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<p>Sorry, it was just bothering me so much.</p>
<p>Are Jews going to hell? Are Muslims? Are peaceful Buddhists going to hell? Just those three religions alone constitute 3.7 billion people. Why is a god who is supposed to be an all loving god sending those people, who overwhelmingly topple Christians in numbers, going to hell when this god’s love in unconditional?</p>
<p>If you were born in Afghanistan, you’d most likely be a Koran wielding Muslim fundamentalist, if you were born in Nepal, you’d probably be a Buddhist contemplating a karma free life, but you were born in western influenced USA.</p>
<p>Use logic, god doesn’t exist, neither did Jesus.</p>
<p>“Use logic, god doesn’t exist, neither did Jesus.”</p>
<p>I don’t have first-hand evidence, but according to all the religion teachers I’ve had for the past 5-6 years, there is tangible proof that Jesus existed.</p>
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<p>Too bad there’s nothing like, say, predestination to rationalize this. I guess all religious beliefs are false after all.</p>
<p>If some sort of God exists, he/she/it is an *******. Or just doesn’t care about us. I don’t care what any of these religions preach, about God being loving and whatnot; it clearly is not true. I mean, look at all these disasters.
It is for this reason I choose to not believe in God. Even if he/she/it exists, he/she/it has done nothing to merit my belief in him/her/it.</p>
<p>Because they don’t want to</p>
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<p>This isn’t true at all, and especially not if your name is mifune. I’m nowhere near his level of braininess. I don’t agree with fundamentalist Christianity at all, although the more open-minded Christians who don’t feel the need to trash science to make their delusions more supportable are okay.</p>
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<p>Incorrect because it depends on where you go. In America only 2% or so call themselves atheist. Another 13-15% call themselves non-religious in some form or another. In Sweden, China and other mostly non-religious countries non-believers are not a fringe group. </p>
<p>As far as Christians are concerned, you’re part of a fringe group with your narrow view on things (evolution denying fundamentalist, belief that the Earth could be 6,000 yrs old, etc). Mainstream Christians accept evolution (or don’t care about it) and take the Bible as metaphorical instead of literal.</p>
<p>Because they are free to their own opinions. Don’t worry about it.</p>
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<p>However, the survey which we were discussing was not given to Chinese or Swedes. in America, Atheism is a fringe group, and therefore American Atheists, like any fringe group, will tend to know more about the relevant issues.</p>
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<p>This is certainly true. Therefore, like anyone who is part of a fringe group, I know more about the relevant issues than a person who does not constantly have to defend his views from the mainstream tends to know.</p>
<p>However, the parts of my views that are fringe might not be the things that you think:</p>
<p>-evolution denying: Me and a majority of Americans.</p>
<p>-belief that the Earth could be 6,000 yrs old: nearly half of Americans believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. I believe it could be.</p>
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<p>Evangelicals (the largest Christian group in the US) reject evolution by an overwhelming majority. Only slightly more than half of Catholics, and mainline Protestants accept it. If “mainstream Christians” accept evolution, then mainstream Christians are a small minority.</p>
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<p>What do you mean by “metaphorical” and “literal”? I believe that the Bible is true. I believe that its historical accounts reflect actual events, and I believe that the quoted words in it were actually spoken by the people they are attributed to, allowing for translation errors. I believe that its prophecy and poetry has actual meaning, and is not just mythological rambling.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that, for example, that a 4-horned goat will come and trample the nations. I do believe that a person named Daniel actually saw that vision when living in ancient Persia, and that that vision had real significance.</p>
<p>But for what it is worth, the vast majority of American Christians consider the Bible God-inspired, and a sizable percentage (about a third) fall enough towards literal on the metaphor-to-literal scale that they will say the the Bible is the “actual Word of God, to be taken literally”.</p>
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<p>Well 40-45% according to the most surveys. About the same accept it. Another fraction don’t know or don’t care enough to have an opinion. The Scandinavian countries are in the 80-90% acceptance range with 2%-<10% denial.</p>
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<p>It’s important to remember that the U.S., despite all the progress we’ve made, is still almost near the top as far as scientific ignorance goes. One of five think the Sun rotates around the Earth, some still think the Earth is flat, almost half think the Earth is 6K-10K years of age and almost half think evo is false. I’m sorry but that is some serious ignorance. It’s really sad when you think about it. What’s even more sad is when people don’t realize it.</p>
<p>This is an article from the NYT — [Morals</a> Without God? - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Morals Without God? - The New York Times”>Morals Without God? - The New York Times)</p>
<p>Some quotes from it that are all too true:</p>
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<p>For example, most Christians don’t accept as fact that the universe, the earth and life were created in six literal days. </p>
<p>So you believe in things like Noah’s Ark; a random guy was chosen to load his boat with all the animals on Earth when the flood occurred? (We can prove by geological evidence that the flood never occurred.) How about belief in the tale that the sun stopped in place for Joshua? You believe that Eve was made from a rib? It takes some serious indoctrination to believe that stuff.</p>
<p>The slightly less “than half of Catholics” who reject evolution do so based on their personal beliefs, not through any understanding of church doctrine.</p>
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<p>Ok then. No matter which survey you chose, not accepting evolution as irrefutably true is hardly a fringe belief. Even accepting it as irrefutably false (which I do not) is the belief of a very large portion of the population.</p>
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<p>And some still think they can save gas by driving faster. So what? Any belief is going to have a few ignorant people who believe it.</p>
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<p>Incidentally, Germany and Great Britain, both of which have overwhelming evolution acceptance, both did worse than the US on the question: only 74% of Britons and 69% of Germans answered correctly. ([source](<a href=“New Poll Gauges Americans' General Knowledge Levels”>http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx)</a>)</p>
<p>I argue that any population will include a large number of ignorant people, due to the fact that a large number of people are ignorant.</p>
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<p>A few minutes ago you said my views were fringe beliefs. Now, you’re quoting the very statistics I gave you and saying that almost half of America holds these fringe beliefs.</p>
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<p>Strictly speaking, it’s an opinion blog on the NYTimes website. However, I can snip quotes too!</p>
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<p>For the most part, that article was reasonable. It pointed out a lot of flaws in things I don’t believe, and affirmed a lot of things which I do believe. The author, obviously, takes a different viewpoint than me, but he isn’t unreasonable in the way he presents it.</p>
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Did they take into account people being sarcastic? I find it hard to believe that anyone with even a primary school education could have too much trouble with this.</p>
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<p>44% of adults nationwide, including all beliefs, do. I’d guess that the proportion among Christians is higher. ([source](<a href=“http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm]source[/url]”>Science and Nature)</a>)</p>
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<p>I believe there was a man named Noah (or whatever was transliterated to Noah), who built a massive floating structure in which he and his family survived a cataclysm which destroyed the rest of humanity.</p>
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<p>Not all the animals on Earth. Rather, a small fraction of the animals on Earth, carefully chosen to preserve as much as possible of the genomes of their respective kinds. there were probably one pair of dogs, one or two pairs of cats, one pair of pachyderms, etc.</p>
<p>The story itself (that 4 men and their families were able, over 100 years, to construct a vessel which could hold themselves, the entire genome of the earth, and a year’s supply of food through a global-scale flood) is quite feasible, indeed, far more so than the flood legends of other religions.</p>
<p>Most geologists do not accept the possibility of a cataclysim of this scale, which is why I do not claim to have scientific proof for Noah’s flood. This contrasts with Naturalistic Evolution, which I feel quite confident in rejecting.</p>
<p>But lest you think I am in the lunatic fringe to even consider the story, a majority of Americans believe it, including more than a fourth of self-described “non-religious” people. ([source](<a href=“http://www.icrsurvey.com/studies/947a1%20Views%20of%20the%20Bible.pdf]source[/url]”>http://www.icrsurvey.com/studies/947a1%20Views%20of%20the%20Bible.pdf)</a>)</p>
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<p>I don’t see how it would even be possible to account for sarcasm… But not everyone even finishes high school, and if you aren’t on a college track then you don’t really have to learn anything to get by.</p>
<p>You know, there was a big bang…and fossils…and stars…</p>
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<p>You’re very good at making circles with things. Again, depends on where you go. If you’re in the U.S. or Turkey you’re going to get a lot of evo deniers. Even within America there are huge differences. Go to the south or rural areas you will get more uneducated people and therefore more and more deniers. In northern parts and in urban environments you’ll get less. Evolution denial is a fringe group among bishops, cardinals, and theologians, for example. Most importantly, denial is unheard of among evolutionary biologists — the people who immerse themselves in the literature and evidence and therefore the ones qualified to make judgments about it. There’s a massive difference between a biologist and yourself, with your distorted view of science.</p>
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<p>Again, see above. You already admitted that your narrow view of things was a fringe belief now you’re trying to argue that it isn’t?</p>
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<p>Because you are very ignorant when it comes evolution as you demonstrated many times over in the other thread. If you understood it and put aside your pack of lies and listened (instead of thinking that you have the answer to everything) you could actually learn something. But <em>nothing</em> will ever change your mind.</p>
<p>None of the quotes you picked out from the article do anything to support your position. He never said once that morality comes from a guy in the sky or that you need religion to be moral.</p>
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<p>That is irrelevant to the fact that disbelief in evolution is not a fringe view in America.</p>
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<p>That may be true of Bishops and Cardinals. I’d be suprised if it were true of theologians. However, I cannot find any data on them. Where did you read this?</p>
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<p>Interestingly, also the people who would not be getting paychecks if evolution were proven false.</p>
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<p>Actually, what I said was:</p>
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<p>Specifically, I have fringe views on such subjects as foul language (I avoid even mild euphemisms), relationships (unlike the mainstream, I don’t agree with "serial dating), divorce (I think marriage is for life), extramarital sex (it’s wrong), and carbonated drinks (I don’t like them).</p>
<p>On such subjects as evolution, the age of the earth, and the truth of the Bible, I am not fringe, unless your definition of “fringe” is “10 percentage points aways from me”.</p>
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<p>Actually, this one here states my position exactly:</p>
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<p>If you want to take the U.S. as a grand, major category then there is a large percentage. If you turn this category into “college-educated Americans,” for example, then we’ll start seeing evolution denial’s statistical demise. European nations are more enlightened and more so among the northern nations. In Asian countries evo denial would be a fringe thing. America is pretty much on par with the Muslim nations (or even slightly better since Islam is mostly a creationist religion).</p>
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<p>In a book I read by R. Dawkins. Strict and particularly evangelical theologians are the ones most disdainful of evolution.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately for you and everyone else living in their creationist fantasy worlds, the amount of evidence and findings supporting biological evolution increases by the day. Evolution is fact. You have to be pretty darn resistant to reason, evidence, statistical data and observation to believe otherwise. There was a ton of info written about it the other thread and you have to be really biased and agenda-like to still be “unconvinced.” The fact is that you don’t want it to be true; you almost certainly grow up in a creationist family and you’ve been taught that it isn’t ever since you first heard about it.</p>
<p>Just curious, do you really belief that divorce is never permitted? Or do you believe that marriage should be for life? Most agree with the latter. It’d be really dangerous though if divorce wasn’t tolerated.</p>
<p>Also, why do you think homosexuality is wrong (you mentioned it earlier)? You can’t create in such relationships but what makes it morally wrong?</p>