Why do we care about money so much?

<p>I'm a senior in high school and am currently applying to a lot of private schools. My family needs financial aid and/or loans to send me off to college. I'm wondering- why do people cringe at loans? If you were accepted into your dream school, without a lot of financial aid, wouldn't you still want to attend? Would you really turn it down because the money wasn't enough? Aren't loans always available?! </p>

<p>Maybe I'm ignorant. Maybe some of you guys can comment and enlighten me. My parents never talked about money much. Perhaps because I'm not a very materialistic person, so I don't need a lot of cool clothes (it might be 3 years since I've last gone clothes shopping impulsively), nor do I go to the movies, or to amusement parks, or whatever. I even choose to take the bus to school instead of having my parents drive me. Anyway, I'm just thinking I wouldn't mind living at the bare minimum after college just so I could pay off the loans. As long as I have my family, friends, food, and a job that I love, I will be happy. </p>

<p>Am I BSing myself, or what? Do some of you also feel this way? Or maybe there are parents on this forum that can give advice? I would appreciate any criticism or different perspectives. I'm a teenager, and I know I don't have a lot of experience being independent.</p>

<p>Well if you get jacked by the system and cant land a job that non-waiveable student loan is for lack of a better word, a (slang for female dog), so honestly it seems you dont really understand how it works, these people can theoretically speaking TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING YOU OWN and or THROW YOU IN JAIL IF YOU CAN’T PAY THEM!</p>

<p>That means your car,house and any other valuable thing, and the worst part is that you can’t file bankruptcy on it.</p>

<p>So dont take out more loans than you need.</p>

<p>Not quite Ultimablade.</p>

<p>A student loan is an unsecured loan. If you are sued if you do not pay, a judgment will be entered against you. The collector can then execute on the judgment, and based on state laws with some federal protections, the execution can include a lien against property and garnishment of bank accounts or wages. Many items are exempt from attachment or garnishment, including most items of personal property valued under a certain amount and a percentage of wages and accounts, some retirement accounts, other investments.</p>

<p>There are no debtor’s prisons anymore, although you could go to jail for contempt of court if you fail to cooperate.</p>

<p>But repaying loans is no fun. After college all your friends will be starting careers, buying houses and cars and traveling. If you think you’ll be happy living a minimalist existence and paying back loans, borrow away.</p>

<p>When you have a lot of debt it hangs over you. What if you lose your job? (I was laid off 3 times in 7 years.) What if you get married and have a baby and want to take time off (or your SO wants to take time off) to raise the kid(s) but you can’t manage to pay the bills and loan payments unless you both work full time? Maybe you want to buy a house instead of renting, but the amount of house you can buy is limited because you are making school loan payments. Maybe you need a new car.<br>

I don’t think you are realizing the amount of time potentially involved. Are you willing to live at the bare minimum for 10 YEARS? Maybe not. Maybe you will want to get married, but a house, buy new cars, have a baby. But you are saddled with these massive loans and just have to live in your parents basement.</p>

<p>I thought this thread was going to be about " why do we want our degree to guarantee us a good living"?
:wink:
But yes, taking out loans that require a cosigner, will severely limit the options you will have after graduation.
Its also unlikely that you will have a job that you love - not all the time anyway, immediately after graduation.
You wont be able to be that choosey, because you will have those bills to pay.</p>

<p>*If you were accepted into your dream school, without a lot of financial aid, wouldn’t you still want to attend? Would you really turn it down because the money wasn’t enough? Aren’t loans always available?! *</p>

<p>Enough loans are not (thankfully) always available.</p>

<p>YOU can only borrow the following amounts on your own:</p>

<p>5500 frosh
6500 soph
7500 jr
7500 sr</p>

<p>To borrow more (which can be very foolish) would require QUALIFIED cosigners each year (and they’d have to be requalified each time).</p>

<p>I don’t think you understand how hard it is to pay back large loans. You may think that you can live on air, but right now your parents are paying for most of your expenses. Once you have your own place after you graduate and are working, you’re going to have to pay for:</p>

<p>rent
utilities
cable
internet
cell phone
food
clothes
car
gas
car repairs
car insurance
health insurance
entertainment (dating?)
plus various other things.</p>

<p>You won’t be able to live off the “bare minimum” unless you live in your parents’ basement for ten years. ;)</p>

<p>@two thanks for your insight, still student loans are VERY bad.</p>

<p>The Direct Loan max for four years is about $27,000. This would be a monthly payment of about $300 a month for 10 years. In my opinion, this is the maximum loan amount an undergrad should take, and is manageable. </p>

<p>If it is possible to attend college debt free, of course that would be a better choice. But that is not always possible with the costs of college these days. </p>

<p>A community college, with the student residing at home, would be able to be funded with the Direct Loan (for tuition) for two years. </p>

<p>Honestly (to the above poster), these are not bad loans, a college education will likely increase your earning potential.</p>

<p>firemist,</p>

<p>You might find this current thread interesting & informative:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1603237-telling-kid-you-cant-afford-their-dream-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1603237-telling-kid-you-cant-afford-their-dream-college.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Nope. Nope, nope, nope. </p>

<p>Have you ever had a job? Had to do a budget? </p>

<p>I’m not a materialistic person. Not in the slightest. I make cringe-worthy little money compared to most. However, that doesn’t mean I want to see a very, very large portion of my check go away for the next 10+ years just so I can “live the dream” for four years.</p>

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<p>Well, you have to decide whether the benefits of going to your “dream school” exceed the costs of taking out loans. The other posters have addressed the subject of loans. </p>

<p>Regarding the benefits of going to your “dream school” – quite frankly, most colleges are about the same. The class sizes are about the same, the profs come from the same top schools, they use the same textbooks, and so on. The differences between schools come in the form of the smarts of the other students (but more smarts means you will be less of a standout); the quality of the dorms; the amount of funds available for tutoring and advising; and so on. </p>

<p>High school students tend to romanticize colleges. Don’t do that!</p>

<p>^ You are right about most colleges are “about the same”. While we don’t want to admit it, though. </p>

<p>Just read through CC. You will see that the Chem Eng degree from Podunk U and Harvard quite frankly have the same starting pay at the entry level job. In some cases you may be more likely to get the job because you went to Harvard, but once you do, you’ll make the same as the guy who didn’t. </p>

<p>Loans and credit card bills (loans) are very difficult to manage, especially for a new (unemployed or underemployed) graduate… or even for those of us in our 40s who overspent while there was income and now struggle when there is not. </p>

<p>If you can afford Podunk U that offers your degree and cannot afford Harvard that offers your degree… choose Podunk U and make the most of the opportunities available, or create new opportunities. The experience is yours to make and live. Remember that college is about education… it’s not about partying.</p>

<p>thank you for taking the time to honestly respond!</p>

<p>A very old friend, dear friend, close friend is in ruins financially because she signed onto her daughter’s dream of going to a school they could not afford without a lot of loans. She considered it an investment into her DD’s future. Now the debt has grown to over $200K–they borrowed around $90K and they can’t even pay back the interest. DD is working part time at a coffee shop and some other jobs as she can find them Can’t make ends meet. This is a true situation and not unique.</p>

<p>My son has had a lot of financial issues after college as he took the poor starving artist route. But school loans is not one of them as he didn’t have them. A lot of kids who took them are in so much trouble as I can tell you, he, nor they, can pay back penny one. A lot of them went to NYU as an “investment” and they owe more money than they will make in years unless they hit a big time lottery in life or the ticket.</p>

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<p>While I would NEVER encourage a student to take on debt beyond the Direct Loan max cited previously, I don’t think this is really true either. </p>

<p>A lot of this will depend on what the various schools are you’re considering. It’s rarely a choice between Podunk U. and Harvard! (Harvard, BTW, if you can get admitted, will provide a family of modest means a very generous financial aid award and would be a tremendous value for most middle- and lower-middle class families.)</p>

<p>Since you’re talking ‘dream schools’ here, I’m going to make the assumption, for the sake of argument, that you’re a high-stats student. If that’s the case, and you really want to know what your best options are, you’ll need to complete the net price calculators for each school you’re interested in and then apply and see what’s offered to you. The schools with the lowest sticker prices won’t necessarily be the cheapest FOR YOU. </p>

<p>When I was applying to college in the late 70s, it was cheaper for me to attend the private Penn (because of the generous financial aid I was awarded) than it was to go to the public Temple, which offered me entrance to their honors program but zero FA. Until my senior year, that is, when Pres. Reagan did away with the National Direct Student Loan program. The debt service on my senior year was equal to the previous three years combined because of the difference in loan rates. Should I have walked away from Penn and completed my degree at Temple? Maybe, but it worked out for me in the end; I had a job offer at graduation (with an English degree!) and made my final loan payment at age 27, a month before I got married. </p>

<p>I would not have taken those bank loans for a second year, however. That would have been too much debt for me.</p>

<p>And while I know plenty of students who withdrew from Penn and completed their degrees at Temple, they were always for academic, not financial, reasons. Both of these schools are fine institutions but there is no way, at that time, the two schools were “about the same.” That’s just absurd.</p>

<p>A smart, well-prepared student will do well at most schools, and one has to weigh the relative value of attending a more selective school to a less selective one, and it’s a complicated calculus for most families, but it’s not as simple as cheaper is always better. I’d rather have a brand new Lexus than a brand new Chevy, because the Lexus is a far superior car. But if I can’t afford a Lexus, I’ll look for a used Toyota or Subaru before I’ll buy a new Chevy! Unless you can’t afford to pay anything, VALUE is the key.</p>

<p>OP. Since you describe yourself as non materialistic, you are exactly the person that should avoid loans. If you take loans, you will have to factor them into your post college decisions. One of the posters mentioned the possibility of not greeting a job. How about having to turn down a dream job because it doesn’t pay enough to cover your loans? Now you are forced into a job with all the materialistic trappings that you don’t desire.</p>

<p>I am not about to say all schools are the same. The prestige, panache, amenties of some of the top schools like Harvard have all kinds of benefits that will last over the years. How much that is worth, however is in question. If you can afford the differential, well and good, but when you and your family cannot without a financial sacrifice that can take it’s toll, one needs to take that into heavy consideration.</p>

<p>Maybe the stories of dad taking a third job or mom cleaning Port-A-Johns so that the kid can go to the otherwise unaffordable college of choice makes you swell up in tears of pride. Not me. I wouldn’t wish that on my parents for ANY college. HPY–any college. And I question the integrity of anyone who is so selfish to do so. Yes, that’s an extreme example, but you know where I am going. If you know your family is not doing so well financially, and you pick an option that is putting a huge financial burden on them, it can be a major issue. And shame on you. </p>

<p>Yes, there are advantages to living in an upscale neighborhood in a beautiful clean lined house. Driving a mercedes or Lexus has it’s advantages over a Kia, over some used cars that are less expensive. The local colleges that are not ranked or mentioned do not have the same feel, repution ,etc as the those that do and when you get into the reputation, ranking, recognition, I’m not about to say they are all the same. </p>

<p>The question comes down to the tradeoffs. For those for whom costs the same or near the same or even less to go to Private U over Local State U, of course, go at it. But for some kids, the parents are already in enough of a financial hole so that what the calculators say they have to pay, they cannot without damages. So they are not going to get financial aid, and merit is very hard to get at the top schools as many of them do not even have that option. So it becomes a matter of making a decision as to what the best choice for all loved ones is in the long term.</p>

<p>I just recently went to an awards dinner for a local college grad who became a Rhodes Scholar from this little known college. She could have gone to any number of schools and was accepted to an ivy but chose to go there. Did very well there, I daresay, better than most of her peers who went to the ivy. Far, far better. Water does tend to rise to its level. As far as she’s concerned, the competition to get the Rhodes from other schools would have diminished her chances of getting it. Her profs at the college went full court press for her as she was a shining light at that school whereas she would have likely been one of many at the top schools. SO there are advantages to choosing a smaller pond.</p>

<p>Right now the kids who are employed in my area are the ones who chose career type majors like accounting, nursing, tech at some local schools and they are outstripping those who had no such options at some of the schools that are nearly all liberal arts in their choices. The differential will abate over time, but it sure is not a bragging right now. And many will have to throw in more money to get some certification on the old resume to land some job. </p>

<p>Studies have shown that those accepted to the top schools and choose otherwise tend to do just as well as their peers who made the elite choice, and I believe it. You lose bragging rights and some lustre ,yes. Being an ivy or some of the other well known schools grad does have some class implication, I agree and can open some doors some times. But not as much as the damage the cost can do for those who could not afford it. I 've seen this in a two generation cycle now. </p>

<p>And I am writing this as one who would ,oh, so love to have a kid graduate from one of the name schools. So I know the feeling. Emotion is pretty danged powerful and can overshadow facts.</p>

<p>I guess it depends on what Podunk U it is…and how podunk it is for your major. lol</p>

<p>For most students, being an El-Ed major, it won’t matter where you go. As for ChemE, there are “directionals” (which some may call Podunk) that have very strong programs in particular majors, perhaps ChemE, because that REGION has many ChemE jobs.</p>

<p>There is a “3rd tier” univ by my home. Some might call it podunk. However, it is very strong in engineering, sciences, nursing, and business…because of the local industries. It may not be the place to major in French Lit, but if you’re instate and you want to be an eng’r for a low price, then go for it.</p>

<p>When an eng’r from that school is job-hunting, he competes very well with the other applicants from the so-called better schools because the region KNOWS that the eng’g program is strong.</p>

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<p>This strikes me as the sort of statement only made by someone who’s never been really poor. Let’s suppose you go to your dream school, and there are no good jobs when you graduate, so you end up working at the Gap for 7.50 an hour. You’ve got a $1000 a month in non-bankruptible student loans. How will you feel when:</p>

<p>1) You crack or knock out your front tooth and it’ll cost $1500 to $3000 to repair it?
2) Your dog needs veterinary care to the tune of $600 or more?
3) A loved one is dying/getting married/having a baby and wants to see you - the plane ticket will cost $800 round trip?
4) The girl/boy of your dreams is a four hour public transportation ride away but only 25 minutes by car?
5) It snows a couple of feet each winter and last year’s boots and jacket have large holes in them?</p>

<p>All this to say - don’t take on usurious loans. They’re just not necessary if you come from a stable family situation. There’s nothing wrong with going community college/state school route. You may still have some loans but leave yourself enough room so you can build a life.</p>

<p>Yes, On thecollegehunt has listed a whole lot of possibilities. My son lost his back pack with books, notes, and glasses. Wore contacts, and then got an eye infection or something and couldn’t wear them Getting replacement glasses ASAP cost a whole lot of money. My filling fell out and part of my tooth broke with it. Root canal, and cap needed. If you are poor, they’ll pull it most likely. It costs my son close to $15 round trip to come vist us, less than 15 miles away and for him, who is flat broke much of the time, it’s an issue. You lose your cell phone, your car needs a high priced repair. If you own a home and something breaks that needs professional attention.? Even with health insurance there are the copays and deductibles to pay. </p>

<p>When it really hits hard and can hurt is when you have kids. ANd you can’t provide things their peers have.</p>