<p>It seems that some peoples' objections to home schooled kids is that they don't conform to the norm.
What price do kids in traditional schools have to pay for their smooth "fitting in"?
How many adults would submit to jobs where they were not allowed to talk to their co-workers? Where they had to seek permission to move their bowels? Where they had to shuffle from room to designated room at the sound of a bell?
When my kids were in school, I couldn't understand why they came home with un-eaten lunches. I finally understood that that was the only time they were allowed to talk to each other. Our public high school plays marches on the intercom at full volume between classes. They don't want the students to interact. Chicago, Illinois, USA.
Not Jonestown. Not North Korea. "Happiness Through Work"?</p>
<p>Logos: I don't see how any of us have been arrogant. We are stating that sometimes it works well, which is all we want people to recognize. It's insulting to be put in a group called "You're all anti-social dumb***<em>s" which is what several people in this thread have basically done. You aren't attacking THEIR examples of anti-social kids, but you attack our examples of well-adjusted kids from a homeschooling environment? Why? Because we're the easier side to go after? Sure, getting into a top university doesn't *necessarily</em> mean anything -- but neither does the blown up claim that "some dude on the internet has only known weird homeschoolers, and therefore all homeschoolers must be weird because He Says So." Why don't you demand suitable evidence from the traditional schoolers?</p>
<p>Oh. Because, when it comes to human beings, YOU CAN'T. Examples of norms + examples of individuals are all we can go on in psychology. We base a huge amount of psychology on theories based on variable groups of people and their averages. Maybe homeschoolers, on average, are idiots. Maybe they aren't. Maybe our proverbial study-takers here simply haven't noticed the "normal" ones. And maybe you shouldn't get annoyed when people step forward and offer themselves as case studies.</p>
<p>Well I personally am against homeschooling. I'm sure for some people it works fine, but for the majority of homeschoolers, there is a lack of structure, instruction, and interaction with peers. Has anyone ever seen "Wife Swap" or "Trading Spouses"? Often times they have children on there who are WAY below the intelligence level they should be at and are unmotivated and unfocused. It looks like a joke. One has to have an extremely high rate of self-determination to actually achieve in situations like that. The reason why so few homeschooled people on here have anything to say about it is because these people are exceptions and are smart...I'm sure the majority of homeschooled kids are still sleeping right now, seeing as it is a school day.</p>
<p>**One wife swap or trading houses the kids are homeschooled</p>
<p>Oh, yeah, I'm sure most college-educated people form their opinions about social policy by watching reality TV shows. </p>
<p>/irony</p>
<p>maributt, I'm shocked.</p>
<p>if that's your real opinion....</p>
<p>it is absolutely essential for kids to get out into the world and formulate their own value system, with assistance from family, friends, school, and life in general. parents that pretend like their beliefs are the only valid ones simply brainwash their children and deprive them of the rich childhood everyone deserves.</p>
<p>it is essential for every person to learn to challenge what they are taught and told, and to experiance as many different perspectives as possible. that's simply not possible in a homeschool environment.</p>
<p>"that's simply not possible in a homeschool environment."</p>
<p>There is no such thing as one homeschool environment. I recognize that many homeschool environments are not good, but there are certainly <em>some</em> that include learning to challenge what they are taught and told as well as experiencing different perspectives. Maybe it's the minority. I don't honestly know. But I know that it does SOMETIMES include those things, and it's unfair to say it's impossible across the board. Some homeschoolers actually believe their situation has exposed them to more diversity than a traditional school environment, and if they say that's the situation they experience, we should believe those particular people until they prove otherwise.</p>
<p>i don't like being judged like some caged animal by spectators - a homeschooler is (in most cases) a mentally sound person just like you.</p>
<p>when i insist that homeschooling has been immensely good for me, i'm not an insane person, convinced of his sanity - i have struggled with it just as many struggle with public schooling.</p>
<p>i'm also not the product of conniving parents eager to carbon copy their worldviews onto their spawn - my parents want the best for me, just like everyone else's. </p>
<p>on another note: i've summarized the arguments for and against homeschooling thus far so that you'll stop repeating things hopefully:</p>
<p>On the side of: Homeschooling should be banned and the children taken to foster homes: (several arguments were repeated)
-It keeps them from having real school friends and teacher friends
-It's tougher and require much determination (could go either way) x 2
-They should have a choice (i.e. they should be able to experience both, then choose) x 2
-Friggin weird + no social skills whatsoever/Social retardation x countless
-Shelter from non-Christian ideas instead of free exchange of ideas x 4
-Can't possibly know more than a teacher about what you should learn
-Life interaction can't be taught at home
-"Unefficient" + Closing eyes to reality
-Brainwashing
-They tattle / are offended by PG-13 movies
-They are arrogant and use ad hominem arguments
-WAY below normal intelligence levels - the smart ones are exceptions...</p>
<p>alright, i'm not summarizing the other side...</p>
<p>to tell you the truth, these arguments seem very stupid after reading all of them</p>
<p>Logos, did you read your post before you pressed the send button?</p>
<p>"I don't suppose anyone here can grasp this, but just maybe, getting into a top university doesn't really suggest any semblance of intellect."</p>
<p>"Really, ad hominem (a fallacy that attacks the person rather than the issue at hand) isn't the way to go."</p>
<p>Didn't you just attack a whole group of people at the start of your post and end it with an admonotion not to use personal attacks? ;)</p>
<p>Yes, I believe many people believe that getting into a top university does, in fact, suggest a "semblance of intellect." And whoever said USNews was the "leading authority"? It is, however, something most people on this post are familiar with. Perhaps, I should have cited a Newsweek article showing the higher performance of homeschoolers on standardized test scores and success in college.</p>
<p>high test scores do not a scholar make.</p>
<p>Mohuohu, I don't understand your point. Where does it say that high test scores make a "scholar"? I assume you are using the definition of "scholar" as a "learned person." Can you expound on your point?</p>
<p>I think he means that test scores don't always correctly measure a person's intellectual ability. Some average people can get phenomenal scores, while those who are very bright academically may get average scores, but it doesn't necessarily gauge their true academic potential.</p>
<p>I wish I had homeschooled my daughter for the first few years, Kindergarten through third or fourth grade. She had a fabulous 5th grade teacher that I'm so glad she didn't miss, but before that, she would not have missed anything positive that I can think of in our public school. I have a teaching credential(K-8) myself, and she was several grades ahead academically, which actually made her classroom experience more difficult- and often very frustrating- than it would have been had she been a more typical kid. I didn't have the courage to take her out, as I listened to people telling me she'd miss out on the social skills. But there were many days - more than I care to remember- where her early classroom experience actually did her harm. She really didn't like school very much until high school, when her intense focus and independent learning style became an asset. Those first few years were so anxiety producing for her, and it was all so unnecessary. </p>
<p>I certainly understand why people homeschool their kids. I believe that most parents, if they are caring and intelligent, know what's in their child's best interest. If they listen to their child and their gut, they are usually right about what setting is most appropriate.</p>
<p>It's my bedtime, so I am not going to step into this mess--except to say the following:</p>
<p>At my high school there are--or have been in recent years--5 students who are either attending top-5 universities, have been accepted by said universities, or are of the academic and personal caliber for acceptance to etc. etc. The rest of the students, except for maybe two, will do the exact same thing for college as everyone else (ie, apply to Western WA University or--if they're feeling really adventurous--UW), or they won't go to college at all. (Only 40% of graduates of my high school go on to a four-year college.) </p>
<p>And... of the five stellar students, all of them were homeschooled for much of their school careers. They are unique, memorable people... maybe "friggin weird," by some people's standards, but very interesting and interested in many things. And they're all very nice, too. And social. </p>
<p>I know that there are some disfunctional (by my standards) homeschool situations, but it's certainly and entirely the parents' fault, not that of the institution of homeschooling.</p>
<p>I'm not a homeschooler, but most of the homeschoolers I know are perfectly normal kids who, for a variety of reasons, were not fitting in with a traditional public school. Most of them blossomed academically and socially once they were removed from the traditional school environment. </p>
<p>However, I do know one homeschooling family that I think chose poorly. They basically chose homeschooling out of fear, and their daughter's anxieties about other people have only increased since they pulled her out of school. I'm not saying her anxiety would decrease if she was in public school, but her parents have acknowledged and condoned the idea that other people are scary with their actions.</p>
<p>Some people here are making the argument that homeschooling = Brilliant children because they happen to know one person who was homeschooled and ended up at a prestigious university. Well, my question to you all is how do you know they wouldn't of flourished just as much in a public school or private school setting? Do you have anything to compare it to? If they were only homeschooled how do you know they wouldn't have done just as well in a public school setting? Often times, people who are smart will thrive in whatever setting they are placed in whether it is homeschooling, private school or public school. I think people are underestimating innate intelligence. Yes, some of your intelligence is learned but there is also innate intelligence; people who are smart will be able to advance themselves in whatever educational setting they find themselves in.</p>
<p>Also, to the person who said they start school late and end around noon, are you kidding me? How is getting a couple hours of schooling a day adequate? Also, that definitely isn't preparing you for the real world where you will have to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day.</p>
<p>In the same regard, there are people posting on this thread that home-schooled = social retards because they happen to know of one such case. It works both ways. And again, we shouldn't make generalizations about anyone.</p>
<p>My children started out in public school so I've seen the difference myself over the years. There is definately an improvement in standardized tests scores since home-schooling - for the younger one, it was a huge improvement. </p>
<p>But kids can do well in all environments: public, private and home-educated. We shouldn't make generalizations because generalizations are false - no one system is really "better" than the others. Each case is individual. </p>
<p>Home-schooling works for us - it gives our kids more time to work on projects that interest them and allows them to pursue many academic interests that they otherwise would not be able to (at least not on the same level ). But I continue to be amazed by how many people seemly are threatened by the idea of someone else's kid choosing a different path. Seriously, what's up with that?</p>
<p>burgian06, I'm the person who said, "I loved waking up late and starting in my pajamas and finishing generally around noon." I never said I started school later than others... I just didn't have to get dressed, ride the bus for 45 minutes and I took my shower, etc. later in the day. I spent about 3 1/2 hours per day on "school work" and was ahead of my peers. We worked through a full comprehensive program covering all subjects. </p>
<p>You just don't realize how much of the 7 hours of regular school is spent on issues unrelated to core learning (time between classes, lunch, discipline issues, teaching to a group takes longer than one-on-one, "Buelller, Bueller" roll taking, lining up for activities, etc.) In short, I accomplished more than my peers in 1/2 the time and my schooling was more than adequate. I would bet that most kids don't spend much more than 3 1/2 hours per day on pure school when you take all these things into account. </p>
<p>What's more, I had time to pursue other interests such as reading, working on special projects and extracurricular activities (such as sports and music lessons). I also had a very active social life.</p>
<p>I returned to regular school in 8th grade, so I really don't think it is important to learn how to spend 8 hours a day in the real world before then. I spend more than that each day studying and going to class in college. Most young kids simply don't have the attention span to stay focused in a classroom environment all day long. That's why they have breaks, recess, off topic films, discipline issues, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But I continue to be amazed by how many people seemly are threatened by the idea of someone else's kid choosing a different path. Seriously, what's up with that?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Aside from the fact that people often feel defensive about their own choices (which automatically makes anything different an attack), I worry that people who pull out of public schooling will at some point start asking why they should be paying to educate other people's kids. I'm happy to pay for an educated population, I can't imagine that if we shift the burden of paying for education on individual families that it will get LESS expensive, and then of course there will be an even vaster difference in the education received by people in different classes. So I don't feel personally threatened by homeschooling, but I do see a potential threat to the future of education for those at the bottom end of the economic ladder.</p>
<p>The sample size is too small and perspectives are definitely limited. The site is called: College Confidential. You'd think by scouring these forums that everybody has a 4.0 and has trouble deciding between Princeton or Harvard. My point is, anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight, especially in a forum that only the educationally adept partake in.</p>
<p>I think home schooling is fine as long as it isn't forced upon the child or done for religious indoctrination.</p>