<p>^ I believe the quadratic formula can be derived with the use of the "complete the square" technique, something that is usually taught in an introductory algebra class.</p>
<p>When I took Geometry in the Dark Ages, all we did were proofs. I was shocked to see how little proof work happens in high school math these days.</p>
<p>Perhaps this summarizes your feelings, CD:
[quote]
- Teaching Math In 1950 A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Teaching Math In 1960
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?</p></li>
<li><p>Teaching Math In 1970
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?</p></li>
<li><p>Teaching Math In 1980
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.</p></li>
<li><p>Teaching Math In 1990
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class
participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers.)</p></li>
<li><p>Teaching Math In 2007
Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es $80...
[/quote]
;) :D</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Painfully accurate, Chaos.</p>
<p>I'm curious, now: given the...deterioration of mathematics teaching, how did you and others decide you loved math? Was there a special teacher, or an interesting book? (The Number Devil, for instance...)</p>
<p>Now that generated laughs from my math-hating kiddo (who knows enough Spanish to translate wihout the preceding text!)!</p>
<p>Why do you feel that way though?
I never experienced that feeling. On the contrary, I think that my IB Math HL class at my school is one of the most rewarding and challenging classes I've ever taken. Constant motivation, a lot of independent work expected by the students, just what it takes to get to love math. Do you think that the approach is not as challenging or as appropriate for this discipline?</p>
<p>I'm not entirely sure. In my experience, the thing that makes students drop-dead fall in love with math is all dependent on the approach and the subject matter. I fell in love after spending three weeks with a zany professor whose approach was to toss us crumbs and demand that we put things together to figure out and prove the basis behind our own intuition, and the content was an introductory study of a whole lot of fields at once--abstract algebra, surfaces and topology, combinatorics, and all kinds of wonderful mathematics. (And especially the number 17. If you don't understand that reference, don't ask; if you do--you'll probably agree with me. =) )</p>
<p>Debate_addict,
DS2 doesn't like math because he thinks he sucks at it. This is not the case. He took Alg II w/Functions as a 9th grader. One issue is that it doesn't come naturally and easily to him. He is a big-picture thinker, and sequential tasks are difficult for him to follow. The same thing happens to him in Spanish. On the other hand, he can discuss the history and politics of X civilzations across centuries and has no trouble keeping track of who did what to whom, and making really insightful and unusual observations. He is like me in terms of math; is good at it, doesn't love it enough to make a full-fledged effort to master it.</p>
<p>The other issue is that his older brother is a natural at math and DS2 thinks that if he can't compete successfully with him, then forget it. No matter how hard we try as parents to defuse the sibling rivalry, sometimes it's just hard-wired in there. Guess this is where one's desire to compete and succeed originate!</p>
<p>You're saying this to the wrong person (debate_addict!)..kiddin :p
Anyhow, I can't really help you with the sibling rivalry thing (I am gonna use my "i'm only 16 and have no siblings" card..), but I think that you can instill passion about math in DS2...it just takes the right approach, which the parent will eventually figure out...i guess....just brainstorming here...:)</p>
<p>I think people hate math because many of them have AWFUL teachers. I'm sorry, at least it is the case at my high school. I tutor math students and I ask them what their teacher taught them in class and a surprising number say "Nothing, he/she just wrote the homework problems on the board and told us to do it." </p>
<p>My geometry honors teacher was awful and it led me to absolutely abhor geometry (and math for a while). I had him the first semester (we were on block schedule) he taught and we went through 5 textbooks, at one point he was photocopying the chapters because the administration wouldn't let him buy any more books. That is just a glimpse of it (the couple math teachers I really respect didn't think he taught well either, one had her son take geometry in middle school so he wouldn't have the guy). </p>
<p>That being said, my opinion in math changed radically with my AP Calculus AB teacher (and later BC). He is absolutely amazing and you can tell he actually wants his students to understand math. Plus, he always challenged me so that I never got bored. I have always been good at math (geometry was the only math class I ever had where I had lower than a 97), but I never really loved it until I had this calculus teacher. He really opened my eyes to what math can be, and that it can be enjoyable. Because of that, I am leaning towards majoring in math. </p>
<p>So, from my experience, more than anything else the quality of teachers play an extremely important role in students' attitudes towards math. (Of course, you always have those who could care less even if they have great teachers, but I'm not refering to that)</p>
<p>YES, bad teachers. That's a hideously common reason for math anxiety.</p>
<p>My example:</p>
<p>My little sister's 5th grade teacher sends home a packet every week with math problems that she hasn't taught the kids to do. I guess she expects the kids to give up and ask her to explain, but this is the Challenge Class she's dealing with (it's the teacher's first year with Challenge), and those kids--the best in the school district--are not used to having to ask for help. So they all go home and cry over their math because they haven't been given the tools to do the problems, and it makes them feel stupid and resent the teacher. </p>
<p>THAT is what makes kids hate math. </p>
<p>Thankfully we have Saxon's Algebra 1/2 textbook at home, left over from when my brother and I were homeschooled, so over the summer my sister is working out of that so that she'll have some basic algebra skills when she enters 6th grade. ...Actually, the story is more like, my mom is making her work out of the book so that she (Mom) doesn't have to put up with my sister bawling every Thursday night about how she doesn't understand any of the math homework that's due on Friday. O_o</p>
<p>Because it is irrelevant to daily life. I will never need to do anything in my daily life involving quadratic formulas or properties. And any math that you do up to a certain level is done by computers anyway. So a lot of people find it a severe waste of time to complete a problem that took up a whole page when a computer does that plus thousands of more complex problems in the time that it took you to write down the problem.</p>
<p>It also has to deal with how its taught. For me books teach math in a very crappy way and a lot of teachers just reference to the book when they're teaching.</p>
<p>Even though I am good at math I find it highly irrelevant and dislike it very much. I think that algebra is enough, though if that was the case we would of never of made any ground breaking discoveries.</p>
<p>Ken, you CLEARLY haven't seen any mathematics behind what your school gave to you. Go on Wikipedia. Mathematics requires human creativity at a certain level, and not one completely inaccessible to a high school student.</p>
<p>I wish I had access to Wikipedia when I was younger. And yes - some people DO teach themselves math out of Wikipedia - it is fairly reliable for mathematics.</p>
<p>Of course, Wikipedia has few solved problems - but classroom teachers don't really solve problems on the board either (at least problem solving is not the main focus of them). Problem-solving wise, there aren't many resources for problem solving - and the few that are available aren't advertised very well - I only discovered AoPS in 9th grade (from a reply to a neurotic post of mine on the old CC Caltech boards) - and by that time I had too many other commitments to really do a focused self-study.</p>
<p>(though some of those commitments were ones I made up for myself - according to this pathetic plan I had. I never realized how easy it was to self-study APs or SAT IIs back then... - I thought that those would force me to eliminate math self-study - they didn't - but I wasted time on forums when I could have been studying math instead). And I lost so much time researching summer programs - when I should have realized that I would have learned far more out of focused self-study than out of any summer program. </p>
<p>I also took a CTY course - turns out that I didn't really use it for anything other than for turning in assignments. <em>sigh</em> It doesn't try to test anything "proof-y". It's just that I had too little imagination to realize how best to self-educate myself, and to prove my ability. </p>
<p>==</p>
<p>..hmm...I learned a lot from some of my more neurotic posts.</p>
<p>I'm bumping this thread up.</p>
<p>I disagree with those who think your teacher has little to nothing to do with your teacher. Math already can be complex and a lot to remember. When you mix in the point Ken made and personalities, it can make for a truly painful experience.</p>
<p>I do believe that a big part of the reason we don't understand and thus dislike Math is because, as a body of concepts, we don't see them every day. A lot of people don't analyze data that way.</p>
<p>Math does require some creativity when attempting to explain concepts, theories, etc. It doesn't require the same creativity language and art requires. With Math, you have data, and you have all these different formulas and processes that you can use to express and manipulate that data. With language and art, you don't necessarily have a concise piece of data. You have an idea and you can use your skills to express that idea.</p>
<p>The difference is language and art don't have such strict rules to follow.</p>
<p>it's too hard for me to understand</p>
<p>I don't hate math... I'm completely neutral towards Mathematics. My school teaches math in a very noncreative way (luckily, my teacher this year was a VERY good one... but even she didn't approach math very creatively). I never feel challenged in Math- I've easily managed an A+ throughout Pre-Calc. But, due to the fact that I DON'T feel challenged by my math courses, I simply have no interest in it. I realize that there are challenging and interesting things for me to learn... but, a love for mathematics and that sort of learning (logical) in general just hasn't been instilled in me. Hopefully, Calc BC (the highest math class my school offers... ugh) will be more challenging.</p>
<p>
^OF course math explains how things work. Now, how would you explain how the world works?
</p>
<p>Mathematics would be pretty damn useful, seeing as how the universe is basically just a mathematical model.</p>
<p>It seems as if the American high school system is not very good at teaching mathematics compared to the British system (which I have taken a look at). From the looks of it, the British system is much better at actually teaching students to THINK. You are required to do proofs, which gives you the ability to understand what mathematics really is.</p>
<p>Oops, that should say "proofs in more complex areas".</p>
<p>I hated math in high school but loved it once I got into college and took (or should I say retook) Calculus I. Math is very logical in its approach and, at least at the lower level, there's typically a definite answer. I prefer that.</p>