Why do people hate law?

<p>I am good at every subject in school ( high school), but I absolutely DREAD math, science, and anything related( except economics). I therefore decided that engineering and the medical field were out the door because I would fail any bio/chem/ computer science class in college and everything would be futile. My main academic interests lie in the social sciences ( psychology, poli sci, econ, sociology...etc). I have considered law for a LONG time, but this is probably because of what I have seen on such movies as a Time to Kill and a FEW Good Men. I understand law is DEFINETELY NOT the same as displayed in these movies, but I still don't get why people hate law? What other possible careers could I go in with a major in econ/poli sci? </p>

<p>I really want to be a lawyer, but it seems everyone here is expressing negative feedback on the profession and many people give statistics such as 70 percent of lawyers say they wouldn't go into law again. Isn't it the same for doctors/engineers?</p>

<p>I'm still in high school and I was wondering how much weight the undergraduate name has in law school admissions. Wouldn't it make sense for me to go to UC irvine/ San Diego and get a higher GPA than lets say... Duke? I heard law school admissions is number based.</p>

<p>Regardless of what college you attend, you need high GPA and high LSAT score to get into law school. However, depending on where you want to go, your undergraduate college can be one factor considered. Example, Harvard and Yale law take a lot of applicants from places that are top colleges such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton, U Chicago, Stanford, etc. They also take many others. In other words, attending a top college is not necessary but it can help for entry to get into top law schools.</p>

<p>That you dread math and science is not conceptually a reason to become a lawyer. You should not assume that all lawyers may not be good at those subjects; in fact a lot of engineering, science and math majors end up becoming lawyers. Also, you should not assume such areas are not needed by lawyers. A lot depends on what you do. I am a litigator who has been involved in a lot of complex case. In one group of nationwide cases, I basically had to learn the science of epidemiology and the science and practice of immunology and rheumotology. My college majors were economics and math but I had had chemistry and biology. For those cases, I spent three months reading and studying basic and advance medical textbooks on the subjects, about 250 articles none of which seemed to be less than 50 pages, and another two months going through about 1,000 medical files, and prepared detailed outlines of everything. What did that get me? The ability to challenge and essentially destroy at depositions 7 medical and epidemiology experts on the other side with the result that a perceived billion dollar problem for the client turned into something that went away. </p>

<p>What law can be is a constant learning exercise and you can spend a lot time learning and mastering details that relate to a case, which can often be mundane and boring and in subjects you never had any training in. The stress can be high and it can be high for long stretches at one time (had one trial that lasted six months and we basically spent 16 hours a day seven days a week doing the trial, preparing for next day at night, researching and writing motions and briefs on various issues throughout). And clients don’t like losing and if you do you can be second guessed to death.</p>

<p>You develop confidence in your own abilities but live always with uncertainty and wonder far more often than you should whether you have made the right decisions or you could be doing better in a case. Young lawyers spend long hours reviewing documents, researching, preparing memoranda, conducting discovery (written requests for documents and information and many depositions questioning witnesses) on cases and dealing with the dreaded term “billable hours” and always wonder whether they will be chosen for the holy grail of partnership or even if they want it. After five years, they wake up one morning and ask themselves, “Is there life after discovery disputes?” And begin to realize that in the scheme of any case everything has to have a beginning and an end but it is not necessary to have a purpose in between. Then after being a partner for years you learn you don’t work fewer hours. And though you love having clients, you deal constantly with their strong desire and insistence to cut costs (yours) but at the same time want you to produce top quality work and results. Things in a case can become gutter-like combat if you get against lawyers who may have been normal people when they became lawyers but have developed a style that pushes the ethical envelope beyond any perceived limit and they use deceit and trickery and believe that he who screams the most and makes the most preposterous accusations wins.</p>

<p>Moreover, the perception that most lawyers make a lot of money is not reality. There are many that do but there are far more who don’t. Those $150,000 starting salaries in mega law go to less than 8% of law school graduates and you can end up with huge debt out of law school and struggling to find a job if you are not not from a high ranked school or in the top of your class, and the job you finanlly get pays $55,000 or less.</p>

<p>At the same time there can be a lot of satisfaction. There is no feeling like the one you get when the jury comes back in your favor. Also, those long hours of research can sometimes produce brilliant legal arguments and just constantly learning the law (and many other things) is a joy. And once in a while you can win a case and the next call you get for another case is the party you just beat. You learn that winning is not everything but maintaining your integrity and ethics is. And you can sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and have an eureka moment where you suddently realize you have a great legal argument in a case that no one had thought of before. </p>

<p>Not everyone here is a dissastified lawyer and if it is something you dream of keep the dream. You are in high school and may change your mind and have a lot time to do so but don’t make the decision based on reading internet boards.</p>

<p>“At the same time there can be a lot of satisfaction. There is no feeling like the one you get when the jury comes back in your favor. Also, those long hours of research can sometimes produce brilliant legal arguments and just constantly learning the law (and many other things) is a joy. And once in a while you can win a case and the next call you get for another case is the party you just beat. You learn that winning is not everything but maintaining your integrity and ethics is. And you can sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and have an eureka moment where you suddently realize you have a great legal argument in a case that no one had thought of before.”</p>

<p>-that is exactly why i want to be a lawyer… justice :)</p>

<p>so your saying its either a top law school or none? so that means i have to work REALLY hard in college if i didn’t work that hard in high school…wow life is just a neevr ending cycle of WORK… i guess i can relax when I’m 60 when i retire… but I will prolly die before then and I won’t be a teenager again and have fun like I do now( partying, hanging out with girls..etc)… I guess I’m tired of studying hard and realizing that I won’t get into a good undergrad :(</p>

<p>Thanks for the insight drusba.</p>

<p>It’s not “top school or bust” if you want to work in the PD’s office or become a DA or something. The “top school or bust” mantra comes from those who want to get the 160,000 salaries that come with biglaw, where it helps to go to a top school. If you plan to be a lawyer to bring about “justice” then those biglaw jobs might not be for you, unless you consider helping draft the guidelines for one company to merge with another company “justice.”</p>

<p>It isn’t all courtroom work–husband is a corporate, tax atty and does VERY minimal courtroom work as he is not a litigator. He does however, help people to establish businesses (many doctors), writes pension plans, and general tax work. He does do a lot of writing. He is with a large firm. I will tell you that what he foresees as limiting is trying to establish balance with regard to billable hours–he is always having to decide if he should spend a couple of hours doing yard work himself, or pay someone to do it. Vacations are not truly vacations as he always must check his Voice mail/e-mail. He says he sells chunks of time of his life–it is not necessarily the way you want to live. Yes, there is good money–but the job is ALWAYS overshadowing you. Courtroom work (litigation) of course involves billable hours, but usually is more of a retainer fee situation. If you don’t like to argue/hear yourself talk, corporate/business law is one possibility. However, he does not generally encourage people to go to law school!</p>

<p>yeah…so to make the big money you have to work 60-70 hr weeks? o wow… work never ends…</p>

<p>… that’s a pretty severe underestimate.</p>

<p>LaxAttack- as we have discussed on other threads, even DA and other public sector jobs are hard to get these days. You better be at the top of your class at a Tier 2 school if you want a job. It’s tough out there.</p>

<p>It is NOT just the $160K plus jobs that require a top ranking or top ranked law school. It’s ALL legal jobs. What part of “lawyer glut” don’t you get?</p>

<p>People hate law because they do startlingly little research on what the basic job duties are and fool themselves that the money will make it worth it.</p>

<p>Not everyone hates practicing law. In fact, I would venture to say that many attorneys really enjoy practicing law, particularly when you look at attorneys more than five years out of law school (after a lot of the disillusioned want-to-be lawyers have left the practice of law). I really enjoy being an attorney. </p>

<p>I think that it is important, though, to go into law school and the practice of law with your eyes wide open, understanding the demands that come with the job, that the big money rewards exist for only a relatively small portion of the population of attorneys and that the competition for BIGLAW, in house, AG and DA jobs can be fierce. If you understand those things and you still want to practice law, then there is no reason not to seek a career as an attorney.</p>

<p>I’ve been reading a lot about law school and lawyers lately and what I’ve been hearing from different sites is really scaring me. As a lawyer what exactly do you do? Do you just fill out paper work and rarely get an interesting case? What kinds of lawyers have the most exciting job and good pay? From what I hear criminal law doesn’t get you much money. I thought criminal law sounded awesome until then. I’m not in it for the money, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t want to be spending 100 hours a week if I’m making a poor amount of money.</p>

<p>Yeh I have to agree with Licks. There are all these reports everywhere of lawyer satisfication. It doesn’t seem to be the case with doctors…or business people…etc. so is law in general a harder, more strenuous job? I don’t assume it’s going to be like court tv shows or that you’ll make a lot of money necessarily, but it’s seeming like such a turn off at this point. So I’m trying to look for reasons that it really isn’t that bad, and that there’s a good chance you can still be happy/successful if you do law.</p>

<p>sallyawp, does attorney = lawyer or is that a type of lawyer?</p>

<p>Attorney=Lawyer=Barrister=Solicitor (in certain places)</p>

<p>People hate law for the same reason people hate i-banking: they go into it not knowing what it’s about.</p>

<p>I like my job a lot. I have worked in-house for my entire career. I support business groups in a Fortune 200 corporation. I do HR work, some transactional work and support an interesting product group. I have been to business meetings at deer camps. I have designed warning labels that are seen on trucks all over the country (prior job). I have met interesting and unique people and have worked with outside counsel all over the country and world. I have tried a few small cases and have second-chaired many more. </p>

<p>It’s not all bad.</p>

<p>momofwildchild, by “it’s not all bad,” are you implying that most of it is bad, or a lot of it is bad, or it’s rare for lawyers to feel like it’s good? </p>

<p>Or…maybe my point is, would you recommend it? I consider myself a regular college kid at a top school…hardworking, (hopefully) intelligent, I’m more concerned with having a fulfilling career than a money-oriented one (I’d love the money if I felt like I did something fulfilling at the same time, not if it was handed to me or if I hated what I had to do to get it…whereas if I loved my job and felt like I was doing something meaningful I’d go for that as long I could live comfortably). I don’t know if any of that matters but…I’d love to hear your input.</p>

<p>As a headhunter for lawyers, I can say that there are many happy lawyers and many not so happy lawyers. The unhappy ones are perhaps more vocal. There seems to be greater job satisfaction outside the large law firm setting. I know many attorneys with small and mid-sized firms who love what they do. I know many in house lawyers who love what they do. There are certain practice areas that lead to burn out - litigation in particular. Some of the practice areas in which I see the greatest satisfaction include labor, real estate, estate planning, employee benefits and commercial transactions. I hesitate to include general corporate law simply because the hours can really be brutal there and that is the source of much dissatisfaction. I don’t work with criminal defense attorneys - except white collar crime - or domestic attorneys, so I can’t comment on those. I do work with one national plaintiff firm and the attorneys I have placed there love it.</p>

<p>darvit- I am very pleased with my career choice and liked my legal education. I think it serves you well in many areas of life. I don’t know what things are like now, since I went to law school pre-computer age, but I think if you like to read and write, law school is not a bad choice.
There are many career paths. I think one key thing is to try not to lock yourself in to something that might not be right for you. Allow some flexibility to change your path.</p>

<p>Years ago, it was the afternoon of Friday, December 23rd. My partner got a call from a banker client, sending him a new matter that HAD to close by year end. My partner worked late that night. He and his secretary worked all day on Saturday, December 24th. He and a reserve secretary worked all Christmas afternoon. He sent the loan documents out to the borrower and the borrower’s counsel on Monday morning, December 26th. The borrower looked at the stack of documents and said that it wasn’t urgent after all and he didn’t want to look at the documents during the holidays, so the deal was put on hold for a week.</p>

<p>That is the kind of thing that makes lawyers hate being lawyers.</p>

<p>I personally do not want the type of clients that call you on the afternoon of December 23rd, KNOWING that they are going to ruin your Christmas on a non-urgent matter. I may not make as much money as my partner, but I like being a lawyer.</p>

<p>I think the reason a lot of people hate it is partly because of the hours and stress, but mainly because they didn’t know/understand what they were getting themselves into. All my life, I was “headed” to law school (debate team, political groups, good at poli sci/bad at math, high LSAT, etc.) when in reality, that has little to do with law school itself and the practice of law. Reading very dry material (that I did not care about at all) for several hours a day, every day, was a HUGE shock, and I think to do well in law school and as a lawyer, you have to really want it.</p>