe. To match that advantage there is always the burden of expectations, you know what I mean? Since you went to Princeton people will ALWAYS expect you to be brilliant and perfect and be disappointed if they dont get it. Its all in perspective I suppose.</p>

<p>The point I was making was that all this silly "I am better than you because I went to XYX school" is really not helpful and often rather harmful. I often ask people, "where did you go to school?" not out of a sense of noblesse oblige, or arrogance or condescension or intimidation or whatever.....but just out of curiosity and really as a focal point for further conversation and discussion, to see how the candidate or job prospect or person carries themselves. </p>

<p>Let me tell you a story. I went on a LOT of college tours. I took my kids on a LOT of college tours. Through all of that one person still sticks in my mind as an exceptional young person working in the admissions office who impressed me with poise, character, confidence and directness. It was a young lady at Mary Baldwin College in Virginia. (We were in Staunton visiting President Woodrow Wilson's House, the former President of the United States and President of Princeton University, across the street and sauntered over to Mary Baldwin on a lark....not an intention.) Her credentials were modest by perhaps your standards, but I will not long forget her. We didnt even ask our kids to consider it or apply there. Just a thought.</p>

<p>Congrats on going to Princeton.</p>

16

<p>Sorry if you got the impression I think "I am better than you because I went to XYX school." That wasn't my point at all. I find this attitude just as arrogant, ignorant, and off-putting as you do. My point, which I stand by, is that attending a top school does give you a significant advantage if you want a front office position at bulge bracket firms. But like you, I don't want to get in a spitting match over it because it doesn't really address the OP's concerns. There are plenty of threads in the Investment Banking subforum which address the issue.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Prestige is essentially something in your head. There are countless examples of people who go to second (or even third tier) schools for undergrad who then get into very prestigious law, medicine or PhD programs. And lots of Harvard, Yale, Princeton grads end up at UGeorgia, UKansas, UIowa, UIllinois (name a school) for their graduate school experience.

[/quote]

That statement has many flaws. What about programs where Illinois (engineering, physical sciences) or Kansas or Iowa are tops? You can't say a Harvard student is going to an unprestigeous program then. Also, what about some meh graduate programs at Ivies. My RA last year almost made it seem that his MSW program at Penn, while ranked very high, wasn't necessarily the toughest thing to get into if you had good grades and a willingness to pay.</p>

<p>I want to comment on how if you look at a single low ranked school (let's take Appy State) you might see one or two people from each class go on to a top law, med, or PhD program, but you will see a lot more go to those top programs out of Harvard. There are many factors that go into it though. You have the fact that there are just more smart kids at Harvard who have the ability to get into a top grad/professional school program regardless of where they go. You also have factors like stronger advising at a place like Harvard (crutial for premed and prePhD), more well known professors who, if they write you a rec, will help you get into a good grad program, more research opportunities, better networks for summer internships, and a peer group with more high achieving students (which I view as a pro).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Do top investment banks recruit at Harvard, Princeton and Yale? Yep. And lots of those kids get offered jobs. But they also recruit HEAVILY at Syracuse and Fordham and Boston College and Georgetown and Holy Cross and UVa. There are kids from Duke, Wake, UNC, Clemson, Maryland working on WallStreet.

[/quote]

There are people from all sorts of schools on Wall Street. Hotdog vendors go to college too right? Either way, if you talk to someone on Wall Street and tell them that your goal is to get a front office job out of college with a big name bank, they will tell you to go to the best college possible. If you look at the analyst classes of top banks, you might see one or two kids from a non target school, but the vast majority will be from a name brand school, with the most kids from big name places like Harvard and Wharton.</p>

18

<p>One of the advantages is, if you are in need of need-based aid, they have and dispense a lot of dollars. We compared our D going to the local State U v. Vandy and it was a tad bit cheaper to go to Vandy after the review. No brainer in our case. It had nothing to do with prestige. It had everything to do with meeting 100% of demonstrated need.</p>

19

<p>I'm just as much about going to prestigious schools as the next guy but I just want to point out that using the look at who goes to top law schools argument is a poor one. These kids didn't get into a top law school because they went to a top undergrad. They did so because they were very well qualified for both a top law school and a top undergrad. Getting into Harvard undergrad is more of an indication than a contributing factor to your chances at at a T6 law school. Why aren't there more kids from lower ranked schools then? Think about it, who is likely to boast higher average LSAT scores? The Harvard student body or that of Arizona State's?</p>

20

<p>Thank you for all your input... but there's still a matter of GPA deflation. If I go to a top ten college against stiffer competition and get a lower GPA, will med schools give me the benefit of the doubt because I went to such a challenging institution?</p>