Why do Asians care about scores so much?

[GMTplus7]

<p>

My Asian American family really enjoys watching the Cowboys and Mavericks play, and has done so for over 15 years… I’m not sure your ‘uncouth’ view on sports extends to all Asian families in general.

You are confusing the pleasure of being a spectator of an activity with being the same thing as advocating that activity as a profession for one’s offspring. </p>

<p>I suspect that there are exceedingly few porn fans who want their kids to be a porn star.</p>

[Canuckguy]

<p>

Employers are not some monolithic group. Some employers care very much about brand name schools. Others don’t. Some give preference to regional schools that everybody’s heard of. Some employers care passionately about GPA. Some don’t. Some give preference to people who worked their way through school, Some care very much about a diverse workplace, others don’t. Anyone who talks about “employers” as a monolithic whole isn’t thinking very critically.

</p>

<p>Do you practice what you preach?</p>

<p>

Why is there this widespread belief, though, that only HYPSM or a vanishingly small subset of schools are the only ones “worth” going to,…

</p>

<p>I think it is more along the line of what a famous American once said:</p>

<p>When you reach for the stars, you may not quite get them, but you won’t come up with a handful of mud either.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>“Do you practice what you preach?”</p>

<p>Of course. My current “star” at work went to Northern Illinois University. My previous “star” went to Marquette. Two others I’ve had went to USC and Vanderbilt. Now, USC and Vanderbilt are better schools than the first two, but what does that have to do with their everyday performance on the job?</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Considering where the US ranks in terms of high school education it would be intelligent to be open minded and actually listen to those people from “the old world” and how they did things back home.</p>

<p>I don’t know why people want to have them dumb themselves down just because they are now in America. Studying and encouraging them to live to their potential instead of creating useless charities to help little old ladies cross the street to get into college is a lot better for this country.

</p>

<p>You’re not hearing the points that I’m making. </p>

<p>1) I’m not saying it is dumb to study / work hard. I’m saying that it is dumb to ASSUME that because the criteria in one’s home country for college admission were primarily stats, that one should assume that stats are the primary criteria here in the US, too. They aren’t. One can argue whether that is good or bad, but you can’t argue that it isn’t true here.</p>

<p>2) I’m not saying that it is dumb to try to get into a good college.<br>
But it is dumb to ASSUME that because in one’s home country, there were only a handful of schools that guaranteed success and the rest weren’t worth the time of day, that it’s the same way here, too. </p>

<p>To canuckguy’s point about reaching for the stars – it IS dumb to pretend that only HYPSM represent the “stars.” It represents a mentality of - I can’t possibly conceptualize any other way other than how I was raised, and it would never occur to me to put a new lens on something. I don’t think that’s a particularly smart or impressive mentality.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@Pizzagirl

Why is there this widespread belief, though, that only HYPSM or a vanishingly small subset of schools are the only ones “worth” going to, when that is simply not the case in the US, at all?

</p>

<p>“Desirable colleges and universities” as referred to in post #58 are not limited to HYPSM or similarly selective schools. Lots of Asian students believe that they have to be “better” than students of other races or ethnicities to get into their state universities, for example.</p>

[Hunt]

<p>

I don’t know why people want to have them dumb themselves down just because they are now in America. Studying and encouraging them to live to their potential instead of creating useless charities to help little old ladies cross the street to get into college is a lot better for this country.

Well, I’m not sure I’d agree with you that it’s better for this country to have a bunch of students who do nothing but study, as opposed to some who spend some time in charitable and cultural pursuits.</p>

<p>I can understand the intense study if it’s a matter of principle–but if it’s a strategy for getting into the best colleges, in the U.S. there comes a point that it’s self-defeating if it prevents kids from doing the other activities that are necessary for admission to a top school that uses holistic admissions. I’ve been looking at the SCEA results thread for Yale, and there were a number of kids with super-high SATs and perfect GPAs who were deferred–and for several of them you could see that there weren’t many other activities on the resume. This what I don’t get–it seems to me that if these kids were allowed (or forced) to put their energies into extracurriculars, they would be very, very successful.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>But you heard above - charities are useless, and helping little old ladies cross the street is useless. What a pathetic set of values. (And no, overemphasis on sports activities isn’t any better. Everything in moderation.)</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

that one should assume that stats are the primary criteria here in the US, too. They aren’t. One can argue whether that is good or bad, but you can’t argue that it isn’t true here.

</p>

<p>Really? You don’t believe that the primary criteria for top schools is not stats?
Is it a mere coincidence that 70% of Stanford SCEA admits had a 4.0 or above?</p>

<p>

here were only a handful of schools that guaranteed success and the rest weren’t worth the time of day, that it’s the same way here, too.

</p>

<p>Sounds like a strawman. Are internationals not sending their students to a school that “only” rank between the top 10-20 since it isn’t worth it. I didn’t know that.
Of course they have a preference to be in the Top 10. And why do people keep claiming that this true just for internationals?<br>
Some schools are perceived as more than others.
Here: [Stanford</a> University Ranks No. 1 On Forbes’ 6th Annual Ranking Of America’s Top Colleges – Measuring Student Satisfaction And Post-Graduate Success - Forbes](<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbespr/2013/07/24/stanford-university-ranks-no-1-on-forbes-6th-annual-ranking-of-americas-top-colleges-measuring-student-satisfaction-and-post-graduate-success/]Stanford”>Stanford University Ranks No. 1 On Forbes' 6th Annual Ranking Of America's Top Colleges -- Measuring Student Satisfaction And Post-Graduate Success)
Your mileage may vary.</p>

<p>

But you heard above - charities are useless

</p>

<p>No, what you heard, was that creating a useless charity is useless. </p>

<p>You were the one who wanted to set that charity up in a foreign country instead of focusing on academics.</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

Why is it acceptable for so many people here to make these generalizations about Asians?</p>

<p>I can’t imagine that other threads which would comment about other minorities would be acceptable.

</p>

<p>I assume that you must have missed the countless threads about dumb jocks, dumb brown and black minorities, and other pejorative inclusions in the perennial “discrimination” posts that appear with great regularity every April and May. </p>

<p>And probably missed how … accurate most generalizations about Asians really are, from highly selfish grade grubbing drones though obsessive tiger parenting. Figure where the sarcasm ends and the unwarranted generalization starts in the above!</p>

<p>

Really? You don’t believe that the primary criteria for top schools is not stats?
Is it a mere coincidence that 70% of Stanford SCEA admits had a 4.0 or above?

</p>

<p>No coincidence when a 4.0 has become a trivial norm in US high schools. Ever checked the asinine self-reported grades on the SAT survey? Almost everyone reports an average of above a B+. Just imagine what applicants at uber selective college report! </p>

<p>It is hardly a coincidence that most applicants report stratospheric grades, but what seems to escape most obsessed with grades is that such grades or high SAT suffice. Again, check the posts about discrimination next April, and you will see how many failed to understand that there are plenty of activities --mostly the ones that do not attract the asocial, selfish, individualists but the team players and the true givers-- that pay dividends in presenting an … attractive application.</p>

<p>Colleges are not dumb. And when they are, they learn from their mistakes. While they were led to see the attraction of the high stats Suzuli violonists, they started to realize how little contributions to the schools came from such individuals during their stay and after graduations. They also saw how quickly the activivities that padded the resumes were abandoned as soon as the prize was collected. </p>

<p>The reality is that the fake resumes no longer deliver the goods as they used to!</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

Well, I’m not sure I’d agree with you that it’s better for this country to have a bunch of students who do nothing but study, as opposed to some who spend some time in charitable and cultural pursuits.

</p>

<p>Society, like college, is a mix of people.
Some people will spend 95% of their effort on charity and cultural pursuits and 5% on academic pursuits, some will have the opposite mix and their will be all sorts of gradients in between.</p>

<p>My point is that deriding kids who decide to study instead of creating “useless charities” (note the word “useless”) as a ploy to get into college, is no different than deriding the brilliant violinist because they do not take AP Physics C and AP Calc BC.</p>

<p>There is a lot of negative stereotypes here of Asians coupled with biases about the old country and their value of studying hard. It is really sad.</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

there were a number of kids with super-high SATs and perfect GPAs who were deferred–and for several of them you could see that there weren’t many other activities on the resume.

</p>

<p>True. But by the same token, there are many who are rejected who have extraordinary ECs.</p>

<p>

This what I don’t get–it seems to me that if these kids were allowed (or forced) to put their energies into extracurriculars, they would be very, very successful.

</p>

<p>I dare say that almost any kid who is posting their stats on CC with the stats you mentioned will wind up being very successful.</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

There is a lot of negative stereotypes here of Asians coupled with biases about the old country and their value of studying hard. It is really sad.

</p>

<p>No, it is NOT sad if the --correct-- criticisms of the actions described in the stereotypes can help future generations of Asian students and help free them from the abusive practice of conflating academic success and social and economic climbing. </p>

<p>There are people who will never admit how wrong people a la Chua are, and THAT is what is sad! What is sad is how to see how great kids are depressed from having to bring a B+ at home, or fear the abuse that such grade will generate from the “loving” parents. That is what is sad!</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

I assume that you must have missed the countless threads about dumb jocks, dumb brown and black minorities, and other pejorative inclusions in the perennial “discrimination” posts that appear with great regularity every April and May.

</p>

<p>I have not seen a thread whose title and entire thread was about that as this thread is but then again, I haven’t been here every April and May.</p>

<p>

And probably missed how … accurate most generalizations about Asians really are, from highly selfish grade grubbing drones though obsessive tiger parenting. Figure where the sarcasm ends and the unwarranted generalization starts in the above!

</p>

<p>I am not sure how to react to that, so I will pass.</p>

<p>

Again, check the posts about discrimination next April, and you will see how many failed to understand that there are plenty of activities…

</p>

<p>I think that people get the general principle (e.g. since 30% have less than a 4.0, there are obviously many other factors that come into play)…until it applies to them! (wut? Person X had a lower GPA than I and I got rejected and Person X was accepted…unfair!).</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

No, it is NOT sad if the --correct-- criticisms of the actions described in the stereotypes can help future generations of Asian students

</p>

<p>Not all Asians are the same. For instance, the OP who is Asian and does not subscribe to this.</p>

<p>That is what is sad. Taking this behavior (some variation of “grades are God”) and applying it to one race.</p>

[memphismnb]

<p>Quick note. Unless you’re asian and are truly offended, please no one start spitting out politically correct garbage about offensive stereotypes, racism, or what else. </p>

<p>I doubt most asian families find any of these stereotypes offensive, it’s just a fact for most of us. I know approximately 30+ asian families (chinese, korean, japanese, taiwanese, etc.) all but 1 follow the stereotype. The rest, my family included, are manical about grades and scores. A is expected, a B is shameful, C and you get no dinner, D…don’t even go there. They’re all tiger moms and occasionally tiger dads, and their kids go through what most Americans would consider mental and/or physical abuse to keep their grades and their standards high. I personally don’t find the asian stereotype offensive at all. I don’t see why being part of a (very true) stereotype that says we’re all smart, artsy, musical, obedient without question to our parents, and likely to become doctors or lawyers is offensive. It fits me and most of my asian friends to the T and we’re just fine with who we are and who we’re likely to become. </p>

<p>Comments about this thread being offensive or racist or stereotypical not needed here.</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

ccdaddio: It’s not a stereotype, it’s not offensive, it’s just a fact for most asian families. I know approximately 30+ asian families (chinese, korean, japanese, taiwanese, etc.) all but 1 follow the stereotype.

</p>

<p>Well, I know about 30 families Asian families who are don’t follow the stereotype (most of their kids focus on band and music and far less on academics) and so I cancel out your “data”.</p>

<p>Data points are not analysis.</p>

<p>

Please just stop all this politically correct garbage of “offensive” and “stereotype” and “racist.”

</p>

<p>Being offended at a stereotype is being politically correct? Well that is an interesting viewpoint.</p>

<p>I never said racist. You did.</p>

[ccdaddio]

<p>

I don’t see why being part of a (very true) stereotype that says we’re all smart, artsy, musical, obedient without question to our parents, and likely to become doctors or lawyers is offensive.

</p>

<p>What happens to those Asians who don’t fit into that stereotype? That they are “gasp” only a B student with a 2000 SAT? Don’t you think admissions look at them differently than a non-Asian B student with a 2000 SAT? And if not admissions, than an employer or even their friends. That person certainly wouldn’t fit into your group of 29 tiger mom families.</p>

<p>Stereotypes are harmful and totally unnecessary. They are for lazy people who try to judge people based on their race instead of who they are.</p>

<p>Learn more here: <a href=“http://employees.csbsju.edu/ltennison/positive%20stereotypes.pdf[/url]”>http://employees.csbsju.edu/ltennison/positive%20stereotypes.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And here:
<a href=“http://www.english.umd.edu/interpolations/2611[/url]”>http://www.english.umd.edu/interpolations/2611&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

What is sad is how to see how great kids are depressed from having to bring a B+ at home, or fear the abuse that such grade will generate from the “loving” parents. That is what is sad!

</p>

<p>Right. I <em>do</em> think it’s sad, unfortunate, whatever set of words you want to use, when yet another kid on CC posts that his parents are calling him an utter failure because he “only” got into (say) Vanderbilt instead of HYPSM. Such parents should be bursting with pride and dancing in the streets that their kid got into a top college in the US, with tons of opportunities awaiting him, and instead they are disappointed? Really? I think it’s pathetic.</p>

<p>Of course, I also think the excessive sports-culture and lack of attention paid to academics in mainstream American culture is pathetic too. No system or set of systems is perfect.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

No, what you heard, was that creating a useless charity is useless. </p>

<p>You were the one who wanted to set that charity up in a foreign country instead of focusing on academics.

</p>

<p>That’s not at all what I said. </p>

<p>

Some schools are perceived as more than others.
Here: Stanford University Ranks No. 1 On Forbes’ 6th Annual Ranking Of America’s Top Colleges – Measuring Student Satisfaction And Post-Graduate Success - Forbes
Your mileage may vary.

</p>

<p>My mileage does vary. I don’t live around people who are <em>obsessed</em> with getting their children into top 10 or top 20 schools. Most around here are pleased as punch with state flagship, and you know something? They’re right. There are only a handful of places in this country where you can’t get to from my state flagship, and they aren’t places that people are climbing over themselves to want to be, anyway. </p>

<p>There’s just a lot more confidence in my world - that it will all work out and hard-working, smart kids will do just fine – whether or not they have HYPSM on their diploma.</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

@xiggi

</p>

<p>No, it is NOT sad if the --correct-- criticisms of the actions described in the stereotypes can help future generations of Asian students

</p>

<p>Not all Asians are the same. For instance, the OP who is Asian and does not subscribe to this.

</p>

<p>Please note that none of my comments are intimating to be applying to “all asians.” I deliberately mention the criticisms of the actions described in the sterotypes. Obviously, not “all Asians” are engaged in the behavior some of us find reprehensible. And, fwiw, not all Asians are compiling “perfect scores” and obsessed with climbing the social ladders through a vicarious life. In addition, most here are aware that Asians are hardly a homogeneous group. Immigrants from agrarian societies are different from other Asians. So are Mountain people. And ABC should not be confused with Laotians, Hmongs, or Khmers. And neither should Indians or Pakistani with goatherding Bhutanese. </p>

<p>The criticisms are not directed at an entire race, but at the people who happen to deserve it, and … happen to be part of the race that correlates highly with the behavior. </p>

<p>Not the same difference!</p>