<p>It just doesn't make sense to me. Not everyone has that kind of personality or likes so much attention. It seems unfair that a more reserved person would have less of a chance at getting admitted simply because of their personality.</p>
<p>I think you know exactly why they look for leadership positions. I’m shy too. But I’ve managed to make team captain/presedent of three clubs, start my own business and fundraise for several non-profits. In the real world, being reserved doesn’t usually turn out in your favor. That’s the unfortunate truth.</p>
<p>Many important scientific advances were not made by club presidents. It is a good question. Not all students can or should be business leaders.</p>
<p>This is a straw man argument, if I can be blunt. Most colleges don’t evaluate “leadership” or “outgoing personality” traits whatsoever. There you go.</p>
<p>Only a few do. They just happen to be some of the more elite colleges. They admit students with potential – academic, social and leadership.skills. No one is forced to try to attend them.</p>
<p>Do you think a shy introvert should be a good applicant for West Point? Not too many people would think so, right?</p>
<p>Leadership positions are one obvious way of demonstrating initiative, social IQ, perseverance, and an interest in things outside of academics. Such people provide ‘social glue’ by bringing people together, which is a desirable quality on a college campus. But that isn’t the only way to demonstrate these qualities. Investing deeply in any outside interest or hobby will generally enable someone (even someone very introverted) to demonstrate many of these qualities: Their peer group, in this case, will probably be other hobbyists instead of fellow-students, but that’s fine. Don’t get trapped into thinking you have to do what everyone else does (ie, be president of a club) just to show that there is more to you than your GPA and test scores. Be a little more creative and open-minded about how to convey who you are and what you care about - you’ll enjoy yourself more and the admin people will thank you for added some variety to the applications they have to read.</p>
<p>I agree with T26E4 (as usual). But I would add that leadership is just one example of the kind of achievement that top colleges look for. If you are a published novelist who also did ground-breaking genetics research in your basement, Harvard is not going to reject you because you weren’t the president of the Science Club.</p>
<p>Etud:</p>
<p>I agree with you. Since when has it become a bad thing in this country for a kid to simply concentrate on his school work? </p>
<p>To me, half of the ECs are almost contrived. I see many posts on cc which in essence ask “what kind of ECs should I do to jazz up my resume?”</p>
<p>Obviously at the top schools they are looking for more than just academic achievement because everyone seriously considered for admission has met a threshold (through test scores & course record) of prediction that they will be able to handle the academic rigor of that university. I make the analogy to sports. Would you rather have a player who puts up great “stats” but does not do much to make their teammates better or one that also has great stats but makes all of their teammates better? Referencing NBA basketball in the 1990’s…Dominque Wilkins & Michael Jordan were examples of this. Jordan was a great individual talent but also made his teammates better & thus won championships. Wilkins was a great individual talent but did not understand the nuances of the game well enough to make his teammates better & thus never won much of anything.</p>
<p>T26: I very much doubt a shy introverted person would self select for West Point. But you know this.
I am quite sure however that a brilliant but shy mathematician could do well at any number of elite colleges.</p>
<p>The whole “what you can bring to the campus” is a bunch of BS.</p>
<p>It is highly unfortunate what is happening in college admission these days. 14-15 year olds are looking to find that niche that will set them apart. In addition to other peer pressure in high school these days, no wonder mental health risks are rising these days. I have seen ‘shy’ kids in high school blossom into the extroverted personality at work. People change all the time. On the other hand, the outgoing, school president, is working long hours in mundane jobs. Used to be when kids just wanted to go to school and hang out, now they are shuttled across activities, music lessons, swim /soccer team and yes, do charity drives and did I forget - test prep for the ultimate SAT scores.</p>
<p>Sorry for the rant 
Guess I am getting pretty frustrated myself at the pressure these days in hs kids. My last advice - relax, getting into an elite college will not break or make you. Do the best wherever you go and you will be successful.</p>
<p>It is a little weird. I’m not outgoing at all (or wasn’t before college), so I didn’t have many leadership positions. But I got into a lot of places. Just show them who you are, that you do useful stuff.</p>
<p>Geeps:</p>
<p>Good post. I agree with you that all this stuff about “what you can bring to the campus” is basically BS.</p>
<p>This whole application process reminds me of communist russia, where you had to be skilled at writing the politically correct words that the government wanted to hear. Today, when applying to colleges in America, you must mention “diversity” and “inclusiveness”, etc. </p>
<p>What is wrong with a kid simply applying to a college because the kid wants to get a good education, to better himself or herself in life?.</p>
<p>My son is not going to college to “contribute” to the college “community”. His job is simply to be a good student, and then get a good job, so he can offer valuable skills and/or services to the economy. And like me, perhaps he might even employ four or five people, so that they have jobs they would not have otherwise have had.</p>
<p>If he becomes a big success in life, then he can later contribute $5 million to the school.
I know this is not PC, but those of you who don’t agree with this might not know that 40 years ago, I don’t recall colleges requiring that applicants engage in this type of stuff.</p>
<p>^ not PC at all…didn’t you get the memo?..Kids today are supposed to get a liberal arts education to enrich themselves. How dare you mention becoming a business owner and hiring people?..capitalism is bad…lol</p>
<p>I think they just want a bunch of energetic go-getters to make their campuses come alive. In college, all the clubs are run by students. In H.S. they are usually run by faculty members.</p>
<p>Have to agree with others who said that you don’t have to be “all that” to get into a great university. EC’s ARE often shallow and colleges obviously don’t take those very seriously. If you don’t want to go to a college that wants you to “contribute” then again, don’t apply to those few. </p>
<p>The problem, IMO, is that people are too focused on such a narrow definition of leadership. Quiet and reserved people can provide leadership. You don’t have to be a club president or captain of the football team. These are just the ones that seem to easily come to mind. </p>
<p>Try not to concentrate on the stereotypes.</p>
<p>
those are pretty much universal schools of thought in higher education. But I am certain you can get into the “top 10” without writing either of those words in an essay.</p>
<p>“Guess I am getting pretty frustrated myself at the pressure these days in hs kids.”</p>
<p>I don’t think that is true in all communities, not true in mine. And in my community most kids get in the schools they want; they we not elite schools. I think the only students who need to worry about ultra selective resumes, are those that want to go to ultra selective schools. It’s not necessary.</p>
<p>OTOH, I like that kids can excel in different ways. I am not sure there is a lot more inherent value in super high SAT’s and GPA’s, than there is in leadership,charisma, and enthusiasm. I am distinguishing super high from just very good. I think we need some of each, and folks with both.</p>
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<p>Amen! Leadership requires confidence, and confidence rises with age and education.</p>
<p>You are correct floridad, in that 30+ years ago one of my siblings got into Yale as “only” a national merit finalist with decent grades and a few random talents (as he would be the first to admit); graduated; and became a contributing member of society. I myself was admitted to an elite school with basically one EC and without ever founding a charity and graduated from same. </p>
<p>Is it a bad thing that many more young people are now able to compete for spots at good colleges? I would say no. But times have certainly changed. </p>
<p>I absolutely think there is pressure to be extroverted in our society–it is highly valued and rewarded. One of my kids is a quiet and bright guy who will never be a member of an “eating club” but I think will contribute in his own way. Good schools definitely need those students.</p>
<p>"but those of you who don’t agree with this might not know that 40 years ago, I don’t recall colleges requiring that applicants engage in this type of stuff. "</p>
<p>But 40 years ago I could not name one “elite” school, and most in my community still can’t. And the colleges they attend, IF they attend, still don’t require they engage in “this type of stuff”.</p>