Why Do Party Schools Rank So High?

<p>ROFL, wutang and that other kid are hilarious. You do realize half the people that actually RUN this nation (not the figurehead like the president who ironically went to Yale. that speaks highly of your "elite" schools admissions process) went to school not only not in the top 25 but all over the top 100 and some even lower. Take a look at the famous CEO's, Doctors, etc. There is a significant larger amount of successful, rich people that graduated from "average" schools compared to the rich that graduated from Harvard etc. Some grads on average may make more than the average person, but most of the richest people did not go to a top 20 school, get your facts straight.</p>

<p>As for why party schools rank so highly (and it is quite high considering 4k+ colleges) its a combination of their populations and the resources alloted to them. When you have 10-20k+ kids paying tuition that helps to fund your school, which helps to bring in better professors, equipment, etc, which improves the overall educational experience in the school.</p>

<p>I thought it had more to do with how many students are rejected from that school...</p>

<p>Run our country? Our country is run by old money a-holes who went to Harvard and Yale and joined Skull and Bones</p>

<p>BTW, I'm not trying to justify going to an Ivy, because I don't. I go to McGill, which is not super elite, and very underfunded. I couldn't afford tuition to Georgetown, etc. My annual tuition next year is 1900. But believe me, if I got into Harvard, I'd take out the loans. And as Vyse even hinted at, Harvard for MBA isn't a bad idea, either.</p>

<p>The internet is full of feel good advice for delusional losers. Unless your a brilliant entrepeneur, you have to go to a top school, at least for over grad if you want to be successful.</p>

<p>Once and for all, no IVY other than Wharton offers finance undergrad. Your supposed to learn finance as an MBA and on the job, as it isn;t academically demanding enough to be worthy of wasting 4 years tuition.</p>

<p>what is your definition of success?</p>

<p>Yes, Poli Sci, history and English are really all that challenging. Pfffftttt. Advanced finance classes are very challenging.
Most of the Fortune 500 firms are run by state school grads. Wisconsin ties harvard for the most.
Until his recent retirement the head of the World's most valuable company was a UW grad.</p>

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The internet is full of feel good advice for delusional losers. Unless your a brilliant entrepeneur, you have to go to a top school, at least for over grad if you want to be successful.

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<p>Precisely. And CC is full of those posters who constantly look for reassurance and other cheerleaders who will say what they want to hear. I won't do it, and I'm sure wutangfinancial feels the same way.</p>

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ROFL, wutang and that other kid are hilarious. You do realize half the people that actually RUN this nation (not the figurehead like the president who ironically went to Yale. that speaks highly of your "elite" schools admissions process) went to school not only not in the top 25 but all over the top 100 and some even lower. Take a look at the famous CEO's, Doctors, etc. There is a significant larger amount of successful, rich people that graduated from "average" schools compared to the rich that graduated from Harvard etc. Some grads on average may make more than the average person, but most of the richest people did not go to a top 20 school, get your facts straight.

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<p>Of course most of the CEOs from Fortune 500 (that's what I think of when you say "famous") companies came from an "average" school. By my count from the top of my head, there are at least 13 Ivy League (not even Stanford, MIT, and the like) Fortune 500 CEOs. That means if I bothered to do a little more research, I could probably find more CEOs that graduated from our nation's best universities. Now you might think, "Oh, so what?" However, 13 out of 500 is a terrific proportion of Ivy League students, considering that Ivy League students only comprise about 1% of the total number of undergraduates in this country, if even that. Infact, there are fewer Ivy League undergraduates than there are Arizona State University students at all four campuses combined.</p>

<p>But why should all this matter? As wutangfinancial has alluded to over and over again, the real money to be made lies not in the corporate boardrooms of Fortune 500 companies, but in the offices of major finance and consulting firms. Unfortunately, Ivy League, Stanford, and MIT grads proliferate a lot of the lucrative finance jobs out there. suze, a frequent poster of the Chances threads on CC has stated that there were no state school grads at the finance firms she interned at. So tell me hyakku, who runs this nation now? I'll give you a little hint:</p>

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Our country is run by old money a-holes who went to Harvard and Yale and joined Skull and Bones

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<p>This is just an unfortunate reality, but it does none of you any good to pretend that no social hierarchy exists. Take Chelsea Clinton for example, who got a job at McKinsey and then later on as a hedge funds manager (which, for some of you newbies out there, is probably one of the most highly coveted finance jobs) while barely lifting a finger, relatively speaking.</p>

<p>yeah but what is considered successful? there are plenty of state and low tier school graduates making 6 figures and living lavishly</p>

<p>The fact is a much higher proportion of Fortune 500 ceos used to come from Ivy schools. That has changed markedly over the last 20 years. Do a little research.</p>

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yeah but what is considered successful? there are plenty of state and low tier school graduates making 6 figures and living lavishly

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<p>And there are plenty of Ivy graduates making 6 figures and living lavishly. So what's your point?</p>

<p>As for what's considered 'successful', that depends on the person. Some find extreme satisfaction in helping third world, impoverished children. Others, as you may have noticed, wish nothing more than to fix the global warming crisis. For the purpose of this thread, I think it's quite clear that 'success' pertains to a higher income and an implied greater possession of material goods. I think we can all agree that most Americans aspire to the last definition.</p>

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The fact is a much higher proportion of Fortune 500 ceos used to come from Ivy schools. That has changed markedly over the last 20 years. Do a little research.

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<p>Oh come on barrons, is that really necessary? Even if what you say was true, it only strengthens my point: That Ivy League graduates are disproportionately represented as CEOs, and that they were even more so in the past. But now that Ivy graduates are less represented as a whole in the Fortune 500, shouldn't that be a good thing? That this country is moving towards a meritocracy in at least one aspect?</p>

<p>I would suggest that YOU do some research on the top finance and consulting firms, for THAT is where the Ivy graduates mostly go to. See how grossly overrepresented the Ivy League is at GS, or McKinsey (comprising up to the majority of I-Bankers and consultants at these and similar firms). I wish this wasn't the case, since I've met some very bright people during my time at a State U (a "real" Podunk U mind you, not something like Texas A&M) but sadly, that's the way things are.</p>

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And there are plenty of Ivy graduates making 6 figures and living lavishly. So what's your point?

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<p>One group probably owed 10k in loans, and the other probably owed 50k?</p>

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One group probably owed 10k in loans, and the other probably owed 50k?

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<p>That's a common misconception about the Ivies. A lot of them are aggressive when it comes to financial aid, perhaps even better so than the State schools. I'd hate to sound like a broken record, so I'm going to refer you to sakky's posts about a guy who joked that he had to turn down his "dream school" Berkeley because Harvard had the better aid package. I know that by the time I graduate, I will have 0 loans. That's pretty darn good coming from a middle-class Canadian (and thus, International) student going to an Ivy that was NOT need-blind to my status. As you hopefully well know, it's better with respect to the Financial Aid Offices to be a poor student than a wealthier one. I believe Harvard has eliminated tuition and boarding for students with an income of less than 60k (I think). And of course, the richest kids just don't care. So that means the middle class should have it the worst. But me? I'll be just fine.</p>

<p>So again I ask. What's your point?</p>

<p>"There are 3000 colleges in the US"</p>

<p>I thought there were 4000. but good point, anyways.</p>

<p>Lmao, money, to people like big brother and wutang are measures of success, yet power, is where success truly lies. Like at the people who are RUNNING, not funding, you have them quite tangled my good man. It takes significantly less skill to run a business where you are constantly given advice and help rather than to run a country, or an army, or navy, etc. The people who matter (you can always replace a CEO in a company) generally graduated from regular schools, or had daddy and mummy pay their way into better schools (Bush in yale? good one). Look at former Secretary of Defense, Speaker of the House, Senators, House of representatives, etc. All that PROVES that an ivy league education is just an education, nothing more nothing less. I don't give sugarcoated advice, I give real advice. I hope you dont think that because you go to Harvard, you will do great. I know a dope addict that was in Harvard, **** I knew of dope addicts (not pot, DOPE as in Diesel or Heroin for those who don't know) that are GOING to ivy league schools who are absolutely retarded and just happened to do well on the SATs and went to fairly easy schools.</p>

<p>I think however, that inadvertently you have strengthened my point Big Brother. If all the other people made it, sure the proportion who get the jobs compared to graduates of state schools may be higher (again there are other factors involved), but at the same time obviously their education doesn't differ much seeing as how the "normies" aren't losing their jobs left and right to ivy league grads.</p>

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Lmao, money, to people like big brother and wutang are measures of success, yet power, is where success truly lies. Like at the people who are RUNNING, not funding, you have them quite tangled my good man.

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<p>No hyakku, I explicitly stated that there are many ways to 'success', but that most Americans aspire to at least a comfortable lifestyle. But come on, don't you think money and power are at least intimately related? If you saw Michael Moore's new movie on how the health insurance companies bribed the heck out of Congress with 6 figure offers, you can at least get a clue that money is used in fairly interesting ways. You are explicitly stating "where success truly lies", but I have never made such definitive statements. </p>

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Like at the people who are RUNNING, not funding, you have them quite tangled my good man.

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<p>Uh, you mean like Venture Capitalists giving rise to the many Silicon Valley Tech firms that exist out there, and if they didn't exist, what would happen these people who 'run' the companies? Or like the Investment bankers that give life to an IPO that could one day become something Microsoft of the like? Oh, and those pesky VCs tend to reap off the success of profitable firms, often times knocking off original authority and replacing them with their own. But startups need VCs to become successful and when the time is up, the leeches come sucking.</p>

<p>It seems like YOU have things quite tangled up my good man.</p>

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It takes significantly less skill to run a business where you are constantly given advice and help rather than to run a country, or an army, or navy, etc.

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<p>I don't know about you, but Bush doesn't exactly look like the most efficient worker. But since when were we ever talking about the government? Regardless, public service is rarely more efficient than private enterprise, mainly because there's really little incentive to improve anything. On the contrary, if a firm like Microsoft refuses to step up, then too bad, so sad. Steve Ballmer said once basically that Microsoft's aim was to make money, not actually improve their GUI OS. I think you'd be hard pressed to dispute this monetary incentive.</p>

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Look at former Secretary of Defense, Speaker of the House, Senators, House of representatives, etc. All that PROVES that an ivy league education is just an education, nothing more nothing less.

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<p>And I'm asking YOU to look at the grossly disproportionate representation of Ivy League students at powerful banking and consulting firms. Mine and wutang's point has always been that the Ivy League graduates tend to go for the higher paying jobs such as banking and consulting - opportunities that are quite frankly, fairly scarce at the lower-tier schools. I have pointed out that a CEO position is often not usually the best option for a money aspiring Ivy grad, let alone a life in politics. Let's face it, politicians don't get paid as much of a base salary as successful bankers, so a lot of their money comes from political favors and tips. So I ask you again hyakku, who REALLY runs our country?</p>

<p>But more to the point, an Ivy League education results in amazing network opportunities and marketable prestige. THAT'S the power of an Ivy League education, and you'd be hard pressed to find a CCer that really believes that an Ivy education is "just an education". After all, why even apply to an Ivy in the first place, if there's really no special incentive that other schools cannot offer?</p>

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I don't give sugarcoated advice, I give real advice.

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<p>Hey man, I don't give sugarcoated advice either. I'm just dishing out the sad reality that exists and obviously, posters like you don't seem to enjoy that. It seems to me that you don't give real advice, but well-intentioned and often misleading, naive opinions.</p>

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I hope you dont think that because you go to Harvard, you will do great. I know a dope addict that was in Harvard, **** I knew of dope addicts (not pot, DOPE as in Diesel or Heroin for those who don't know) that are GOING to ivy league schools who are absolutely retarded and just happened to do well on the SATs and went to fairly easy schools.

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<p>Of course I don't! Remember that story a couple of weeks ago about the murderer who was a Yale alumni, lived with his parents, and was a drug addict? Success is hardly guaranteed, but that doesn't mean you should strive to improve your odds at success by going to a top school. As I have demonstrated, Ivy League graduates are disproportionately represented as CEOs, and I am fairly confident that they are well represented as political figures as well (despite many of them not relying on their grassroots which I must say, makes this overall feat much more impressive. After all, there are only Ivies in the Northeast). Just like people wear seat belts to increase their odds of surviving a crash, people apply to the Ivies to increase their odds of "doing great". Seat belts do not make you 100% safe, as you can still die in a car accident, but that's really not the focus here.</p>

<p>You know what hyakku, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here because there are many people on CC who, like you, put up the same arguments over and over again. There's a famous poster, sakky, who basically says the same thing I'm saying over and over again in other threads (although he probably got tired of doing so) to people who quite simply, just don't get it. </p>

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I think however, that inadvertently you have strengthened my point Big Brother. If all the other people made it, sure the proportion who get the jobs compared to graduates of state schools may be higher (again there are other factors involved), but at the same time obviously their education doesn't differ much seeing as how the "normies" aren't losing their jobs left and right to ivy league grads

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<p>Uh, so what's your point? And how does that strengthen yours (what is your overall point anyways? First you were talking about CEOs and vague interpretations of 'success', and now you go on about the government and stuff)? My point was that Ivy graduates are still disproportionately represented as CEOs, which is a PLUS in favor of Ivy graduates. My MAIN focus was that Ivy graduates don't really go for these jobs anyways, opting instead for exclusive, lucrative careers in banking and consulting. DESPITE this, they still do well as CEOs and politicians, but your invocation of the CEO/doctors examples was a really bad one.</p>

<p>I'm going to drive the final stake in here, right now.</p>

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<p>vs.</p>

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<p>So hyakku, in one example you talk about rich people and in the other, you blab on about political figureheads. It seems to me that you are distorting your definition of 'success'. Tell me, what exactly do you think is success? Because here I have two irrefutable pieces of evidence that contradict your posts. I love CCers and their consistency.</p>

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I've taken classes at a tier 3 school, and it was pathetic. I really didn't learn anything, and the school's career and grad. school placement record was abysmal. In the rest of the western world, if you can't get into a real school, you do something else. We need more skilled tradesman, we DON'T need more communications, sociology or music business majors.</p>

<p>In terms of economic competitiveness, the U.S. will lose it's edge unless there are more affordable, quality, certified insitutions awarding degrees in relevant fields. Massachusetts, a state with several of the best schools in the world, has only one decent state school, and even it's quality is questionable at best, and far from affordable for a working class kid. There's still a huge disparity in educational quality along socioeconomic lines.

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<p>My father attended one of those "****ty" tier 3 schools that you seem to think are for people who shouldve gone to trade school instead. He's the CEO of a publicly traded company and makes more money than you'll see in your life.
Whatever perception you have of less selective schools, it's ridiculous. Not everyone there is a moron who barely passed high school. Not everyone there necessarily planned on being there, but made the best of their situation. My father couldnt afford to go to where he wanted (Penn). He went to a tier 3 state school instead because he could afford it. He now looks at his classmates who went to these </p>

<p>the party schools allocate a lot of time and money to the big sports (football and bball) therefore there is less going to academics...but duke is an exception with their bball team</p>

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You're so much of an elitist it would go right over your head.

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<p>Not to put words in wutangfinancial's mouth, but he goes to McGill, and graduated from a Boston public school (in other words, g-h-e-t-t-o). I hardly see how these circumstances make him an elitist.</p>

<p>That's fine and all, but dont go crapping all over less selective schools. Saying people who attend tier 3s should opt for trade school instead is beyond asinine.</p>

<p>It really is. Economically, there is a point to be made there, but college is college. People in tier 3 schools have just as much chance of finishing college as people who attend schools in the top 10. </p>

<p>Personally, I'd rather go to a tier 3 school and be satisfied with my choice and come out with a degree, an education, and fond memories than having been one of those poor kids who applied to every school in the Top 20 on the USNWR list, maybe got accepted to two or three, and had to "settle".</p>