<p>
So you just challenged me to prove for nothing a statement that you didn’t doubt.
But yes, I wish to speak no more on the subject.</p>
<p>Yes, we are all aware of the futility of internet debates.</p>
<p>My primary objection was to the statement "“Humans’ will to live is so great that they will fight to live on in the face of ordeals,” and I pointed out that suicide is an exception to this idea.</p>
<p>Then you went and posted a bunch of nonsense that had nothing to do with anything really, but some of which I found to contain unsound reasoning, which I pointed out as I saw it. That is all.</p>
<p>I can’t tell if feareman was joking, but if he wasn’t, I’d like to address the overwhelmingly pathetic pompousness in his post: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>BEING AN ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC IS NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO ONE’S INTELLIGENCE (and if you were as intelligent as you think you are, you would know that “the church” does not influence many religions)</p>
<p>I assure you that plenty of people who are more intelligent than you have come to the conclusion that they want to follow religion. Atheists and agnostics are not inherently more intelligent than religious people, and vice versa.</p>
<p>But if you were kidding then you can ignore this.</p>
<p>I believe in the existence of the concept of “God”. The one used by church leaders in the ancient times in order to unite people together so that there will be less crime and rebellion and all that stuff unfavorable to those in power.</p>
<p>However, now that science and politics has advanced to our current level, we no longer need the concept of “God” to rule over one another.
And if God is truly the one who created us to begin with, he should be happy now that his subjects (Humans) are all grown up and no longer need his holy powers to survive. </p>
<p>Oh, thank you God the holy all mighty being, however your role as the dominant ruler of humanity is now over, for we have obtained the power of science. Your mysterious and enigmatic powers are no longer needed, please hurry up and retire so that humans (the new generation) can take over the universe. Again, we are grateful for whatever you have done to help us up to now.</p>
<p>I think the better question is why do people NOT believe what can be proven by science?</p>
<p>^ Nothing can be proven by science.</p>
<p>Things that can be proven by science: 0</p>
<p>Things that can be proven by mathematics: ∞</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>The better question is why did you sodemize your principal?</p>
<p>Answer that one.</p>
<p>
You’re actually wrong on both accounts.</p>
<p>For the latter, see Godel’s theorem.
For the former: Scientific laws and theories formed in conclusions only describe and do not explain the concepts behind them, true, but they do explain phenomena with precision startling at times and absolute at others, which is a whole lot more than religion does. For example, given the necessary conditions, gravity causes an apple to drop perforce. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First, you have yet to point out any flaws in my reasoning.
Second, the “bunch of nonsense” is only tangentially relevant to my “humans’ will…,” yes, but nonetheless relevant. Also, whatever followed
also defeated them. Unless I did err in my reasoning, but merely saying that I did without specifying at which points is insufficient. </p>
<p>As for my original claim, it can be summarized thus: when present, the will is indomitable. Without the will, people may succumb to ordeals. As I have already proven that living and the will to live are rational, they are present in the rational human being everyone is born as, and can only be removed if their host is convinced otherwise theoretically in the three ways Plato said they may be whereby convinced, and realistically in only one of them.</p>
<p>Okay, before reading what i have to say, realize that this is my opinion and is no way meant to be taken offensively.
Let me say that I do NOT believe in Jesus Christ. Out of all religions, I personally think that christianity is the stupidest, but most successful only because of its cult-like ways. Jesus was a freaking dude wandering around way back then, (along with other people doing the same thing), begging people to join his “religion” and worship him. For one, god wouldn’t tell people to worship him.
Secondly, which god out there would punish the gays? What god out there says “If you dont bow down to me now, you’ll go to hell”. I dont think anyone who says that is a god; they are a demon. People should do good because they genuinely want to do good, not because they think theyll be rewarded for it later on.
Do you even know how religion came about? People wanted to control other people, so they claimed they had a link to god and should be kind. They claimed visions and other supernatural things.
There is no proof towards christianity. Here is the proof against it: Why has nobody in the history of the world (other than the bible) reported the supernatural things jesus did? If he really did things that affected the entire world, i am quite sure Plato, Socrates, or one of the other scholars would have written about it! (I read an AP paper about this once, too bad i dont remember the title. If you ever do manage to find it, it is a very logical good read)
The fact that christianity is so pervasive and people are trying to convert others bugs me too. They’re like new vegetarians, constantly trying to convert everyone else. Only difference is that vegetarians realize they cant convince the world after a year or so. Christians just attempt to do it more subtly after a year or so. </p>
<p>As for me, Im not completely sure what my religious beliefs are. I do believe that there is something out there more powerful than humans, and I HOPE that its some kind of god who listens to our prayers and helps us in times of need, but i dont know. I also like to think that there is some kind of life force that exists among the dead. I feel like science will prove me wrong though…but i also know how healthy religion is for a person so I try not to let science win. I also think that we will not and should not know the answers; what humans would do with such knowledge scares me!</p>
<p>^Wow, that post fails so hard that I just don’t know what to say.
“i am quite sure Plato, Socrates, or one of the other scholars would have written about it!”
Epic lawlz.</p>
<p>^ err what?
When the entire sky turned black or something, nobody marked it down anywhere but the bible. And i dont know the specific events that happened, or exactly when they did, but i do know that there were some scholars alive (im too tired to remember their names now) during times when the entire world was supposedly affected
gosh dang it…why didnt i write down the name. it was such a well written article too! Maybe someday ill dig through all the AP english archives and find it.</p>
<p>Socrates and Plato died several hundred years before Jesus was born. I’d say that’s a pretty good reason why they didn’t write about Jesus.</p>
<p>Also, pretty much everything else you claimed is complete BS.</p>
<p>^It’s the “precocious” elementary school version of Religion. It’s really stupid.</p>
<p>Also, honestly, proving that Christianity is false is not equivalent to disproving the existence of God</p>
<p>I choose you, Mifune!</p>
<p>OOPS not plato. I do apologize for that stupid error on my part. I did mean ptolemy, pliny the elder, and others who lived around the time from 0 CE to 100 CE, when according to the bible </p>
<p>and @Cela
The OP did say “I cannot understand why some people do not believe in God, in Jesus Christ our Savior.”
I never mentioned that I dont believe in god. I merely mentioned that I disapprove of christianity, for reasons already stated. Obviously, this board and thread is very biased (mostly christian asians i think), and the majority of people who discuss anti-christianity on the internet are inarticulate (such as I to some extent, when im on cc half asleep :P), so christianity generally wins. All I am saying is to be a little more open minded, and do question the “what if god isnt real?” Understand an atheists viewpoint, and respect it (dont tell them theyll go to hell if they fail to believe in god) </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>^ Ptolemy was born 60 years after Jesus’s death, and Pliny was a little kid at the time. lived halfway across a continent, and only his scientific writings have survived… I think maybe the guy you’re looking for is [url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus]Josephus[/url”>Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia]Josephus[/url</a>].</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…and my comment would imply that I agree with that. I’m sure my religious views are just as unorthodox as yours. And most of my friends are Atheists, so I can’t really identify with Christians winning most arguments. In fact, as I’ve enumerated somewhere in either this thread or the other one, I think that the failures of Christianity have led precisely to its being overtaken in numbers by Atheism, and this is the basis of my comment. To believe in something because you find one of the alternatives distasteful isn’t based in logic. Again, as I know I’ve said somewhere, Atheism is just as blinding in its prejudice as Christianity, and both commit the evil of depriving millions of human beings of having beliefs authentic to themselves.</p>
<p>I’m not saying my own opinion either way, I’m just gonna put this quote up from Epicurus who was probably way smarter than any of us will ever be.</p>
<p>“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”</p>